Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

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uzzi38

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Heartbreaker

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APU avoids the cost of needing an extra board, VRAM, and cooling solution. It also removes any AIB profit margin from the consideration as well.

Not seeing anyone suggest APUs are a bad idea.

Just that they aren't going to make Big Console size APUs.

AMDs current balance looks about right for the available BW, and you really can't expect more than that.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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That's why I also included Civ IV. We're really nitpicking at this point, when the leakers were so far off that in reality we didn't get any increase in perf/$ this generation at all.

not really. It's a discussion about GPU performance, so talking looking at 1080p scores and setting any kind of percentage comparison, for this era, is meaningless. Just...anything north of 150fps might as well be 5%-90%-200% different, it really just barely matters. For competitive FPS or whatevers, let's set that bar at 200FPS at and call it a day? It really doesn't matter.

If we're talking CPUs, then yes, it's worthwhile, but if you just want to compare GPU performance by frames, with flagship parts over the last 3 generations now, the only meaningful measure really is 4k FPS. It doesn't matter if you or I or anyone else plays at 4k, but it's the only frame rate you should like at if you want to make real quick comparison between GPUs in just raw performance. You can always interpolate back to your resolution if you want to, but lower resolutions aren't as meaningful for flagship parts and well, looking at architectural improvements between generations (I mean, I mostly play at 3440x1440 or...uh 7680x1440 :D...and I like to see those numbers, but I know it isn't the first thing that I need to see. I can always think about the efficiency that I might see. )
 
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insertcarehere

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Strix Point will not be overbuilt. It will be in line with what we have had till this point: sub 200 mm2 die sizes.

Yes, on N3. So as a ballpark for cost x2 that vs 5nm which makes it equivalent to sub 400mm^2 on N5. Yes, 200mm^2 on N3 for Strix Point would be in all likelihood very overkill, I expect it to be a sub 150mm^2 part.

Genuinely, this argument is completely and utterly ridiculous considering that leaked Driver data suggests that Intel is indeed bringing "overbuilt" iGPUs with MTL-P and ARL-P.

I have no idea what ARL-P is supposed to be, but last I heard MTL-P can have a 128EU part as a iGPU option, which is definitely not overbuilt compared to what ADL-P/RPL-P have already.

And you're missing the point that by doing tiling Intel isn't making all their MTL/ARL parts with the maximum level iGPU, there are already 64/128EU tiles for MTL and doubtless something similar for ARL. A monolithic Strix Point will not have such an option to modify the amount of on-die iGPU for end-consumer requirements.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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More like the other way around. NVidia is killing parts that are worse than new APU like the 680m.

What OEM is going to buy a discrete GPU when when the iGPU/APU already present is of similar performance.

yeah it seems more and more that the need for smaller, ultralight and medium laptops is more and more served by standard APUs these days.

The ROG and ALIENWARE and whatever uber gaming brick laptops for the ~$3k+ and strange heat and power choices market...is really the only rational niche audience for those type of mobile IGPs, and best served by flagship parts anyway like the x700-x900 series cards from the manufacturers. ...because you're already paying 3 grand for laptop, right?
 

MrTeal

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Dec 7, 2003
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Not seeing anyone suggest APUs are a bad idea.

Just that they aren't going to make Big Console size APUs.

AMDs current balance looks about right for the available BW, and you really can't expect more than that.
Console like APUs would actually be great IMO, you just can't get it in the typical dual channel mainstream ATX system. Maybe not for the typical AT GPU forum user, but if a Tier 1 OEM produced an ITX sized prebuilt with specs similar to a PS5 (maybe a little more RAM) along with maybe an extra PCIe, m.2 and 2.5" SATA port that would be a winner.
Hell, even being able to just buy a PS5 even without any expansion for $7-800 and a copy of Windows would be a pretty great value for 90% of people who want a PC for mid tier gaming and work/school.
 

insertcarehere

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Jan 17, 2013
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Console like APUs would actually be great IMO, you just can't get it in the typical dual channel mainstream ATX system. Maybe not for the typical AT GPU forum user, but if a Tier 1 OEM produced an ITX sized prebuilt with specs similar to a PS5 (maybe a little more RAM) along with maybe an extra PCIe, m.2 and 2.5" SATA port that would be a winner.
Hell, even being able to just buy a PS5 even without any expansion for $7-800 and a copy of Windows would be a pretty great value for 90% of people who want a PC for mid tier gaming and work/school.
Intel and AMD have tried this concept before already. Kaby Lake-G was an APU with 1060 max-q level performance and launched in early 2018, with both NUCs and laptops, it's still technically the fastest IGP today. Neither party (especially AMD) pursued this concept any further, most likely for good reason.

Its all well and good saying that a big gaming-focused APU is great for consumers when ultimately, not enough of said consumers purchase said big gaming-focused APU at pricing which would makes sense for AMD/Intel to develop such a product.
 

moinmoin

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Jun 1, 2017
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Rumors are always fun whenever they first suggest something new will happen and later on suggest that that has been cancelled again. :D

All I want is a post mortem on how AMD could be so far off with its projections for RDNA3.
 
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leoneazzurro

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Jul 26, 2016
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While a refresh may or may not come, the rumor seems quite bullshit as it was said many times that RDNA3+ was not for discrete graphic cards but it was only for APUs and thus the supposedly "fixed" cards would be still RDNA3.
 

Heartbreaker

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Rumors are always fun whenever they first suggest something new will happen and later on suggest that that has been cancelled again. :D

Yeah.

Rumor Monger clickbait A: Thing will happen.
Rumor Monger clickbait B: Thing is proving challenging.
Rumor Monger clickbait C: Thing failed and is cancelled.

Real world: Nothing.

Rumor Monger: That's three 100% correct rumors for us... :D
 

jpiniero

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Cancelling N32 makes a ton of sense if they didn't get any mobile OEM deals and they don't think they can justify a high enough price to release it on desktop.
 

insertcarehere

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Given the horrific S/N ratio of AMD leakers this generation. It's just as likely that RDNA3's problems aren't just "bugs" that can be fixed through a refresh, and that AMD would rather work on its successor rather than spend good R&D after bad.
 

leoneazzurro

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Some are for sure not bugs, like the dual issue needing quite some work in the drivers for squeezing some more performance, frankly it was even expected. Clock speeds not up the targets, if real, can or cannot be solved by a respin, it depends on how serious is the issue, because in some cases optimization/addition of metal layers and such can do maybe not miracles but a lot, in some other cases it does not work. Other bugs that were reported do not seem to affect performance in a substantial way.
 

Kaluan

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Cancelling N32 makes a ton of sense if they didn't get any mobile OEM deals and they don't think they can justify a high enough price to release it on desktop.
No it makes exactly 0 sense, GPU cycles INCLUDING MOBILE are 2 years. So what? They're not gonna have a high end mobile solution 2 CES/laptop cycles in a row just because they couldn't get theirs in on time for the first? Nah.

Not to mention, even taking the rumourmill as fact... it says nothing about canceling N32 lol
So that's a weird reach imo
 
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Stuka87

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Cancelling N32 makes a ton of sense if they didn't get any mobile OEM deals and they don't think they can justify a high enough price to release it on desktop.


The article literally says:
Additionally, the midrange Navi 33 and Navi 32 appear unaffected as the cards are on the way.

Why create a rumor that not even the rumors sites are reporting? Especially when it makes zero sense.
 
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jpiniero

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No it makes exactly 0 sense, GPU cycles INCLUDING MOBILE are 2 years. So what? They're not gonna have a high end mobile solution 2 CES/laptop cycles in a row just because they couldn't get theirs in on time for the first? Nah.

The idea is that OEMs are seeing reduced demand overall and just decide to roll with nVidia in higher end mobile. And then AMD just decides to not bother finishing the fixes if they aren't going to get any mobile deals.

It is a stretch, so we'll see how it plays out.
 
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MrTeal

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Intel and AMD have tried this concept before already. Kaby Lake-G was an APU with 1060 max-q level performance and launched in early 2018, with both NUCs and laptops, it's still technically the fastest IGP today. Neither party (especially AMD) pursued this concept any further, most likely for good reason.

Its all well and good saying that a big gaming-focused APU is great for consumers when ultimately, not enough of said consumers purchase said big gaming-focused APU at pricing which would makes sense for AMD/Intel to develop such a product.
Yeah, it was unfortunate. There was no real push from any OEMs for that kind of solution, so it never really gained traction among the consumers that would actually benefit from something like that. Unless there's marketing behind it and a consumer can see it on the front page of Dell or Lenovo's website, it won't take off.

I'm probably a bit colored by my strong desire to be able to jailbreak a PS5 or Series X and run Linux on it though, or even better Windows. Series X running Windows would be a great value for office use and PC gaming, even if it was a couple hundred dollar premium over the console version.
 
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Stuka87

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The idea is that OEMs are seeing reduced demand overall and just decide to roll with nVidia in higher end mobile. And then AMD just decides to not bother finishing the fixes if they aren't going to get any mobile deals.

It is a stretch, so we'll see how it plays out.

N32 didn't need any fixes. Its fine as is.
 

biostud

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Feb 27, 2003
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N32 didn't need any fixes. Its fine as is.
Only one problem. It is nowhere to be bought, and I don't think it is because AMD has a ton of N21 cards in stock, they want to get rid of first....

So when do you think it will be available, and will it be soon enough so that the buyers haven't given up and bought nVidia instead?
 

leoneazzurro

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Jul 26, 2016
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So why didn't they announce any mobile SKUs then?

Because it is not ready yet and no one told that it had to be ready before Q2/Q3? N32 would address quite a small part of the market anyway (large and expensive gaming laptops). N33 is the mainstream part, and the one which would sell more anyway.
 
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