Speeding Ticket

[Soccerman06]

Title says it, he says i was going 55 in a 25 and had to go "80" to catch up to me. When he got up to me, he said he was going to give me a ticket for 55 (I was in fact going that fast because I thought that was the speed limit, Ill have to go back and look). He told me he had no radar on him, so is there an legal way of getting out of this because he had no exact number on me?

 

[Zenmervolt]

No. Pay the ticket and next time pay more attention to the signs. 55 in a 25 is damn near homicidal. The only places that are 25mph are residential streets. I'm the first person to admit to speeding, but 55 in a residential area is ridiculous.

The speedometers in police cruisers are checked and calibrated. If the officer says that he was going 80 and only slowly reeling you in, then you're essentially screwed. It is valid for an officer to "pace" a car with his own from a distance to determine speed. They do not need a radar unit.

ZV

 

[Blackjack200]

Something doesn't fit here. Why would the officer do 80 in a residential area? Where was this?

 

[Soccerman06]

Its not residential tho, its a corn field surrounded road, only possible residential area is 1/2 mile off a side street, making it a highway if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Blackjack200]

Again, I don't know where it is you're talking about, but I think those kinds of roads are usually 50. Were you able to find where the speed limit was posted? If there was no posted speed limit between where you got on the road and where you were pulled over you might have a defense.

 

[Gillbot]

You sped and got caught. The officer is trained to pick out your speed and doesn't have to use radar, he can do so by speed estimation or pacing.

It is now your job to prove your case in court and get the charge dismissed.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
Its not residential tho, its a corn field surrounded road, only possible residential area is 1/2 mile off a side street, making it a highway if I'm not mistaken.

Odd. That's the first time I've heard of a 25mph limit in a non-residential/commercial area. Any chance there was road construction or something that had a temporary speed limit?

Still, there's no technicality that can get you out of it. You'd need to prove that there was a lack of signage and that you could not have known about the change in speed limit.

ZV

 

[Soccerman06]

Originally posted by: Blackjack200
Again, I don't know where it is you're talking about, but I think those kinds of roads are usually 50. Were you able to find where the speed limit was posted? If there was no posted speed limit between where you got on the road and where you were pulled over you might have a defense.

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Link has a few weird letter combos that wont let me link proper 🙂. Theres a school on 247th Ave between 21st and 23rd St, again roughly half mile away. I went back and checked it was 50, but no where near the 25 he quoted me.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
Its not residential tho, its a corn field surrounded road, only possible residential area is 1/2 mile off a side street, making it a highway if I'm not mistaken.

Odd. That's the first time I've heard of a 25mph limit in a non-residential/commercial area. Any chance there was road construction or something that had a temporary speed limit?

Still, there's no technicality that can get you out of it. You'd need to prove that there was a lack of signage and that you could not have known about the change in speed limit.

ZV

That's not entirely true. The officer would have to pace him for a certain distance (quarter mile?) to conclusively say what speed the OP was going. It's not good enough to say "I had to do 80 to catch up, and it still took me a lot of time, therefore you were going exactly 55.4872 MPH". That said, I wouldn't feel confident enough to pull the Phoenix Wright stuff in court, so I'd talk to the DA, mention that the officer didn't have a radar reading and wasn't pacing you, and say that you're willing to plead guilty to a non-moving violation to avoid the hassle. Bet they'd cut you a deal.

As for the 25mph stuff, it's rare, but I can believe it. There was a 4-lane divided road in the Bay Area that I've been on...concrete barriers on both sides, fair visibility, right off a freeway, yet it's 25mph.

Originally posted by: Gillbot
You sped and got caught. The officer is trained to pick out your speed and doesn't have to use radar, he can do so by speed estimation or pacing.

It is now your job to prove your case in court and get the charge dismissed.

BS. It's VERY hard for a human being to accurately estimate speed from a standstill, and it's darn near impossible when they're accelerating/speeding to catch up. Pacing is a valid method, but they have to maintain a constant distance between themselves and the car they're pacing for a minimum distance for it to be admissable, IIRC.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: jagec
It's VERY hard for a human being to accurately estimate speed from a standstill, and it's darn near impossible when they're accelerating/speeding to catch up. Pacing is a valid method, but they have to maintain a constant distance between themselves and the car they're pacing for a minimum distance for it to be admissable, IIRC.

While I would agree that an estimate of speed isn't going to be spot-on accurate, it's good within 10 mph or so and I don't for one second doubt the officer's ability to tell the difference between 25mph and 55mph.

That said, it sounds like it might be a case of the officer being confused about the speed limit on the road. If the OP can go in and prove that the speed limit is 50 mph, then it's possible that may be enough, when combined with the lack of true pacing, to have the ticket dismissed.

ZV

EDIT: I just noticed that the road seems to cross into the city limits roughly where the OP mentions being pulled over. The city may have him on a technicality if it's like the cities around here. Cities here will sometimes have local ordinances that state that speed limits are 25mph within city limits unless otherwise posted.

 

[Pacfanweb]

First of all, a good lawyer can beat a pacing, Vascar, or estimated speed ticket. All those involve lots of human error, which can make big differences in what speed you're ticketed for. If the cop ran 80 to catch you, there's no way he can tell how fast you were going by how rapidly he was running you down. That's a HUGE target for a good traffic lawyer to zero in on.
He just pulled that 55mph number out of the air.

That said, you were admittedly speeding. The cop knows you were speeding, too...but what he doesn't know is how fast you were going, and him just making up a number will at the very least set you up for getting it reduced.

I'd go back and check the signs to see if you missed one. Cops are human, he might be mistaken.

My experience in traffic court (and I had a lot back in my youth) was, it's a racket. All the DA usually wants if you plead not guilty is to offer you a lesser speed that you'll plead guilty to. (unless it's some blatant, terribly outrageous violation) So around here, if you went in and said "Mr/Ms. DA, no way was I running 55mph. Not guilty", they'll pull you over to the side before you're up and say "is there a possibility you were speeding at all, maybe at say, 35mph?" Since that's much less of a hit on your insurance, most people will agree to plead guilty to that.

Anyway, I suppose that depends on where this happened, and how rural the court system is. If it's some backwoods judge, you might be SOL.
If it's a real court system in a fairly populated area, I'd probably lawyer up and fight it.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
While I would agree that an estimate of speed isn't going to be spot-on accurate, it's good within 10 mph or so and I don't for one second doubt the officer's ability to tell the difference between 25mph and 55mph.

If he was stationary or running in the same direction at a constant speed, I agree. But since the OP probably wasn't stupid enough to pass a much-slower cop car going the same direction, and most cop cars camped at the side of the road are using radar to tag speeders, it seems unlikely that it was one of those situations. If the cop was going the other direction, turned around, and raced to catch up, I'd doubt his estimate a bit more.

But ultimately it's not about how good their estimates are, it's about how much flies in court..and few estimates do.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: ZenmervoltBut ultimately it's not about how good their estimates are, it's about how much flies in court..and few estimates do.

That's my experience, too. The speed estimating is bogus for actually coming up with a number. What it's supposed to be used for is picking out who the officer needs to clock with radar or laser.

As I mentioned before, too much human error....and unless it's a good ol' boy court, a lawyer can make short work of cases like this.

 

[gorobei]

pacing is a legal way of determining speed, but you're supposed to match speed with the suspect and do it for a good distance. The "had to drive 80 to catch up" is not likely department policy/approved. i wouldn't rely on this to get you out of the ticket.

go back and photograph or video the stretch of road you were on and if there is no posted change in speed limit, the traffic court judge may go easy on you. if you were only 5mph over it wont be a huge deal.

it's possible the laws in your state are setup such that speeding over 60 mandates a court appearance by the officer, while an under 60 cite doesn't require him to show up at court. hence the "guestimate" on his part.

 

[cprince]

Soccerman06, your puppy is so cute! What kind is it?

 

[Regs]

Cops drive the roads a lot and it's their jobs. Like when I drive 25 MPH on my local road to my house everyday I know how long it takes to get to point A to point B. If it takes me 20 seconds normally, but for some reason that day I saw some do it in 5 seconds, I knew they were being heavy footed. You can also tell by the braking of the vehicle when it turns.

Like Zenmervolt said, cops don't need radar all the time. Radar is only useful when someone is going 30-35 in a 25...going at least 15 MPH over is a lot easier to spot without radar.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Soccerman06

Originally posted by: Blackjack200
Again, I don't know where it is you're talking about, but I think those kinds of roads are usually 50. Were you able to find where the speed limit was posted? If there was no posted speed limit between where you got on the road and where you were pulled over you might have a defense.

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Link has a few weird letter combos that wont let me link proper 🙂. Theres a school on 247th Ave between 21st and 23rd St, again roughly half mile away. I went back and checked it was 50, but no where near the 25 he quoted me.

Check the aread from where you got on teh road to where you stopped, if it's only posted at 50, then you should be able to get out of this easy.

 

[imported_Baloo]

Important question here, does the info you provide and the links pertain to where you were pulled over, or to where you were when the cop observed your speed?. I think you need to back up here and figure out where you were and how fast you were going when the cop decided to pull you over, rather than where you where when he caught up to you.

 

[Tarrant64]

You might have a defense depending on the road. You would think it's obvious to anyone that going 55 on the road you're on doesn't feel right if it's speed limit is set to 25. I don't really get past 30-35 in a 25 without noticing I'm going way to fast.

 

[Soccerman06]

Originally posted by: Baloo
Important question here, does the info you provide and the links pertain to where you were pulled over, or to where you were when the cop observed your speed?. I think you need to back up here and figure out where you were and how fast you were going when the cop decided to pull you over, rather than where you where when he caught up to you.

He was on one of the side streets, Denver Ave I believe, and "caught up" to me right around the bend on Francis Sites Dr where the speed limit is 25, but on the speed limit on 28th St is 50. So where he ticketed me for speeding was most defininately 50mph yet pulled me over in a 25mph zone where I was going the speed limit. Also said he could convict me for Recklessly Driving because of excessive speeds... yeah.