Solved! Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

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What do you expect with Zen 4?


  • Total voters
    330
  • Poll closed .

jamescox

Senior member
Nov 11, 2009
593
1,029
136
The same was true of Zen2 and Zen1/+, considering that the 16C parts will probably clock higher than 32C it's fairly likely to be the case for SIMD heavy workloads.
I think Zen 4 is going to be a pretty big jump with the new process, significantly enhanced architecture, and new platform / memory. I have to wonder if there is really that much time to sell Zen 3 with v-cache before Zen 4 comes. I guess it will be kind of a fall back if DDR5 is still scarce, but how many people would want to buy into a dead end socket with DDR4? I certainly want to wait for next gen with DDR5 now. Also, the demand for Milan will not go away for a while. Sourcing Milan processors still seems to be difficult for some SKUs.
 

RnR_au

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
968
2,528
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I have to wonder if there is really that much time to sell Zen 3 with v-cache before Zen 4 comes. I guess it will be kind of a fall back if DDR5 is still scarce, but how many people would want to buy into a dead end socket with DDR4?
The 5800X3D is for cpu upgraders. Those that are happy with their setup and DDR4. Especially those that are still on Ryzen 2000 and 3000 series. Very tidy upgrade that will give them years of great performance.

Think of it as an AMD marketing campaign. "Trust our sockets. We'll look after you for a long time." Its one of the primary differentiators with Intel.
 

Saylick

Platinum Member
Sep 10, 2012
2,299
4,248
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The 5800X3D is for cpu upgraders. Those that are happy with their setup and DDR4. Especially those that are still on Ryzen 2000 and 3000 series. Very tidy upgrade that will give them years of great performance.

Think of it as an AMD marketing campaign. "Trust our sockets. We'll look after you for a long time." Its one of the primary differentiators with Intel.
Seeing as how it's almost March and Zen 4 allegedly launches in Q3, the 5800X3D needs to launch within the next 2 months or else it just feels like it's launching too close to Zen 4. Furthermore, the price needs to be competitive as well and not some kind of halo product, because it won't be. I still think $500 is too much for a 5800X3D. It really ought to be $449 max, but ideally Zen 3 comes down in price too.
 
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soresu

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2014
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AMD didn't seem to put much time into h264. IIRC it's no faster than my 2600X using an RX 5700 for VCE. h265 is a much different story.
H264/AVC was designed further back though, and these days encoding it is very well optimised on x264 with even a halfway decent CPU.

At the time Apple/Quicktime first started using it for trailers you couldn't even decode a 720p video without severe frame drops on a state of the art CPU.

I'd imagine that the compute complexity of H265/HEVC was similar at its time of release relative to the CPUs at the time.

That being said HEVC benefitted much from inherently better parallel encoding techniques built into the standard - so many core CPUs like Threadripper can encode even 4K no problem with x265 using chunked encoding.
 
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scineram

Senior member
Nov 1, 2020
347
273
106
Previously I considered 20% or above IPC increase for Zen 4 as an evolution of the Zen 3 arch unrealistic. With Zen 3+ showing around 10% increase going from DDR4 to DDR5 I now think it's quite possible.
 

deasd

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
456
598
136
Seeing as how it's almost March and Zen 4 allegedly launches in Q3, the 5800X3D needs to launch within the next 2 months or else it just feels like it's launching too close to Zen 4. Furthermore, the price needs to be competitive as well and not some kind of halo product, because it won't be. I still think $500 is too much for a 5800X3D. It really ought to be $449 max, but ideally Zen 3 comes down in price too.
There's a forecast about price of 5800X3D:

 

Spydermag68

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2002
2,585
78
91
I know that Zen 4 has a new socket, but I am wondering about the mounting points for coolers. I am going to build Zen 4 computer and buying parts through out the year.
 

eek2121

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2005
2,296
3,004
136
Seeing as how it's almost March and Zen 4 allegedly launches in Q3, the 5800X3D needs to launch within the next 2 months or else it just feels like it's launching too close to Zen 4. Furthermore, the price needs to be competitive as well and not some kind of halo product, because it won't be. I still think $500 is too much for a 5800X3D. It really ought to be $449 max, but ideally Zen 3 comes down in price too.
The first batches of the 5800X3D have already shipped, so they should become available sometime this month. Zen 4 could launch any time between July - September. The 5800X3D will still be sold and will be a viable option well into the lifecycle of Zen 4. It is meant as an upgrade option for users that don't want to upgrade their motherboard, CPU, and memory.
 

Vattila

Senior member
Oct 22, 2004
776
1,267
136
N3E is a different node from the original N3
Anyone know whether TSMC has stated anything about design compatibility with plain N3? According to AnandTech's report in October, they had not commented on it:

"With N3, the company will be changing their tactics somewhat, and will introduce a node called N3E, which can be considered as an enhanced version of N3. This process node will introduce an improved process window with performance, power, and yield enhancements. [...] TSMC has not commented on whether N3E will be compatible with N3's design rules, design infrastructure, and IPs."

TSMC RoadMap Update | AnandTech | 2021-10-18

Edit: Tom's Hardware now has an update on this news:

TSMC’s N3E Will Reportedly Enter Production Ahead of Schedule | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)
 
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Doug S

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2020
1,509
2,201
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So looks like Apple will end up skipping N3 in favor of N3E given the Q2 23 ramp, which matches TSMC's ramps for everything else except N3.

We'll have to see if they can get N2 back on Q2 cadence for Apple. It is supposedly 2023 for risk production, but if that's Q4 it won't make mass production in time.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
12,087
5,754
136
So looks like Apple will end up skipping N3 in favor of N3E given the Q2 23 ramp, which matches TSMC's ramps for everything else except N3.

We'll have to see if they can get N2 back on Q2 cadence for Apple. It is supposedly 2023 for risk production, but if that's Q4 it won't make mass production in time.
Is N2 GAA?
 

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