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"Spreading democracy, by any means necessary"

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
1
0
link:

The island of Diego Garcia, in the Indian Ocean, was home to hundreds of people: former slaves that had been there since the 1800s. Britain forcibly removed these people in the 1960s to make way for the construction of a United States military air base. That base is now being used to spread freedom and democracy in Iraq.
:disgust:
 

GoodToGo

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
3,516
1
0
Freedom 101: Freeing one group of people means the removal of another group of people.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Ok, first of all, according to that web-site, it sounds like it was the UK, not the US, that treated the people of that island like crap after removing them from the island.

Second of all, this was 40 years ago and a very different time in the world. It was the height of the Cold War after all.

If this were to happen today, these people would at the very least get Jesse Jackson led protests and heavy compensation.
 

GoodToGo

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
3,516
1
0
Originally posted by: Queasy
Ok, first of all, according to that web-site, it sounds like it was the UK, not the US, that treated the people of that island like crap after removing them from the island.

Second of all, this was 40 years ago and a very different time in the world. It was the height of the Cold War after all.

If this were to happen today, these people would at the very least get Jesse Jackson led protests and heavy compensation.
Obviously USA and UK could play god in the cold war
And also, the US very well knew why UK was removing these people and yet did not do naything about it. So dont put all the balme on UK.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
2
0
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally a French colony.....
Actually, originally, it was just an island in the middle of the Indian Ocean with its own native people, the Nolackashackinup.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
1
76
The Portuguese explored Diego Garcia in the 1500s; between 1814 and 1965 it was a dependency of Mauritius. It then became part of the Chagos Archipelago, which belonged to the newly created British Indian Ocean Territory. The island remains a British dependency today.

Although Diego Garcia once had a small indigenous population, the inhabitants, known as the Ilois, were moved to Mauritius in the 1970s so that the island could be turned into a military base?over the strong protestations of other Indian Ocean islands, who objected to having cruise missles as neighbors.


Diego Garcia is a 17 square mile piece of sand and coral, Mauritius is close to 800 square miles, has 5 airports and is fertile...Your point is?
 

NightTrain

Platinum Member
Apr 1, 2001
2,150
0
76
Someone needs to decide if this can be used to denigrate the US. If not, we can move on to something else that can.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: NightTrain
Someone needs to decide if this can be used to denigrate the US. If not, we can move on to something else that can.

I agree, let's get back to the droping of bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those are also good for some good old-fashioned America bashing.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,089
12
76
fobot.com
have you ever talked to anyone that has been to Diego Garcia ?

it isn't a duty station that people ask for (well except somebody that wants to speed up their career by taking a sh!tty assignment)

its a speck in the middle of the ocean

what was the point of this thread? that democratic nations are evil because a few hundred people lost their island?
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,434
84
91
I can go back in history and find a case where virtually every country has done something wrong. And that was 40 yers ago. Do some research, it was a crazy time where two nuclear superpowers had the attitude that they would be tangling with each other in the near future.

Thats the past. The future affords us the opportunity to not make those same mistakes.
 

joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
12,340
1
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
have you ever talked to anyone that has been to Diego Garcia ?

it isn't a duty station that people ask for (well except somebody that wants to speed up their career by taking a sh!tty assignment)

its a speck in the middle of the ocean

what was the point of this thread? that democratic nations are evil because a few hundred people lost their island?
I'm not sure, but I think that the intention is to point out one of the "ironies" or contradictions of this war. I feel sorry for those people, but I've seen so much worse.

Also, it'd be a refreshing change if Americans (and the British, etc) do admit that they did do a lot sh*t that deserve bashing around the world.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,089
12
76
fobot.com
ok, on behalf of america, the USA is just as evil as everybody else

we had slavery until 1860's
we wiped out american indians in huge numbers and stole their land
we dropped two nuclear weapons on japan and killed tens of thousands of civilians

we are really evil too

----

i still think we need to defend our country from foreign aggressors
 

joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
12,340
1
0
Originally posted by: rudder
I can go back in history and find a case where virtually every country has done something wrong. And that was 40 yers ago. Do some research, it was a crazy time where two nuclear superpowers had the attitude that they would be tangling with each other in the near future.

Thats the past. The future affords us the opportunity to not make those same mistakes.
You see, that's exactly the kind of attitude people around the world despise. You don't even sound much sorry for those people harmed from American atrocities and simply dismiss it as a result of tense international politics, or because everybody at some point in history did it.

I support the war on Iraq at this point because a quick victory would result in minimum casualties. I thought that the years of Clinton resembled more as a movement away from making those past mistakes. This war is about removing one of the potential threats to the US mainly in the interests of the American people, but under the name of removing an oppressive, authoritarian regime.

*** And now somebody will start calling me names, right? Remember the forum rules at least and point me to flaws in my arguments, but do not judge me as a whole based one post. This post only pointed out the negative aspects of America based on what I understand. It does not mean I do not appreciate many positive contributions America made to this world.

Edit: grammar
 

joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
12,340
1
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
ok, on behalf of america, the USA is just as evil as everybody else

we had slavery until 1860's
we wiped out american indians in huge numbers and stole their land
we dropped two nuclear weapons on japan and killed tens of thousands of civilians

we are really evil too

----

i still think we need to defend our country from foreign aggressors
Hmm.. did you never learn about anything else or are those 3 events what you consider the most evil-doing of all?

I was more referring to what the Americans did to other countries in the 20th century. I am not sure about slavery and the Indians since "Americans" themselves were much more vaguely defined than they are now.

And as much as I hate nukes, there were some positive aspects to it as well.

I don't mean to portray America as purely evil but I just hoped to see people who take a bit more critical or neutral stance once in a while and reflect back on what happened in the past, including the negative aspects as well.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: joohang
Originally posted by: FoBoT
have you ever talked to anyone that has been to Diego Garcia ?

it isn't a duty station that people ask for (well except somebody that wants to speed up their career by taking a sh!tty assignment)

its a speck in the middle of the ocean

what was the point of this thread? that democratic nations are evil because a few hundred people lost their island?
I'm not sure, but I think that the intention is to point out one of the "ironies" or contradictions of this war. I feel sorry for those people, but I've seen so much worse.

Also, it'd be a refreshing change if Americans (and the British, etc) do admit that they did do a lot sh*t that deserve bashing around the world.
We do admit it but you must also admit that the way many of those actions are portrayed are out of context and listed on this board solely as bashing with no relevance to the subject under discussion. I find it strange that American and British mistakes are constantly portrayed on this board but you hardly ever hear of the mistakes of other countries. If the goal is to learn from the past then why are they also not mentioned?

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
2
0
Originally posted by: etech

We do admit it but you must also admit that the way many of those actions are portrayed are out of context and listed on this board solely as bashing with no relevance to the subject under discussion. I find it strange that American and British mistakes are constantly portrayed on this board but you hardly ever hear of the mistakes of other countries. If the goal is to learn from the past then why are they also not mentioned?
Just look to the original poster. 'nuff said.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
1
0
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: joohang
Originally posted by: FoBoT
have you ever talked to anyone that has been to Diego Garcia ?

it isn't a duty station that people ask for (well except somebody that wants to speed up their career by taking a sh!tty assignment)

its a speck in the middle of the ocean

what was the point of this thread? that democratic nations are evil because a few hundred people lost their island?
I'm not sure, but I think that the intention is to point out one of the "ironies" or contradictions of this war. I feel sorry for those people, but I've seen so much worse.

Also, it'd be a refreshing change if Americans (and the British, etc) do admit that they did do a lot sh*t that deserve bashing around the world.
We do admit it but you must also admit that the way many of those actions are portrayed are out of context and listed on this board solely as bashing with no relevance to the subject under discussion. I find it strange that American and British mistakes are constantly portrayed on this board but you hardly ever hear of the mistakes of other countries. If the goal is to learn from the past then why are they also not mentioned?
American and British mistakes have often never been paid for, and in many cases not even recognized. Any time any other country makes a mistake, the world community is almost sure to bring consequences upon them. By the way, notice that I didn't start this thread with any commentary or "America bashing," only provided a link to an interesting perspective.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
1
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
have you ever talked to anyone that has been to Diego Garcia ?

it isn't a duty station that people ask for (well except somebody that wants to speed up their career by taking a sh!tty assignment)

its a speck in the middle of the ocean

what was the point of this thread? that democratic nations are evil because a few hundred people lost their island?
That arrogance is what makes people have hatred towards, and generalize about, American citizens. Is that what you wish to perpetuate? It's a small island, who cares. They don't produce anything worthy, who cares.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
1
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
ok, on behalf of america, the USA is just as evil as everybody else

we had slavery until 1860's
we wiped out american indians in huge numbers and stole their land
we dropped two nuclear weapons on japan and killed tens of thousands of civilians

we are really evil too

----

i still think we need to defend our country from foreign aggressors
Agreed, but when we champion ourselves as the sole protector of democracy and justice throughout the world, people should know that that is a load of crap; looking at our past record just about anyone in the world can see that we have not always (or even often) fulfilled the image we set for ourselves as righteous protectors of disenfranchised and oppressed peoples of the world; in fact, we have often been the reason for that disenfranchisement and oppression.
 

bigdog1218

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2001
1,674
1
0
They don't produce anything worthy, who cares.
Bingo, I say this many times but no one seems to listen, Capitalism rules this country not democracy, Operation Iraqi Freedom sounds nice, but just the fact that American companies, and other companies from France Germany are lining up and already arguing about who gets what just shows you what makes this war really important.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,434
84
91
Originally posted by: joohang
Originally posted by: rudder
I can go back in history and find a case where virtually every country has done something wrong. And that was 40 yers ago. Do some research, it was a crazy time where two nuclear superpowers had the attitude that they would be tangling with each other in the near future.

Thats the past. The future affords us the opportunity to not make those same mistakes.
You see, that's exactly the kind of attitude people around the world despise. You don't even sound much sorry for those people harmed from American atrocities and simply dismiss it as a result of tense international politics, or because everybody at some point in history did it.


Edit: grammar
A funny thing about history, you can't really change it now can you. I don't recall you asking about my feelings on the matter. I guess I should still be pissed at the British who killed all of those colonists when they wanted to start their own country in 1775.
 

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