Speculation: Spring refresh for Ryzen

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Vattila

Senior member
Oct 22, 2004
799
1,351
136
As I've posted elsewhere, I think AMD fell short of their frequency targets for the Ryzen 3000 series. A later launch than expected, statements relating to frequency challenges, Max Boost redefinition, boost issues, 3900X shortages, and now the 3950X delay from September to November, do all corroborate this. I guess they aimed for 5 GHz, but fell ~8% short.

However, TSMC is firing on all cylinders. Amongst a number of process roadmap announcements, they now offer N7P as a refinement of their N7 process on which the Zen 2 chiplet is built. N7P is compatible with N7 design rules, so it should provide a fairly simple and cost-effective opportunity to optimise existing designs.

With that in mind, is there a chance that AMD will do a spring refresh based on a faster stepping of the CPU chiplet?

1569662809984.png
 
Last edited:

Vattila

Senior member
Oct 22, 2004
799
1,351
136
> There already is a 3990X. Having an identical name would be madness

Doh! Aye, I seem to have forgot about the Threadripper in this thread. 3950XT it is then. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: lightmanek

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,810
1,159
136
No need to refresh what is already entirely unreachable by the competition.
Do you think AMD fans will be disappointed if Zen 3 launches and happens to be slower than budget Intel chips in gaming? I understand the excitement about Zen 2 Refresh and everything but what this gives you is a few more points in areas where AMD is already ahead of Intel.
With AMD strongly marketing Ryzen 2's "gaming cache," and even labeling the 3950x as a "gaming cpu," I think AMD's chip architects will be under some pressure to knock Intel off that pedestal. Of course, there are bigger things like enterprise to focus on, but the loud-mouths on Reddit won't take such an event too kindly as gaming is enjoying a huge attention now with both AMD, Nvidia, and even Intel prepping brand new hardware for the market in a matter of months.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vattila

Vattila

Senior member
Oct 22, 2004
799
1,351
136
Hilarious! The poll has votes coming in after this rumour is approaching fact. That's unfair. Very few thought this refresh would happen. As of earlier today only 50% was even interested in a refresh, and of the other half that was interested, 3/5 thought it highly unlikely. And of the remaining 20%, there were probably some late wise-guy votes after this rumour solidified. So, I'm closing the poll now. Thanks for taking part.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Zucker2k

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,181
1,772
136

APISAK is a reputable source, I think this confirms the refresh.
With rogame and APISAK on board, agree. Two quite reputable sources IIRC

I keep forgetting it's only May, and wondering what this means for a November/December Zen3 release, and then I recall the RX590 being released ~6 months before AMD confirmed RDNA/RX5000 series release date.
AMD haven't even really confirmed Zen3 release date so maybe it's not that weird.
 

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
2,565
5,570
146
A refresh sounds rather bad because if Zen3 for consumers were anywere near the horizon, this wouldn't happen. So I guess Zen3 is H1 2021 then.
How many people need to go up on stage and say that Zen 3 is this year before people understand that's... consumer Zen 3 products will hit the shelves this year?

Why do you think we haven't seen - and there won't be - a 3950XT? And no, it's not just because the 3950X is still uncontested by Comet Lake.
 

Tabalan

Member
Feb 23, 2020
41
25
91
They have the tiers... and larger numbers mean faster machines.

Thats about it.
I have to agree with Zucker2k. Ryzen naming scheme screams "COPYCAT". We have Intel i3/i5/i7 X000 (x = gen), so AMD came up with ... R3/R5/R7 X000 (x = gen).

Edit:
Also, why the hell you you bring GPU naming scheme into CPU side?
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,647
3,706
136
Do you think AMD fans will be disappointed if Zen 3 launches and happens to be slower than budget Intel chips in gaming? I understand the excitement about Zen 2 Refresh and everything but what this gives you is a few more points in areas where AMD is already ahead of Intel.
With AMD strongly marketing Ryzen 2's "gaming cache," and even labeling the 3950x as a "gaming cpu," I think AMD's chip architects will be under some pressure to knock Intel off that pedestal. Of course, there are bigger things like enterprise to focus on, but the loud-mouths on Reddit won't take such an event too kindly as gaming is enjoying a huge attention now with both AMD, Nvidia, and even Intel prepping brand new hardware for the market in a matter of months.

I don't expect that to be the case. They are pretty close as is. There's not one game I can think of that runs much more poorly on Zen than Intel. It is nice to see you admit that this "gives you is a few more points in areas where AMD is already ahead of Intel." So basically outside of gaming and AVX512, AMD is the best? And in games, it's close enough to not matter?

AMD Marketing is dumb. GameCache was such a stupid name. I don't recall them labeling the 3950X as a "gaming" CPU but I believe they are dumb even to have done it. Next you'll see something like "Get the EPYC gaming experience".

Also, considering the comparison between the 3100 and 3300X, I think that bodes well for Zen 3's gaming. No split cache, more cache and cores than the 3300X, less latency all around? That's only speculation on my part though. I think Zen 3 might take back Intel's last advantage.

yep. the 1600'AF' was one of the dumbest imo. why not '2600AF', '2600B' '2600D'? anything but labeling a low bin 2600 "1600".
there is already enough confusion with Raven/Picasso/Renoir being a numerical generation ahead of the core.

Like I said, AMD has piss poor marketing.

I have to agree with Zucker2k. Ryzen naming scheme screams "COPYCAT". We have Intel i3/i5/i7 X000 (x = gen), so AMD came up with ... R3/R5/R7 X000 (x = gen).

Edit:
Also, why the hell you you bring GPU naming scheme into CPU side?

OK, so then I guess Intel copied BMW marketing ;) .
 

Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
434
859
106
With all these leaks firming up, and it now looks like models 3600XT, 3800XT and 3900XT are to be revealed shortly — where is the 16-core refresh? Is there a possibility that AMD has kept the wraps on a refreshed 3950XT as well, or perhaps a new flagship 3990X, as I speculated here in the original post?
Given that the 3950x is a more recent launch, has no direct competitor, has high boost clocks, and already uses top tier silicon, there is no reason to refresh it with Zen 3 looming. AMD must be getting really good bins at this point if 3600's are shipping with 4.4 Ghz+ @ 1.2v silicon. They'd be stupid not up the stock specs and sell it for more money. Intel's pricing has given them a wide open door to do this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97 and Vattila

Geranium

Member
Apr 22, 2020
83
101
61
yep. the 1600'AF' was one of the dumbest imo. why not '2600AF', '2600B' '2600D'? anything but labeling a low bin 2600 "1600".
there is already enough confusion with Raven/Picasso/Renoir being a numerical generation ahead of the core.
There is no 1600 AF in AMD's line up. It is a made up name given by some reviewers and forums people. It is people creating their own confusion.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,226
9,990
126
There is no 1600 AF in AMD's line up. It is a made up name given by some reviewers and forums people. It is people creating their own confusion.
But it has basis in factual reality. The product code given by AMD for that SKU, has an "AF" in the name, rather than "AE". Sure, they could call it "BOXwhateverAFwhatever", and give the whole SKU model code, every time that it is mentioned in an article, to be accurate, but most reasonable people (apparently unlike yourself), can see that when they mentioned "1600AF", they are referring to that particular SKU. The SKU is different than the original "AE" SKU, and is a real thing, and the AF SKU has measurably different characteristics than the original "AE" SKU does. Hence, "1600AF".

(Or do you always refer to "Kleenex Facial Tissues", whenever you need a tissue, or a "Kleenex"?)
 
  • Like
Reactions: guachi

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
2,092
1,065
136
I just read a google article that said that maybe Zen 3 would arrive early next year on the 5nm process instead of the enhanced 7nm process the road map has indicated for several years. I am not saying it's true, just a rumor. Is it possible the Zen2+ stuff that runs @ 1.2v and 2-300mhz higher than standard Zen2 silicon may be the 7nm enhanced 2nd generation silicon Zen 3 is supposed to be based on?

I will find the article and post it within a few hours.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,722
4,625
136
There is no 1600 AF in AMD's line up. It is a made up name given by some reviewers and forums people. It is people creating their own confusion.
There have always been CPUs that with a different SKU that performed better than the early ones and were often highly valued.
 

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
2,565
5,570
146
Do you think AMD fans will be disappointed if Zen 3 launches and happens to be slower than budget Intel chips in gaming? I understand the excitement about Zen 2 Refresh and everything but what this gives you is a few more points in areas where AMD is already ahead of Intel.
With AMD strongly marketing Ryzen 2's "gaming cache," and even labeling the 3950x as a "gaming cpu," I think AMD's chip architects will be under some pressure to knock Intel off that pedestal. Of course, there are bigger things like enterprise to focus on, but the loud-mouths on Reddit won't take such an event too kindly as gaming is enjoying a huge attention now with both AMD, Nvidia, and even Intel prepping brand new hardware for the market in a matter of months.

That entire post was cringe, sorry.

First of all, there's nothing exciting about Zen 2 refresh. It exists purely to keep the low end of the market who has to wait a while happy.

Secondly, yes, I'm sure AMD's engineers are under great pressure right now because their all of their efforts in engineering were put into a architecture that wasn't capable of taking the gaming crown and for all those with realistic use cases - resulted in a performance deficit of 5-6%, and was only capable of ripping apart their competitor's "High End" desktop chips in productivity-related tasks whilst on a mainstream platform itself.

Man, if I was at AMD right now I'd be in tears at how all my efforts were in vain.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,810
1,159
136
That entire post was cringe, sorry.

First of all, there's nothing exciting about Zen 2 refresh. It exists purely to keep the low end of the market who has to wait a while happy.

Secondly, yes, I'm sure AMD's engineers are under great pressure right now because their all of their efforts in engineering were put into a architecture that wasn't capable of taking the gaming crown and for all those with realistic use cases - resulted in a performance deficit of 5-6%, and was only capable of ripping apart their competitor's "High End" desktop chips in productivity-related tasks whilst on a mainstream platform itself.

Man, if I was at AMD right now I'd be in tears at how all my efforts were in vain.
That's a long-winded way of saying no. Never mind the fact that I did acknowledge that "there are bigger things like enterprise to focus on."
 

mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
1,575
96
Geez, glad you weren't around for the Q6600. SLACR anyone?

I was, i loved that chip. A 3ghz oc was pretty much a guarantee on about any motherboard. I even did a tape mod back in 2018 on a Dell Inspiron 520 i believe it was and was able to get 3ghz. A pretty awesome chip that seemed unstoppable.

In regards for this refresh, my body is ready for any improvements to AM4. I say bring them baby!