Spinal Manipulation May Be Useless - or Worse

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Perhaps some of you don't realize that there are two different groups under the term chiropractic care...

One group believes that all illnesses are due to things being out of alignment, etc. That group = quacks.

The other group simply puts things back the way they're supposed to be. While I see some of you claiming "placebo effect" - sure, I'll buy that argument some of the time. But, why would you insist the "placebo effect" is the cause for other benefits, such as an increase in the range of motion?

And, for the placebo effect to work, doesn't the person have to believe that the treatment is going to help? I went to a chiropractor for chronic neck pain and headaches. (I was rear-ended in 2 different car accidents that were probably the cause) At that time, I thought they were complete quacks, but figured that since insurance would cover the costs, why not give it a try. I've been largely headache free since those 2 or 3 visits. My wife, who would massage my neck, has noticed that a bulge at the top of my neck is gone (I had grown so used to it being there that I thought it was a normal part of the spine or something... it was a small muscle that was in a tight ball)

A couple of years later, I went to the same guy for back pain, figuring "what the heck." He did nothing for it. In his words, "I'm pretty certain it's just muscular, not skeletal. But, I aligned your right hip for you."

Winna Winna Chicken Dinna

 

[OutHouse]

if i start to have daily headaches i will go to the chiro around the corner from my office and get my back and neck cracked. my headaches are instantly gone and will stay gone for over a month. having my neck cracked feels wonderful expecially when it melts the headache away.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Amused
I've been trying to tell people for years that chiropractors are, by and large, quacks.

I had a good laugh when I recently pulled a muscle in my lower back with all the recommendations to go see a quack. WTF can he do for a pulled muscle? Nothing, of course, except take my money and offer me a truck load of quack advice.

Chiropractors are very close to a cult. Just look at how insulted people get when you expose their quackery.

Your extreme close-mindedness on certain subjects is quite Amusing.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Worked great for me so he can STFU.

repeat after me: placebo effect.

Now that I think about it, what's you're point??
Even if it was 100% the placebo effect, that doesn't discredit it a bit.
Furthermore, modern medicine doesn't even understand the mechanisms of the placebo effect.

Here's an example: (someone else can google to make sure I've got the details correct)
Patient is on morphine for a few days to relieve extreme pain.
Patient is in pain again and needs his shot of morphine.
Patient is given a shot of saline.
Pain goes away. Placebo effect.

Patient is on morphine.
Patient is in pain again and needs his shot of morphine.
Patient is given a shot of morphine. Pain goes away. Patient is then unknowingly given a drug that acts specifically to block the morphine from working. Pain returns.

Patient is on morphine
Patient is in pain again and needs his shot of morphine.
Patient is given a placebo. Pain goes away.
Patient is then unknowingly given a drug that *acts specifically to block the morphine from working*. Placebo stops working - pain returns. wtf.


------------------

Suppose someone comes up with the idea that rubbing carrot juice on your ears would make your hair grow better. Yet the mainstream medical community knows that there's no way it's going to happen. Then, 75% of the people who use this method have more hair growing in... Medical community labels it as "placebo effect." That does not mean that it wasn't effective! It worked - get that through your head. Regardless of the mechanism, it resulted in what the patient wanted.

And, lastly, from one of the quackwatch sites that was linked to by someone above:

Nonetheless, the studies do suggest that chiropractors can play a useful role in treating workers with musculoskeletal problems

 

[Armitage]

I have a cousin who has been out of work for about 9 months now because a chiropractic "adjustment" FUBARed his neck. A few hours after said adjustment he was numb down half his body and had limited used of that side. And in extreme pain. He's making progress now with real doctors & physical therapy, but it's still not good.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Perhaps some of you don't realize that there are two different groups under the term chiropractic care...

One group believes that all illnesses are due to things being out of alignment, etc. That group = quacks.

The other group simply puts things back the way they're supposed to be. While I see some of you claiming "placebo effect" - sure, I'll buy that argument some of the time. But, why would you insist the "placebo effect" is the cause for other benefits, such as an increase in the range of motion?

And, for the placebo effect to work, doesn't the person have to believe that the treatment is going to help? I went to a chiropractor for chronic neck pain and headaches. (I was rear-ended in 2 different car accidents that were probably the cause) At that time, I thought they were complete quacks, but figured that since insurance would cover the costs, why not give it a try. I've been largely headache free since those 2 or 3 visits. My wife, who would massage my neck, has noticed that a bulge at the top of my neck is gone (I had grown so used to it being there that I thought it was a normal part of the spine or something... it was a small muscle that was in a tight ball)

A couple of years later, I went to the same guy for back pain, figuring "what the heck." He did nothing for it. In his words, "I'm pretty certain it's just muscular, not skeletal. But, I aligned your right hip for you."

Winna Winna Chicken Dinna

Indeed.

I was a sceptical f0cker also.

I had a back injury and I wanted to get myself fixed. I had left myself for 3-4 weeks to see if I would get better on my own without training etc. Nothing. Saw a Chiro and he DE FINATELY increase my ROM. Prior injury I'm one of the most supply person you will meet. After injury I was about 14inches from touching the dam floor. After 9 sessions I could touch the floor again.

Still injured though but SLOWLY recovering 🙁.

Chiros can read MRI's in Osteopaths can't. This is what I believe to be the 'standard' case in England. Not sure about other countries Chiro's and Osteopaths.

Got my MRI and the Chiro could read it. He was straight with mea nd with my level of injury and improvement he told me he couldn't give me any better improvements. This y ounger Consultant s from the hospital is pushing for back surgery which by and large is VERY VERY IFFY at best.

I'm going to stop seeing the Osteopath as I'm not seeing any improvements. My back is 'somehow' healing itself and not causing pain to the degree that I want to saw my f0cking leg off...

I can't speak for all Chiro's but the one I had DEFINATLEY helped me out a lot. Others may be full of sh!t and kept me coming but I'm not stupid. The Chiro was level with me all the time and didn't give me crazy gurantees

Koing

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Armitage
I have a cousin who has been out of work for about 9 months now because a chiropractic "adjustment" FUBARed his neck. A few hours after said adjustment he was numb down half his body and had limited used of that side. And in extreme pain. He's making progress now with real doctors & physical therapy, but it's still not good.

Huh?
He's numb and in extreme pain? Aren't the two sort of, mutually exclusive?

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Armitage
I have a cousin who has been out of work for about 9 months now because a chiropractic "adjustment" FUBARed his neck. A few hours after said adjustment he was numb down half his body and had limited used of that side. And in extreme pain. He's making progress now with real doctors & physical therapy, but it's still not good.

Huh?
He's numb and in extreme pain? Aren't the two sort of, mutually exclusive?

His neck was/is in extreme pain, he was numb & had limited mobility down the rest of a side of his body.

 

[Aquaman]

I've been going to my Chiro for 3 years (I get 10 free visits a year 🙂. He's helped me with my misaligned pelvis (from sitting at my desk too long) and my carpal tunnel 🙂

He's not one of those guys that think they can cure the flu or allergies.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[AbAbber2k]

Chiropractics are a temporary solution to a serious longterm problem and can (not always will) actually make the problem worse over time. It's not "bs" as one poster so eloquently put it. Any time you're pushing a joint or disc or whatever back into position, you're probably doing close to the same amount of damage that it slipping out of place already did because it's still an unnatural motion.

My father has a pretty messed up back from being in the sheet metal industry for X number of years. He's been seeing a Chiro, Osteopath and various other doctors for some time. Just quit the chiro and hasn't been back. He said that the Chiro would make him feel great right after the session, but there were no real long term benefits. Gee no kidding.

Personally I would never use chiropractics.

 

[WiseOldDude]

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Worked great for me so he can STFU.

Ditto, I went from barely being able to walk, leg and foot ached and half numb. Three weeks of 3 time a week 'adjustments' and there was a huge huge difference. Continued for about 4 months, and the cure was permentate.

Taking a bath is also dangerous........

Thus like previous instructed STFU

 

[Adul]

a good chiro willdo wonders if you have issues. a bad one will fubar you up. Just like doctors. and everything else.

Also there is a new method that does not crack your back and neck. It is more precise method of adjustment and certainly more confortable.

 

[Ultralight]

I've been seeing a chiro for 8+ years and he has done wonders for my back. No quack whatsoever and he'll be the first to tell you that the body needs to do the healing. No one can do that for you. He'll also be the first to tell you that exercise and diet are absolutely essential as well as physical therapy if need be.

Are there bad chiros? Absolutely. But how about all the the quack MDs out there. I guarantee you that if we started a thread on woeful MDs and their practices we'd get a boat load of replies.


Too many MDs place way too much emphasis on chemical answers (can you say pill?) as if that was the end all. Let's not even go to the side effects where often the cure is worse than the symptoms.

 

[computeerrgghh]

I can crack my own back, I hope I don't do anything bad 😉
As for hip alignments... shouldn't an orthopedic doctor or osteopath take care of something like that?

 

[mercanucaribe]

From Wikipedia:

Chiropractic was founded by Daniel David Palmer in Davenport, Iowa, USA. He said he received the chiropractic principles from a dead physician, Dr. Jim Atkinson, during a seance.[7] [8] Palmer?s son, B. J. Palmer initiated research, development and promotion of chiropractic.

DD Palmer's effort to find a single cause for all disease led him to say A subluxated vertebra . . . is the cause of 95 percent of all diseases. . . . The other five percent is caused by displaced joints other than those of the vertebral column.

Quack quack!

 

[TBone48]

I have 2 herniated disks which recently "acted up" on me.I couldn't get an appointment with my back dr so my physical therapist recommended a chiropractor. After 2 visits I could walk upright and was in much less pain. I had never been to one before and was skeptical,but no more.

 

[jagec]

Chiropractors are useful for certain ailments, but in the interests of getting paid, some of them claim to cure unrelated things. There are honest ones and dishonest ones.

Doctors can be the same way, FWIW. And when it comes to things like "headaches", and pains that the medical community doesn't fully understand, it's hard to say who's putting on who.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
From Wikipedia:

Chiropractic was founded by Daniel David Palmer in Davenport, Iowa, USA. He said he received the chiropractic principles from a dead physician, Dr. Jim Atkinson, during a seance.[7] [8] Palmer?s son, B. J. Palmer initiated research, development and promotion of chiropractic.

DD Palmer's effort to find a single cause for all disease led him to say A subluxated vertebra . . . is the cause of 95 percent of all diseases. . . . The other five percent is caused by displaced joints other than those of the vertebral column.

Quack quack!

Quack quack also!

I'd say he is a f0cking quack, but the Chiro I saw was knowledgeable and worked wonders for me and for that I am happy.

Koing

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: jagec
Chiropractors are useful for certain ailments, but in the interests of getting paid, some of them claim to cure unrelated things. There are honest ones and dishonest ones.

Doctors can be the same way, FWIW. And when it comes to things like "headaches", and pains that the medical community doesn't fully understand, it's hard to say who's putting on who.

classic, i see a friend of mine at church, he's a physical rehab doctor, i have major spasming in my neck. i ask him, so what should i do, "oh just put a hot pad on it" he says "wait a few days and it goes away".

i guarantee you, a patient comes to see him at his office and he does NOT say the same thing.

to imply that most MD's motivations for practicing is any less money motivated than chiropractors is just an out and out lie.