Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[naad]

I assume no. Also, there's no "congested" GMI links, there's always 1 dedicated link for each CCD. If you're thinking of epyc, the io die on 7002/7003 has 8 links.

You misunderstand, I was saying that if you're gonna add a third chiplet without the I/O die having a third GMI link for said chiplet you'd be effectively congesting the other two links whenever the third chiplet needs to be put to use, which would be catastrophic for performance.
Also I imagine routing would be quite troublesome, I don't think 3 chiplets are possible with the current cIOD.

Also there seems to be more leaks of IF running 1:1 on 6000MHz DDR5, if this is true it would just confirm what I was saying for a while that Raphael is a latency monster.

 

[FangBLade]

So b650e will have better memory OC than x670?

 

[lobz]

You would think that in 2022 they could figure out how to soften latency during asynchronous memory transfers by now.

They know it already. With a different uArch.

 

[lobz]

Yes its very strange Alder and soon to be Raptor lake have to run DDR5 @ gear2 all the time.. Cant boot 4800MT/s gear1 (1:1)

We saw a earlier leak from graymon55 where he wrote 58ns @ 6400MT/s, i wonder if this was in 1:1 or 1:2 mode

https://twitter.com/x/status/1555517933493047296

Totally different cache/memory hierarchy and structure.

 

[Kaluan]

Am drooling over a 7900X3D w/ DDR5-6000CL22-28@1,4v and a RX 7800XT setup, but it's probably way out of my budget.

Anyway, TeamGroup just announced the first AM5-ready DDR5-6000 kit, but from the press release they didn't state latency and voltage at the advertised XMP/EXPO setting.

 

[shady28]

Yes its very strange Alder and soon to be Raptor lake have to run DDR5 @ gear2 all the time.. Cant boot 4800MT/s gear1 (1:1)

We saw a earlier leak from graymon55 where he wrote 58ns @ 6400MT/s, i wonder if this was in 1:1 or 1:2 mode

https://twitter.com/x/status/1555517933493047296

That latency is being beaten regularly on ADL at similar DDR5 speeds. Sub-timing tuning seems to be where it's at on DDR5, so speed/CL alone no longer tells much about latency.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

So b650e will have better memory OC than x670?

Boards with 2 DIMM slots will have better memory OC than boards with 4. It seems like someone has decided that X670 boards are supposed to have 4 slots?

 

[biostud]

Am drooling over a 7900X3D w/ DDR5-6000CL22-28@1,4v and a RX 7800XT setup, but it's probably way out of my budget.

Anyway, TeamGroup just announced the first AM5-ready DDR5-6000 kit, but from the press release they didn't state latency and voltage at the advertised XMP/EXPO setting.

I'm not sure if they will make a 12 core 3D cache CPU.

 

[Thibsie]

I'm not sure if they will make a 12 core 3D cache CPU.

They will "3D cache" any CCD they have, Bergammo first in line IMO.

 

[Saylick]

Box art looks decent at least? Reminds me of the Phenom era with Black Editions.

AMD preparing new packaging for its Ryzen 7000 series - VideoCardz.com

This AMD Ryzen 9 7000 box is soon coming to your local retailer We received a picture featuring alleged Ryzen 7000 CPU packaging. Although we have not been able to confirm this with other sources this picture is allegedly from an internal presentation at AMD. The packaging is for the Ryzen 7000...

videocardz.com

 

[Det0x]

Prices from post above for those who dont want to open link:

Ryzen 7 7700X MSRP = Ryzen 7 5700X MSRP
Ryzen 7 7800X MSRP > Ryzen 7 7800X MSRP
Ryzen 9 7xy0X MSRP > Ryzen 9 5xy0X MSRP

Source: Information that came with the picture



7600x for either 249 or 199 USD i would guess

 

[SteinFG]

They will "3D cache" any CCD they have, Bergammo first in line IMO.

Bergamo is cloud services, 3D cache epyc is compute, they're not overlapping much, so no 3d bergamo i'm 90% sure.

 

[Asterox]

Prices from post above for those who dont want to open link:

Ryzen 7 7700X MSRP = Ryzen 7 5700X MSRP
Ryzen 7 7800X MSRP > Ryzen 7 7800X MSRP
Ryzen 9 7xy0X MSRP > Ryzen 9 5xy0X MSRP

Source: Information that came with the picture

7600x for either 249 or 199 USD i would guess

If AMD cares about the Desktop market, it will price Ryzen 5 7600X under expected price or 200$.Other models can be more expensive.But at least, lets the cheapest model pave the way(alleviate expensive motherboards and ddr5 memory)for the new socket.

 

[Joe NYC]

Am drooling over a 7900X3D w/ DDR5-6000CL22-28@1,4v and a RX 7800XT setup, but it's probably way out of my budget.

Anyway, TeamGroup just announced the first AM5-ready DDR5-6000 kit, but from the press release they didn't state latency and voltage at the advertised XMP/EXPO setting.

Unlikely there will be 7900x3d.

7800x3d almost certain, 7950x3d possible.

 

[Timmah!]

Box art looks decent at least? Reminds me of the Phenom era with Black Editions.

AMD preparing new packaging for its Ryzen 7000 series - VideoCardz.com

This AMD Ryzen 9 7000 box is soon coming to your local retailer We received a picture featuring alleged Ryzen 7000 CPU packaging. Although we have not been able to confirm this with other sources this picture is allegedly from an internal presentation at AMD. The packaging is for the Ryzen 7000...

videocardz.com

View attachment 65615

should have replaced the orange parts with silver or something

 

[Saylick]

should have replaced the orange parts with silver or something

I like the orange because it's been the Zen color for multiple generations now. I actually wish the Zen swirl was orange, too, to match their usual marketing materials.

 

[maddie]

Prices from post above for those who dont want to open link:

Ryzen 7 7700X MSRP = Ryzen 7 5700X MSRP
Ryzen 7 7800X MSRP > Ryzen 7 7800X MSRP
Ryzen 9 7xy0X MSRP > Ryzen 9 5xy0X MSRP

Source: Information that came with the picture

View attachment 65616

7600x for either 249 or 199 USD i would guess

This can't be correct, prices have to be increasing, as I have been told.

 

[igor_kavinski]

This can't be correct, prices have to be increasing, as I have been told.

This is perfect for AMD. If Intel is forced to increase prices and AMD doesn't, more sales for AMD!

 

[nicalandia]

Userbenchmark bitter words.

AMD Ryzen 5 7600X officially tops UserBenchmark CPU average bench chart leading to backhanded compliment from Team Blue bastion

The AMD Ryzen 5 7600X engineering sample that recently appeared on the beleaguered website UserBenchmark has now been placed in the top position in the site’s CPU average bench chart. To acknowledge this somewhat surprising turn of events, the Ryzen 5 7600X and AMD have earned the most...

www.notebookcheck.net

"More likely, AMD’s new architecture is, once again, optimized to shine in specific benchmarks. Realistically, even if Zen 4 only catches Alder Lake in a small handful of real-world workloads, it will be a huge step forward for AMD, and plenty for them to outsell Intel. A few weeks after Zen 4 (est. Sep 15), Intel’s 13th gen. Raptor Lake is also scheduled to launch. Smart shoppers will do well to wait until then, before considering a purchase. Despite AMD’s Neanderthal marketing, it’s hard not to admire the speed of their technical progress. AMD-Raptor-4 and Intel-Zen-13 would be better fitting product names."

 

[RnR_au]

Anyway, TeamGroup just announced the first AM5-ready DDR5-6000 kit, but from the press release they didn't state latency and voltage at the advertised XMP/EXPO setting.

Its on their product page. DDR5-6000 CL48-48-48-96 1.1v

ELITE PLUS U-DIMM DDR5 desktop memory modules

Special heat sink design and high-frequency energy-efficient specification, leading the new generation DDR5 desktop memory

www.teamgroupinc.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

CL48??? Yeck. Ugly bad latency.

 

[Saylick]

Yeah, where's the real RAM kits that satisfy AMD's EXPO auto-overclocking profiles?? I thought the latency would be better than that?

 

[RnR_au]

I suspect that a voltage boost will enable better timings.

 

[CakeMonster]

The primary timings are all over the place on modules right now, I've seen C30 modules at the same speeds too but with the latter timings even slower.

 

[Timmah!]

Userbenchmark bitter words.

AMD Ryzen 5 7600X officially tops UserBenchmark CPU average bench chart leading to backhanded compliment from Team Blue bastion

The AMD Ryzen 5 7600X engineering sample that recently appeared on the beleaguered website UserBenchmark has now been placed in the top position in the site’s CPU average bench chart. To acknowledge this somewhat surprising turn of events, the Ryzen 5 7600X and AMD have earned the most...

www.notebookcheck.net

"More likely, AMD’s new architecture is, once again, optimized to shine in specific benchmarks. Realistically, even if Zen 4 only catches Alder Lake in a small handful of real-world workloads, it will be a huge step forward for AMD, and plenty for them to outsell Intel. A few weeks after Zen 4 (est. Sep 15), Intel’s 13th gen. Raptor Lake is also scheduled to launch. Smart shoppers will do well to wait until then, before considering a purchase. Despite AMD’s Neanderthal marketing, it’s hard not to admire the speed of their technical progress. AMD-Raptor-4 and Intel-Zen-13 would be better fitting product names."

wow. there is local hw site with similar bias toward amd and hate for everything intel, nvidia or apple. This is like first time i see that matched, though biased in opposite direction.