Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

[uzzi38]

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now.

First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time!

Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3 is much bigger than from RDNA1 to RDNA2. We should expect many big improvements in GFX11. 🤔" / Twitter

 

[Kaluan]

Pulling in RDNA4 I dunno, but moving on to focusing their efforts on RDNA4 I could see.

Or that.

Either way, it read like they're doubling down. Far from stopping anytime soon.

 

[eek2121]

I would really love for the stock 7900XTX to be in stock for more than 1 second so I can debate pulling the trigger on one. 😠

Not exactly. For the last quarter, the Switch sold 8.2 million units to the PS5's 7.1 million. I can't find Xbox unit sales for the same time period, but I highly doubt it's under a million.

Now think about this. Let's use a fictional example:

Switch SOC costs $10 to make.
PS5/Xbox SOC costs $50 to make.
AMD wants a 20% margin. NVIDIA wants a 30% margin. NVIDIA makes $3 per unit, AMD makes $10 per unit.

Note that console contracts don't work like this, but I wanted to point out the error in everyone's math. In my example, NVIDIA would need Nintendo to sell 3X as many units as PS5/Xbox. In reality they don't.

I also bring this up because the SOC in the switch costs significantly less than the one in the PS5/Xbox. NVIDIA's profits are significantly less than AMD for the console segment. Like several zeros less.

Don't even get me started on the rumors of Nintendo reaching out to AMD for a future console iteration...

 

[igor_kavinski]

I would really love for the stock 7900XTX to be in stock for more than 1 second so I can debate pulling the trigger on one. 😠

Patience. You really want the improved 7950XTX. Trust me.

Don't even get me started on the rumors of Nintendo reaching out to AMD for a future console iteration...

Please do

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Patience. You really want the improved 7950XTX. Trust me.

And that improvement is what? Higher clocks?
I am pretty skeptical about that when AMD just lowered clocks for Phoenix IGP from 3GHz to 2.8GHz.
The only other improvement could be better optimization for dual-issue.

 

[igor_kavinski]

And that improvement is what? Higher clocks?

Possibly better power consumption, reliable cooling and better build quality. They sure learned some expensive lessons with manufacturing the 7900XTX. Someone in their ranks must have had to face the dark side of Lisa Su

 

[uzzi38]

And that improvement is what? Higher clocks?
I am pretty skeptical about that when AMD just lowered clocks for Phoenix IGP from 3GHz to 2.8GHz.
The only other improvement could be better optimization for dual-issue.

Don't worry about it, it's fine.

Phoenix's iGPU was always a mediocre improvement by AMD's numbers even before the RDNA3 meme situation, this isn't going to change anything.

 

[Tigerick]

NBC has the review of ASUS TUF Gaming A16 with RX 7600S which would be the specs for upcoming RX7600 desktop GPU. Performance wise, still below RTX3060...this is with 95W TGP though.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-TUF-Gaming-A16-Advantage-Edition-in-review-AMD-notebook-under-the-auspices-of-the-7.694033.0.html

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

NBC has the review of ASUS TUF Gaming A16 with RX 7600S which would be the specs for upcoming RX7600 desktop GPU. Performance wise, still below RTX3060...this is with 95W TGP though.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-TUF-Gaming-A16-Advantage-Edition-in-review-AMD-notebook-under-the-auspices-of-the-7.694033.0.html

Hard to tell how good It is, the scores are all over the place.

	TDP	TimeSpy	CBP 2077	Spider-Man Miles Morales	God of War	Dying Light 2	Ghostwire Tokyo
Asus TUF Gaming A16 Advantage Edition	RX 7600S 95W	9080-9208	70 FPS 1080p 43 FPS 1440p	80 FPS 1080p 56 FPS 1440p	58 FPS 1080p 46 FPS 1440p	43 FPS 1440p	115 FPS 1080p 75 FPS 1440p
MSI Katana 17 B13V	RTX 4060 105W	10299 (+12-13%)	74 FPS 1080p (+6%) 46 FPS 1440p (+7%)	77 FPS 1080p (+6%) 60 FPS 1440p (+7%)	68 FPS 1080p (+17%) 56 FPS 1440p (+22%)	44 FPS 1440p (+2%)	66 FPS 1080p (-43%) 37 FPS 1440p (-51%)
Schenker XMG Focus 15	RTX 4050 140W	8536 (-6-7%)	65 FPS 1080p (-7%) 32 FPS 1440p (-26%)	85 FPS 1080p (+6%) 53 FPS 1440p (-5%)	55 FPS 1080p (-5%) 44 FPS 1440p (-4%)	41 FPS 1440p (-5%)	-------------

Everything is playable at 1080p even at 1440p with 2 games under 35 FPS.
In Witcher 3 it clocked at 2283MHz.
Power consumption for this laptop is super, 12 hours Wifi surfing!
I think we can say that this one is better than RTX 4050, but worse than RTX 4060 If we talk only about raster and Vram.
Not sure how much better will RX 7600M XT be. 15-20% better?
Is N33 worth buying over AD107? It will depend on price, but Asus TUF series with Nvidia are decently priced.
Asus TUF -> 7735HS + 4060 8GB 140W + 16GB + 512GB -> 1 299 €

If Asus made a TUF series with N32 + Phoenix costing not more than 1999 euro, then I would buy It. Doesn't matter If It has only 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. I would change them regardless.

 

[Mopetar]

NBC has the review of ASUS TUF Gaming A16 with RX 7600S which would be the specs for upcoming RX7600 desktop GPU. Performance wise, still below RTX3060...this is with 95W TGP though.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-TUF-Gaming-A16-Advantage-Edition-in-review-AMD-notebook-under-the-auspices-of-the-7.694033.0.html

When I first read your post I wondered when in the hell mainstream news networks had started doing tech reviews.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Hard to tell how good It is, the scores are all over the place.

	TDP	TimeSpy	CBP 2077	Spider-Man Miles Morales	God of War	Dying Light 2	Ghostwire Tokyo
Asus TUF Gaming A16 Advantage Edition	RX 7600S 95W	9080-9208	70 FPS 1080p 43 FPS 1440p	80 FPS 1080p 56 FPS 1440p	58 FPS 1080p 46 FPS 1440p	43 FPS 1440p	115 FPS 1080p 75 FPS 1440p
MSI Katana 17 B13V	RTX 4060 105W	10299 (+12-13%)	74 FPS 1080p (+6%) 46 FPS 1440p (+7%)	77 FPS 1080p (+6%) 60 FPS 1440p (+7%)	68 FPS 1080p (+17%) 56 FPS 1440p (+22%)	44 FPS 1440p (+2%)	66 FPS 1080p (-43%) 37 FPS 1440p (-51%)
Schenker XMG Focus 15	RTX 4050 140W	8536 (-6-7%)	65 FPS 1080p (-7%) 32 FPS 1440p (-26%)	85 FPS 1080p (+6%) 53 FPS 1440p (-5%)	55 FPS 1080p (-5%) 44 FPS 1440p (-4%)	41 FPS 1440p (-5%)	-------------

Everything is playable at 1080p even at 1440p with 2 games under 35 FPS.
In Witcher 3 it clocked at 2283MHz.
Power consumption for this laptop is super, 12 hours Wifi surfing!
I think we can say that this one is better than RTX 4050, but worse than RTX 4060 If we talk only about raster and Vram.
Not sure how much better will RX 7600M XT be. 15-20% better?
Is N33 worth buying over AD107? It will depend on price, but Asus TUF series with Nvidia are decently priced.
Asus TUF -> 7735HS + 4060 8GB 140W + 16GB + 512GB -> 1 299 €

If Asus made a TUF series with N32 + Phoenix costing not more than 1999 euro, then I would buy It. Doesn't matter If It has only 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. I would change them regardless.

Be careful also because notebookcheck tests are very oriented towards CPU scaling instead of GPU scaling. When the GPU is taxed more the 7600S works fairly well, but they count as average the results for DOTA and XPlane which are practically always CPU limited and there is a substantial difference between the Zen3 and Alder Lake at 1080p.

 

[Dribble]

I would really love for the stock 7900XTX to be in stock for more than 1 second so I can debate pulling the trigger on one. 😠



Now think about this. Let's use a fictional example:

Switch SOC costs $10 to make.
PS5/Xbox SOC costs $50 to make.
AMD wants a 20% margin. NVIDIA wants a 30% margin. NVIDIA makes $3 per unit, AMD makes $10 per unit.

Note that console contracts don't work like this, but I wanted to point out the error in everyone's math. In my example, NVIDIA would need Nintendo to sell 3X as many units as PS5/Xbox. In reality they don't.

I also bring this up because the SOC in the switch costs significantly less than the one in the PS5/Xbox. NVIDIA's profits are significantly less than AMD for the console segment. Like several zeros less.

Don't even get me started on the rumors of Nintendo reaching out to AMD for a future console iteration...

Margins matter to shareholders, and they are the people who actually own the company. If your company overall has low margins for the market it's in (and for AMD that's vs Intel and Nvidia) then the shareholders will be unhappy. A richer AMD would have never taken those low margin console deals.

 

[maddie]

Margins matter to shareholders, and they are the people who actually own the company. If your company overall has low margins for the market it's in (and for AMD that's vs Intel and Nvidia) then the shareholders will be unhappy. A richer AMD would have never taken those low margin console deals.

Ironic, isn't it? And, Intel refused the Apple work when it was riding high. Sounds like fertile ground for " a wise man says ........." proverb.

 

[moinmoin]

Margins matter to shareholders, and they are the people who actually own the company. If your company overall has low margins for the market it's in (and for AMD that's vs Intel and Nvidia) then the shareholders will be unhappy. A richer AMD would have never taken those low margin console deals.

If I were an investor I'd actually stop investing in AMD should they start making company wide strategic decisions based on margins alone. That way of thinking alone ensured Intel was never realistically able to expand beyond its core business in the past decades.

 

[maddie]

If I were an investor I'd actually stop investing in AMD should they start making company wide strategic decisions based on margins alone. That way of thinking alone ensured Intel was never realistically able to expand beyond its core business in the past decades.

The effects from such actions are longer term, but it's worth being aware of the perils, and yes, it limits your freedom to grow the company.

I've always found the idea of a fixed company wide margin limitation as the basis for supporting various market segments as infantile. As ridiculous as expecting a single physical design to be ideal for all segments.

One automobile, aircraft, ship, server CPU, GPU, etc, to rule them all. Our low end business has to emulate our high end business sort of thinking. There's a reason why lots of Chinese companies have grabbed market share and are now moving up-market. Become efficient at the low end and you will have learnt important skills for expanding into new market segments. AMD did this but seems to be forgetting lessons and thinking of chasing the high margin dream for all segments. Following Apple and Nvidia I guess. Short term thinking, but so typical of today. Milk the present and let the future end up wherever.

 

[KompuKare]

Ironic, isn't it? And, Intel refused the Apple work when it was riding high. Sounds like fertile ground for " a wise man says ........." proverb.

If I were an investor I'd actually stop investing in AMD should they start making company wide strategic decisions based on margins alone. That way of thinking alone ensured Intel was never realistically able to expand beyond its core business in the past decades.

What is all the more amusing is that Intel don't actually know their own history or see it through very rose-tinted glasses.

Why did Intel and x86 get so big?

Or who in their right mind would have looked at CPUs in 1980 or so and see the 8-bit/16-bit monster which x86 become dominant against something like the Motorola 68000 (32 bit registers from the beginning)?

Where Intel got lucky was winning the IBM PC job. While their design was pretty poor (ask any programmer in the 1980s and 1990s who had to fight with memory segmentation etc.), they had one thing the others did not: volume.

That is how Intel beat the various workstation CPU vendors and the servers ones: by being a volume company whose huge profits from the IBM PC gig they could re-invest into foundry and design (the 486 was their first half-decent design).

Then... Intel became fat and complacent.

The "we don't want low margins stuff" mantra lost them the high volumes (by turning down Apple for the IPhone SOC, by crippling Atom for yeas lest it steals marketshare from Core, treating Atom - and chipsets - as something to keep old fabs turning along). The rest is history but if Intel hadn't been so short-sighted* TSMC and the like may never have become so dominant. On top of that, their hybris lead to the disastrous execution of 10nm etc.

If there are any 90s workstation veterans around, a certain amount of Schadenfreude is very much in order!

* and short-sighted in this case meant way over a decade of big fat margins and dividends.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Then... Intel became fat and complacent.

They forgot the lessens of Andy Grove. He even wrote a book about it.

 

[jpiniero]

Why did Intel and x86 get so big?

Windows

 

[GodisanAtheist]

They forgot the lessens of Andy Grove. He even wrote a book about it.

- I feel like this sums up American military spending and intervention-ism in a nutshell.

Brilliant quote.

 

[Aapje]

They forgot the lessens of Andy Grove. He even wrote a book about it.

But what's Andy Grove's agenda???!!!

 

[Ajay]

But what's Andy Grove's agenda Mission statement???!!!

Core Principles. Core values. Core Competencies. Competitive Advantages. Statement of Excellence. Customer Focused Goals. etc....

 

[Leeea]

Core Principles. Core values. Core Competencies. Competitive Advantages. Statement of Excellence. Customer Focused Goals. etc....

That is what he wants you to think ...

But what does he really want?!

Is he secretly trying to convert American corporations into delusionally paranoid constructs that devour and destroy all that might some day pose a threat to them?

Is his real goal to permanently end human cooperation and progress and bring about the extinction of the human race in an effort to insure ever increasing corporate profits?

 

[Aapje]

Core Principles. Core values. Core Competencies. Competitive Advantages. Statement of Excellence. Customer Focused Goals. etc....

You missed the joke...

 

[igor_kavinski]

Core Principles. Core values. Core Competencies. Competitive Advantages. Statement of Excellence. Customer Focused Goals. etc....

Please don't tell me that you are or were in HR at one time

 

[Dribble]

Windows

Combined with copyrighting x86 so no one else could make the cpu's other than minor players to keep the regulators happy. That meant they controlled the pc market, which meant they could be very efficient with their fabs (keep them at 100% capacity), which made them lots of money to re-invest which kept them ahead.

That couldn't last forever, and companies wised up to letting Intel dominate and take all the money (the cpu in a PC is a much larger % of total cost then it is in a phone for example). All new markets avoided x86 (mostly using ARM because it's open and cheap) and Intel didn't just lose control, they lost entire markets with their inflexible x86 always strategy (e.g. mobile).

Now x86 is a bit of an old man set in it's ways and past it's prime, windows no longer dominates like it once did (android now dominates in number of devices I suspect), and Intel is too big and slow to adapt.

 

[Ajay]

You missed the joke...

Rats .

Please don't tell me that you are or were in HR at one time

No, just read the posters on the wall