Speculation: Ryzen 3000 series

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What will Ryzen 3000 for AM4 look like?


  • Total voters
    221

ozzy702

Senior member
Nov 1, 2011
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A very sensible comparison.

Seriously, your comments regarding AdoredTV are the by far stupidest in this thread. Do you have a competing YouTube channel or is there just some sort of disconnect between you and rationality?
Nah, AdoredTV ran with wishful fanboy rumors and presented it as fact and as such should face some criticism. The only ones who aren't willing to criticize are wishful fanboys. I get it, AdoredTV is extremely pro AMD and anti Intel/NVIDIA which plays to his fan base, but as a credible source of information, AdoredTV has taken a big hit.
 
Dec 31, 2017
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Nah, AdoredTV ran with wishful fanboy rumors and presented it as fact and as such should face some criticism. The only ones who aren't willing to criticize are wishful fanboys. I get it, AdoredTV is extremely pro AMD and anti Intel/NVIDIA which plays to his fan base, but as a credible source of information, AdoredTV has taken a big hit.
I am not an AMD fanboy but I prefer AMD products because their Cost x Benefit because I am Brazilian
 

inf64

Platinum Member
Mar 11, 2011
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I think Zen 2 are still too far away to give any more information. In fact i think those leaks in the last few days was the reason of why they rushed a Zen 2 preview. They dont even have a fully working ES yet. Keep in mind that it may not come this year if something goes wrong.


I really dont know what they can do or what they are going to do, what i think is that the I/O chip with nothing else inside is very much empty because it needs to be big for the physical area for contacts, just like old fashioned NB were until someone came out with the idea of adding a GPU in there.
I have to put you on ignore since I cannot read the nonsense you are spewing on these forums anymore. It brings zero value to discussion and just derails these threads into bickering.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
6,582
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That implies quad-channel Ryzen. If that were the case, we'd know about it for sure.
In that option, Ryzen would still be dual channel, just two channels disabled and the die would be reused for Threadripper. I view it as unlikely, but it would open up more options for them for embedded BGA.
 

mattiasnyc

Senior member
Mar 30, 2017
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Nah, AdoredTV ran with wishful fanboy rumors and presented it as fact
In which video? Pick a video and quote him stating something as fact without making clear it is his guess / prediction based on said rumors.

Just one.

I'll wait.
 

exquisitechar

Senior member
Apr 18, 2017
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Nah, AdoredTV ran with wishful fanboy rumors and presented it as fact and as such should face some criticism.
Only, he said to take it with a pinch of salt from the very beginning -- he never said anything was for sure.

I don't get all this vitriol that's being hurled towards him, or the way people are twisting his words to make him seem more wrong than he is. His leakers this time around were wrong, yeah, but he has made some good predictions in the past...and he was one of the first to mention chiplets with a separate IO die, he's the only one besides Charlie Demerjian to have mentioned Zen X, etc. He makes mistakes, I disagree with him on a lot of stuff and I called his latest leaks incorrect from the very beginning, but this depiction of him as a lying clickbaiter with zero credibility that some are pushing is going too far, IMO.
 
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ozzy702

Senior member
Nov 1, 2011
986
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Only, he said to take it with a pinch of salt from the very beginning -- he never said anything was for sure.

I don't get all this vitriol being that's hurled towards him, or the way people are twisting his words to make him seem more wrong than he is. His leakers this time around were wrong, yeah, but he has made some good predictions in the past...and he was one of the first to mention chiplets with a separate IO die, he's the only one besides Charlie Demerjian to have mentioned Zen X, etc. He makes mistakes, I disagree with him on a lot of stuff and I called his latest leaks incorrect from the very beginning, but this depiction of him as a lying clickbaiter with zero credibility that some are pushing is going too far, IMO.
I don't think he's a lying clickbaiter with zero credibility, but I do think he needs to stop presenting himself and an expert who is privy to special information and then passing it off as "leaks". No, it wasn't anything resembling a leak, it was wishful thinking. He plays to the hard core AMD fan who always over-hypes future products and is then seriously disappointed when they don't deliver what far too often is an impossible product.

AMD has been kicking butt and the proof is in the pudding, we don't need to make things up and over-hype them.
 
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Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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A very sensible comparison.

Seriously, your comments regarding AdoredTV are the by far stupidest in this thread. Do you have a competing YouTube channel or is there just some sort of disconnect between you and rationality?
Wooo hang in there i did touch a nerve there? Why you insist in defending Adored so much to the point you are directly attacking me?

As for your question, i have a unmonetized youtube channel were i upload gaming videos just for fun.
 
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Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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What are you even talking about? You honestly believe that AMD threw together a demonstration of Zen 2 at CES in the last minute in response to some leaks? Do you seriously believe that AMD wouldn't have planned to talk about or show Zen 2 at their CES keynote presentation?

And what do you mean by "fully working" engineering sample? They had a chip running Cinebench, so I'm not sure what part of that wasn't fully working. They showed off and benchmarked a 64-core Rome part back in November, so it's pretty clear that things are not only fine, but that they'll be shipping later this year as AMD has already announced.
In the moment Lisa Su said "This I/O chip was specially designed for desktop" you know it was a direct response to the "leaks", it definately influenced the AMD presentation to what point im not sure.

From the looks of it, Lisa Su was concerned about stability, that tells me its not the final ES, im not saying that is not coming this year.
 
Jan 28, 2017
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AdoreTV situation is a sad one.
I don't really think he has "sources", but he knows story, he reads a lot about what's happening in the industry, so from his position as a minor YT channel he was able to make a bet. He was right about the chiplets and this made the public opinion folds in his favor and be echoed.

Then he tried to do the same thing again, he tried another scoop, and this time all the press was keeping an eye on him.
Yes, he didn't said clearly that it was true, that it would certain happen, but he put weight on his predictions, he made the public believe that he was right. And he wasn't. For what AMD had already reveled during the Epyc 2 event anyone could make up those chips. But he was being too specific about too many chips, and behaved like he would give the last laugh "after the announcement".

He shoot himself, on both of his foots.
We can still listen to what he have to say about the industry, but as a "leaker"? As someone with "deep contacts"? Not anymore, this reputation is dead and it was deserved.
 
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jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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From the looks of it, Lisa Su was concerned about stability, that tells me its not the final ES, im not saying that is not coming this year.
I will say that I am surprised that Epyc 2 isn't shipping yet. Maybe they are doing another spin.
 
Apr 27, 2000
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Yeah, wasting fully working chiplet to 8-core desktop SKU would need yields to be sky high. If CCX is still 4-core there's no any benefits from using one 8-core chiplet vs two 4 cores so AMD preferred chiplet configuration is pretty obvious.
What makes you think AMD is still using 4-core CCXs? They have said nothing about that for Rome or any other Zen2 product.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
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Have to agree re: Adored. He had very detailed spreadsheets of all the cpu's etc. And of course he would say nothing is certain since he wasn't sure of his "source" but it seems to me now that those leaks were false. These cpu's are half a year away so no way AMD has such detailed model numbers so soon. At this point they are still looking at yields.
 

mattiasnyc

Senior member
Mar 30, 2017
354
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Wooo hang in there i did touch a nerve there? Why you insist in defending Adored so much to the point you are directly attacking me?
I'm defending reason and attacking stupid illogical 'arguments' (yours).

I don't care about AdoredTV the way you seem to think I do. To me his videos are just entertainment. When he says he got a supposed leak then to me that is exactly what it sounds like; a supposed leak. He even warns viewers when his information isn't verified by him to be 100% accurate.

Most people seem to comprehend that distinction. It seems lost on you however.
 

mattiasnyc

Senior member
Mar 30, 2017
354
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Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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In the moment Lisa Su said "This I/O chip was specially designed for desktop" you know it was a direct response to the "leaks", it definately influenced the AMD presentation to what point im not sure.

From the looks of it, Lisa Su was concerned about stability, that tells me its not the final ES, im not saying that is not coming this year.
Maybe the comment was geared towards the Intel fanatics that spewed nonsense like AMD doesn't have the manpower or the resources to design both a server and desktop market I/O chip at the same time. I don't think Lisa Su really cares too much about the speculative chatter on the web. If anything she welcomes it as it gets people talking about AMD.

I'd imagine AMD employees hang out on the web after hours just like us. I'm sure many of them have read this thread from the start and have spewed soda onto their monitors.....Must suck not being able to type "Wait and see ", "Your an idiot", "If you only knew", or whatever else they really want to say....These examples are not geared towards anyone.

The guys in the box try to think outside the box, but in the end they're still in the box. Reading speculation based threads might be all that's needed to fill in that last piece of the puzzle they needed. Maybe two speculative ideas morphed together create the missing link. Funny things happen, ideas just pop!
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
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Power being about 65W, the CPUs chiplet should be at 45-50W and the I/O chip at 20-15W, wich is the consumed power in Pinnacle Ridge I/O.
So it does look like the AM4 hub may be able to support two chiplets. Is it confirmed that it is on the same process as the server hub (14nm)?
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
4,525
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Why you insist in defending Adored so much to the point you are directly attacking me?
You seemed to have no problem attacking Adored with allegations that he made everything up earlier in this thread. Are you surprised when people start thinking you've got an axe to grind?

In the moment Lisa Su said "This I/O chip was specially designed for desktop" you know it was a direct response to the "leaks", it definately influenced the AMD presentation to what point im not sure.
Better be careful. Another stretch like that and you might tear a muscle.

From the looks of it, Lisa Su was concerned about stability, that tells me its not the final ES, im not saying that is not coming this year.
It's pretty far along, considering it was running at over 4 GHz, and they not only benchmarked it using Cinebench, but also had a demo of it running of Forza. Since they're not shipping until mid-year, they likely are doing some additional tweaks, but it shouldn't be anything major.

You'll also need to point out where in the keynote Lisa was concerned about stability. To me it sounds like you're just making stuff up.
 

gorobei

Platinum Member
Jan 7, 2007
2,971
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Again: Quote a video where he said he had "deep contacts" with someone at AMD.
he has yet to respond to any of the requests for proof.
the bulk of his arguments is a pattern of:
  • create strawman of supposed ces launch claim
  • baby and bathwater fallacy on navi/apus as discrediting everything else that was proven/likely (i/o die, 2die 16c max, 5ghz boost)
  • all in furtherance of ad hominem on adored.
all the while ignoring any context as pointed out by others.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
607
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I don't think he's a lying clickbaiter with zero credibility, but I do think he needs to stop presenting himself and an expert who is privy to special information and then passing it off as "leaks". No, it wasn't anything resembling a leak, it was wishful thinking.
It seemed he had zero credibility from the start and now I think it should be pretty clear that he in fact has zero credibility.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
607
117
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I dont understand this, what im missing here. The I/O size is about the size of a Raven Ridge die minus the 4C CCX, and you need to remove extra stuff needed to support that CCX. Raven Ridge I/O is already everything this Ryzen I/O should have... if there is no vega 11+Display block+multimedia block inside in what they are going to use all that empty space for? 4 Satas+2xDDR4+4xUSB3.1+32PCI-E+2xIF links is really a LOT of physical pin room needed and no much of cirtuity inside. Even if i take into consideration that it may have a 2xDDR5 controller as well that once again will increase a lot of pin area needed.
GPU on separate chiplet makes no sense - it needs to be on the I/O chipset, because close coupling with the memory controller for maximum bandwidth is crucial.
However, there is not enough space on the I/O die for even a basic 2-3 CU iGPU. Based on the size, I expect only the same northbridge/southbridge connectivity that Zeppelin had to be there (it's the same 14nm node), only upgraded to PCIe 4.0 and perhaps with more evolved memory controller.

There probably just isn't any space left for fancy stuff, neither GPU nor extra cache. They would have to massively squish all the non-CCX blocks that Zeppelin had, or eliminate a lot of them.
Zeppelin had a large uncore with lots of server functionality and IF that was not used in AM4 products. A look at the (Raven) RR die shows just how much that uncore can be reduced. Zepp dies were meant to communicate with another (up to 4 Zepps wired together); this seems to have been left intact in PR which is what enabled the huge core count in 2nd gen threatripper.

Even so, it would be a tight and possibly impossible fit for a 3CU igpu on the AM4 controller die. I'm x ing my thumbs and am hopeful they pulled this off though.

As far as 2nd chiplet, it seems the chiplets may be able to communicate with another in binary pairs (for cache sharing and coherency) similar to how CCX's on a Zepp die relate to another. So no complex logic and L4 may be needed on the AM4 controller in order for it to use two chiplets. See how the pairs are arranged in 7nm Epyc:



The big advantage here is that they can use less than prime chiplets in AM4 packaged double chiplet products, namely 12c 6+6 and 8c 4+4. This means they likely have some way of somewhat successfully identifying and matching imperfect chiplets.

Still, I would expect most 7nm Ryzen to be single chiplet products. 1x 6c, followed by single chiplet 8c. Thirdly followed by dual chiplet 12c.

Possibly some models with SMT disabled and halved L3.

Probably complemented with 12nm Pinnacles refreshed and rebinned.

And almost certainly complemented with the 11CU quadcore APUs based on the confirmed mobile APU.

Definitely the strongest and best product line ever.
 
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Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
5,280
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Nah, AdoredTV ran with wishful fanboy rumors and presented it as fact and as such should face some criticism. The only ones who aren't willing to criticize are wishful fanboys. I get it, AdoredTV is extremely pro AMD and anti Intel/NVIDIA which plays to his fan base, but as a credible source of information, AdoredTV has taken a big hit.
I really highly doubt you watch his videos. He presents very little as fact. Most of it is discussing the probability of possibilities. He will go in depth on a lot of his history videos, but the speculation stuff is mostly if this then that.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,589
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You seemed to have no problem attacking Adored with allegations that he made everything up earlier in this thread. Are you surprised when people start thinking you've got an axe to grind?
You are taking this too personal ill suggest you to relax. There is a diference in giving a opinion in a forum than making a video.

Better be careful. Another stretch like that and you might tear a muscle.
That the first thing that came to my mind the moment she said that, it was weird that she specially pointed out that the I/O chip was designed for desktop. Whats the need? You have to admit it was a strange way of saying it.

It's pretty far along, considering it was running at over 4 GHz, and they not only benchmarked it using Cinebench, but also had a demo of it running of Forza. Since they're not shipping until mid-year, they likely are doing some additional tweaks, but it shouldn't be anything major.

You'll also need to point out where in the keynote Lisa was concerned about stability. To me it sounds like you're just making stuff up.
As soon as it ended both the game and the cinebench she said that she was worried, it may mean nothing and only be a joke or a reference to something else but thats my opinion, maybe you would like it better if i made a video about it. Im never claimed thats true, if it ends up to be false thats not my fault.

So again, relax, you are making too much out of 2 small things than can be taken either way.
 
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Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,589
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Edited out. Ive already said everything i had about those Adored videos im not going to keep on the subject. Some users took it personal and started defending it like ive insulted their mothers or something, it really not worth it.
 
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