Spontaneous Reboots

[jough]

I've recently built my own micro ATX system from buying parts over the internet. I had bad luck the first time with my Aspire X-QPack case shorting out at the power switch, and the ASUS board I got (Asus A8N-VM CSM) was also bad. Ugh.

I finally got a return QPack case, and instead of getting another ASUS board I went with the MSI K8NGM2-FID. I followed renethx's setup instructions to the T, including setting up Cool and Quiet to spin the CPU fan down when not under load (it seems to be working great - the CPU doesn't go over 40-41C even when the CPU utilisation is close to 100%).

When Windows XP Pro came up for the first time I had a reboot while I was typing the name of the first user.

After that I get random reboots ever so often, sometimes while installing something, and sometimes just when the computer is mostly idle and I'm just reading a web page. The only thing I can do to ALWAYS make it fail is to run a game. Half-Life 2, Max Payne 2, and Quake 4 all fail within about 5-10 minutes and the PC just beeps like I pushed the reset button and starts rebooting.

I thought the CPU may be overheating, but I can encode video (DVD to Xvid) and the processor never goes much above 35C. It also hasn't failed yet while encoding video.

The box passed memtest and I ran the Seagate drive utility and no drive errors either.

The 12v rail is reporting as around 13.04 (average) in the MSI PC Alert 4 application, which is the only warning I get from it.

So I suspect the power supply - but it also could be the board. Or the case shorting again (although I can't make it reboot by bumping or tapping on the case like I could with the first QPack case that I RMAed). Or the CPU. How do I tell?



My specs:

Aspire X-Qpack Case (black, no clear panels, stock PSU, big 120mm noisy but very cooling fan)
Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (Manchester)
MSI K8NGM2-FID Motherboard
A-Data 2x1Gb DDR400 PC3200 RAM
Seagate Barracuda 7800.9 250Gb SATA II HD
Benq Lightscribe DVD+/-RW DL Burner
ViewSonic va1912wb Display (1440x900 res.)

 

[LiLithTecH]

13.04v for the +12v rail is to high (12%).
Motherboard sensors are not typically accurate though.

What voltage do you have the ram set to (should be 2.7v)?
(A-Data would not be my first choice for ram....)

You can also quiet the noisy 120mm by running it @5v instaed of 12v.

 

[jough]

Well, I bought a new power supply at CompUSA and installed it. Everything booted right up, I checked the PC Alert 4 and the voltages looked okay. Everything was running cool and fine. I was surfing the web a bit, burned a CD, did some other things, and then tried to transcode an mpeg video into xvid.

At around 5% in (less than 2 minutes) the screen froze - no cursor movement, etc. So I powered down. Then the computer wouldn't POST. It powered on, spun the fans, the hard drive clicked, but the speaker didn't beep and the screen didn't light. Oh no.

So I put the old PSU back in and I had the same symptoms.

This whole process is depressing me.

Did the new PSU fry something, or is there some other problem I could be overlooking? I checked all of the plugs and even tried to unplug everything from the board but the CPU/HS/Fan, and memory. Still no go.

 

[LiLithTecH]

You didn't answer the question about the ram voltage.

You also may want to try resetting the CMOS to get it to power up.

 

[jough]

I unplugged everything, pushed the CMOS reset button, plugged everything back in, and it powers up now.

I'm still getting the spontaneous reboots, though.

I didn't set the ram voltage at all. I don't even know if it's possible with this motherboard/bios.

Also, I can't control the fan speed or voltage with the BIOS.

Right now I'm wondering if I should return the motherboard for a replacement, or if something else is the problem. I can't believe that two different power supplies would be bad.

 

[LiLithTecH]

Its possible and required for you to set the Ram voltage.
(the default is 2.5v, the A-Data modules require 2.7v)

Are the Ram modules Single or Double-sided - chips on 1 side or two)?
How do you have the modules installed (Dimm1-3, Dimm 2-4, etc)?

 

[jough]

The RAM passed memtest86, and the sticks worked in another machine. They're double-sided with aluminum heat dissipators on them and I have them installed in the proper slots for Dual Channel mode. I am reasonably certain that the problem isn't with the RAM, although I could certainly be convinced.

I'll check the voltage in the BIOS and see what it's set to. The booklet that came with the RAM said it "Suggest setting the voltage on 2.6 +/- 0.1V"

Okay, it was already set to 2.6V.

 

[jough]

Okay, well, I raised the RAM voltage to 2.7V, and now I can't make it cause a reboot - I've only been up and running for about 20 minutes, so it's too early yet to tell, but that was it, I owe you a beer, my friend.

Quick question: the mobo manual says that it's dangerous to change the memory voltage "Adjusting the DDR voltage can increase the DDR speed. Any changes made to this setting may cause a stability issue, so changing the DDR voltage for long-term purpose is NOT recommended." (bolding and italics theirs)

Also, the BIOS the settings for the DDR voltage put grey as the default (which is 2.55v) and white for "safe voltages." It stays white up through 2.65v. At 2.7V, it turns yellow to signify High Performance.

My question is: is it dangerous to leave the voltage up at 2.7v? I figure if it's solving my reboot problem it should be okay, but I'm nervous about this entire box now that I've had so many problems with it.

Thanks again for your replies.

 

[Tobolo]

What version of Windows XP are you running (SP1/2?)

 

[jough]

I'm running Windows XP Pro SP2.

Everything ran great for two hours, then, in my hubris, I decided to enable Cool and Quiet. The CnQ worked, but about a half an hour in I got another reboot.

Turning off Cool and Quiet made the system stable once again (so far - running about three hours straight now, playing Half-Life 2 and re-encoding DVDs to watch on my PDA).

I don't know why CnQ would cause the system to reboot, though. I could hear the fan spin up and the system runs around 40-45C at high CPU utilisation.

 

[Tobolo]

Thats interesting, i've never really dealt with CnQ. Can you disable it through the bios? This is something that might be a cause of a problem I'm having.

 

[jough]

You can disable it in the bios, even if you have the driver installed in Windows. Also, I set my power management settings back to "Home/Office Desk" just in case.

There's another application that people have recommended to set up speed-stepping and multiplier management for Athlon 64/X2 processors, but I haven't tried that one yet.

I've been up and running for six hours now, with heavy gaming (you know, for testing ) and video compressing, and have not had one reboot so far.

I'm going to be cautiously optimistic for the next week or so to see if I can get through a whole day or two without a spontaneous reboot, but I'm breathing a little easier now, and will probably get a decent video card soon. I just wanted to make sure this system was stable first.

I think rather than Cool and Quiet I'll be looking into a cooler and quieter hardware solution. I don't really care about the quiet (not too much, anyway) but keeping this little case cool is a priority. I just want my system to be stable and reliable. So no overclocking or anything like that for me - I just want to make sure I can get work done without having the PC decide to reboot when I'm in the middle of typing something.

One thing I've noticed is that after the CPU runs hot (40-45C) due to a load, it takes a LONG time to come back down to ~30C again. Right now I've just been web surfing and writing email - not CPU intensive tasks by any means, after playing Half-Life 2 for a half an hour, and it's still 36C.

Maybe my temperature expectations are too great - I've never really been so intent on monitoring every little thing on a PC before. I just want to keep an eye on temperatures and voltages so I can see if there's still a problem or not. Hopefully I won't have to be as skittish about system performance, but I will probably want to replace the stock power supply and fans. The QPack is nice looking, and pretty roomy for such a small system, but it doesn't leave a lot of room for extra cooling, so I want to maximize the amount of cooling I can give this thing.

 

[LiLithTecH]

Just how COOL do you think the CPU runs?
It consumes 89W @idle.

 

[jough]

Well, "cool" being relative. I wouldn't want to touch it at 60C. But as cool as I can get the inside of the case to be the better, no?

 

[Tobolo]

Sent you a pm!