ASUS announces TUF Gaming A16 laptop with up to AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS "Zen4" CPU and Radeon RX 7700S "RDNA3" GPU - VideoCardz.com
The 2023 TUF Gaming A16 Advantage Edition redefines TUF Gaming style The TUF Gaming family is all about delivering incredible gaming experiences at an affordable price. For 2023, the TUF Gaming A16 AdvantageTM Edition does just that, while redefining the family’s sense of style and offering more...
videocardz.com
Looks like at least Navi 33 laptop will be announced. This particular model has 120 W TGP.
Panino Manino
Senior member
- Jan 28, 2017
- 706
- 893
- 136
N33 looks unimpressive in their own slides. But the die is about 0.85x on similar process. It may be the most successful RDNA3 in that metric. Would be neat if they passed the savings down to consumers in the desktop 7600XT. But it'll have a $400 MSRP despite being worse in many respects than a 6700 XT 12GB you can get for $370.
Last edited:
No, it is possible. The compiler just has to work harder on instruction fusion, especially regarding the register allocation.
Or it has to fall back to wave64 which is easier to work with at the cost of lower thread occupancy.
7600M XT vs 6650M XT both at 120W.
Game clock is seeing an increase of 6.4% and boost clock is 7.3%.
Not great for N33. If that gives you linear scaling with a 17% IPC gain (which was not really independently confirmed so this is a true best case) then 7600M XT should be at most 26% faster than the 6650M XT @ 120W. Reality is probably lower than that so maybe a 20% increase.
Comparing the 7700S to the 6800S sees an 11.4% increase in game clock and a 11.2% increase in boost clock at upto 100W which suggests the V/F curve on N33 is steeper than N23 which is not ideal when put into a desktop part so I don't expect N33 for desktop for a long while.
One performance slide is missing, or at least I couldn't find It yet.
It's about 7600M XT vs RTX 3060M 6GB. RM-103
The "best" comparison is the slide RM-102, because they use Zen 3 5600x and 16GB DDR4 3600Mhz for both systems, but of course they had to compare to 6600M which has only 28CU, 2177MHz game frequency and up to 100W.
I made a comparison to real Laptops with either X 6900M or RX 6850M XT. Had to put scores for both Ultra and High settings, because there is some discrepancy with AMDs scores. I think in some games AMD didn't really set MAX settings for the tested GPUs.
It's about 7600M XT vs RTX 3060M 6GB. RM-103
The "best" comparison is the slide RM-102, because they use Zen 3 5600x and 16GB DDR4 3600Mhz for both systems, but of course they had to compare to 6600M which has only 28CU, 2177MHz game frequency and up to 100W.
I made a comparison to real Laptops with either X 6900M or RX 6850M XT. Had to put scores for both Ultra and High settings, because there is some discrepancy with AMDs scores. I think in some games AMD didn't really set MAX settings for the tested GPUs.
| Lenovo Legion 5 Link R5 5600H + 6600M or from here | Asus ROG Strix G15 Link 5800HX + RX 6800M or Corsair Voyager a1600 Link 6900HS + RX 6800M | Lenovo Legion 7 Link 6900HX + 6850M XT | RM-102 R5 5600X + RX 6600M | RM-102 R5 5600X + RX 7600M XT | |
| Control | High: 69.7 FPS | ------- | ------- | 64 FPS | 89 FPS |
| Cyberpunk 2077 | Ultra: 60.7 FPS (High: 75.1) | ------- | Ultra: 87.2 FPS (High: 106) | 67 FPS | 87 FPS |
| Horizon Zero Dawn | ------- | ------- | Ultra: 123 FPS (High: 142) | 92 FPS | 117 FPS |
| Resident Evil Village | Ultra: 146 FPS (High: 169) (CPU: R7 5800H) | Ultra: 91.9 FPS (High: 134) | ------- | 143 FPS | 176 FPS |
| Shadow of the Tomb Rider | Ultra: 105 FPS (High: 114) | Ultra: 106 FPS (High: 113) | ------- | 120 FPS | 142 FPS |
| Sniper Elite 5 | ------- | ------- | ------- | 73 FPS | 89 FPS |
| The Witcher 3 | Ultra: 81.3 FPS (High: 141) | Ultra: 110 FPS (High: 199) | Ultra: 118 FPS (High: 208) | 105 FPS | 136 FPS |
| Tiny Tina's wonderland | Ultra: 59.8 FPS (High: 77.8) (CPU: R7 5800H) | Ultra: 80.5 FPS (High: 105) | ------- | 79 FPS | 95 FPS |
Last edited:
Based on 7600M XT vs 6600M with linear clockspeed and CU gains I have an IP average of 4.35%.
That would mean the 7600M XT should perform on average around (32/32) * (2300/2162) * 1.0435 times faster than the 6650M XT or 1 * 1.064 * 1.0435 = 11% faster at the same 120W TDP.
If the desktop part matches that it would mean at best 3060Ti level performance from the 7600XT. Unless it came in at around $300 that would be a very poor replacement so this rumour the desktop N33 won't be out for a while seems fairly likely to me.
N33 is more like a replacement for N23. Smaller, a bit higher performance, a bit better efficiency.
Don't have high expectations for desktop part.
I really have to wonder If this is faster than RTX 4060.
TimeSpy Graphics
RX 6600M: 8,234 points
RX 6800S: 9,380 points
RX 7600M XT: 8,234*(1.25 or 1.3) = 10,293-10,704 points.
RX 6850M XT: 11,762 points.
RX 3050Ti: 6,122 points
RX 4050: 6,122 / 1695MHz * 2370MHz = ~8,560? points (linear scaling, in reality less)
RX 4060: 8,560 * (1.15 or 1.2) = 9,844-10,272 points
RX 4060M could end up relatively close to RX 7600M XT.
I am really interested in prices.
Don't have high expectations for desktop part.
I really have to wonder If this is faster than RTX 4060.
TimeSpy Graphics
RX 6600M: 8,234 points
RX 6800S: 9,380 points
RX 7600M XT: 8,234*(1.25 or 1.3) = 10,293-10,704 points.
RX 6850M XT: 11,762 points.
RX 3050Ti: 6,122 points
RX 4050: 6,122 / 1695MHz * 2370MHz = ~8,560? points (linear scaling, in reality less)
RX 4060: 8,560 * (1.15 or 1.2) = 9,844-10,272 points
RX 4060M could end up relatively close to RX 7600M XT.
I am really interested in prices.
At least you'll know what you are buying by looking at the name of the GPU. With Nvidia you have the same GPU name and:RX 7700S when It's weaker than 7600M XT and 4 different models?
You really need only the two RX 7600M(XT) models, 28CU + 16gbps(50-90W) and 32 CU +18gbps(75-120W). The S models are totally pointless. Congratulations, AMD marketing department, you are utter mor*ns.
- vastly different TDPs
- vastly different RAM bus width and size
Not speaking about the fact mobile 4090 is a cut 4080 but they did not even add "M" at the end.
Last edited:
Are you sure?
If you are talking about desktop vs laptop, then AMD naming is clearly no better.
For example: N23 is used for 6600S, 6600M, 6650M, 6650M XT, 6700S, 6800S, with hard to tell TGP range, and you are saying I know what I am buying with AMD? BS
Nvidia doesn't add "M" suffix at the end of GPU name from RTX 30 series, instead It adds Laptop at the end.
So what's the actual problem with RTX 40 laptop series? Ok, everything is moved a tier higher compared to desktop, and you have to watch the actual TDP range which is very large, but Nvidia's webpage shows the specs in a simple clear manner, easy to understand the differences. Finally, there is no Ti suffix at the end at least for now.
AMD announced a single N33 chip and from that they already made 4 models, where 2 are totally pointless, because they are already included in the other two.
On AMD's webpage you don't have a single common table like Nvidia with most of the info included, so It's harder to see or compare the differences.
The only thing AMD did better is that they mention gaming frequency.
Nvidia's naming for the new laptop generation is better than AMD's and models are clearly differentiated by specs.
Last edited:
Yes I am sure and let's agree to disagree. 3060 8Gb vs 3060 12 Gb is a mess far worse than every 7600XT/7700S confusion. And it's not guaranteed we will not see something like that again. Not to mention than in the table you link the same name is given to GPUs from 35W to 115W TDP, or from 50W to 150W. Yeah. Yes, we know it's up to the OEM but, seriously? Yes, AMD also gives TDP variation in its specs but in a smaller range.
Last edited:
What's so bad about 3060 8GB vs 3060 12 GB? The same GA106 chip with 128bit 8GB instead of 192bit 12GB. You know what's different from the name.
On the other hand you have N33 based RX 7600s 8GB, 7600M 8GB, 7600M XT 8GB and 7700S 8GB. What's the difference? No one knows from name and you would expect that 7700S is the fastest one, yet It's not.
Nvidia could release new Ada models later with Ti suffix, but who says AMD won't make more models based on N33? They still didn't use 7650M or 7650M XT.
Adding Ti to the name as a way to show It's a faster GPU is okay in my opinion, although I would prefer a higher number but RTX 4055 would look a bit funny.
Nvidia has a much bigger difference in TGP than AMD, true, but why do you need a different name for It when TGP should be mentioned in specs for that laptop?
Then would you give a new name to every model with a different TGP?
TGPs could be these: 35W, 45W, 55W, 65W, 75W, 85W, 95W, 105W and 115W, that's 9 different TGPs in total.
| 35 W | 45 W | 55 W | 65 W | 75 W | 85 W | 95 W | 105 W | 115 W | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2560 Cuda Ada107 | RTX 4050 | RTX 4051 | RTX 4052 | RTX 4053 | RTX 4054 | RTX 4055 | RTX 4056 | RTX 4057 | RTX 4058 |
| 3072 Cuda Ada107 | RTX 4060 | RTX 4061 | RTX 4062 | RTX 4063 | RTX 4064 | RTX 4065 | RTX 4066 | RTX 4067 | RTX 4068 |
| 4608 Cuda Ada106 | RTX 4070 | RTX 4071 | RTX 4072 | RTX 4073 | RTX 4074 | RTX 4075 | RTX 4076 | RTX 4077 | RTX 4078 |
The bad about 3060 8GB vs 3060 12gb (but also the 6gb exists) is that with the same name you sell GPUs with big performance difference, as they were the same. Not even speaking about the eight 3050 variants out there. At least the "S" moniker tells you that the 7700S is a different beast from a 7700M XT.
The problem of having bigger brackets for the TDP is that the performance difference with the same name will vary more. What is the performance experience a laptop user will have with a 4080 50W? And you will be sure that these laptops will be sold as having a "4080" on board, with a price set accordingly.
Finally, if one should look at the specs of the laptop he wants to buy, what is the difference?
Why with AMD is "confusing" and with Nvidia is "good"? Both publish their specs.
Why 4 models based on the same GPU are bad when every single model is identified in specs by the name, when in Nvidia case you can get the same name and have different specs or different chips, and it is good?
To me, both are misleading but Nvidia is misleading more, especially with those power brackets set so wide.
The problem of having bigger brackets for the TDP is that the performance difference with the same name will vary more. What is the performance experience a laptop user will have with a 4080 50W? And you will be sure that these laptops will be sold as having a "4080" on board, with a price set accordingly.
Finally, if one should look at the specs of the laptop he wants to buy, what is the difference?
Why with AMD is "confusing" and with Nvidia is "good"? Both publish their specs.
Why 4 models based on the same GPU are bad when every single model is identified in specs by the name, when in Nvidia case you can get the same name and have different specs or different chips, and it is good?
To me, both are misleading but Nvidia is misleading more, especially with those power brackets set so wide.
Last edited:
N33 is like 200mm^2 on N6 so expecting a performance worldbeater was always unrealistic, especially in light of how N31 performed.
Back in August, Angstronomics, the guy who first leaked accurate RDNA3 gpu specs, had this to say:
Instead of being realistic about what the above meant some people (both on this forum and elsewhere) went wild and interpreted that N33 would match N21 or something, which is funny because N33 could be a big disappointment and still prove his prediction accurate.
Stuka87
Diamond Member
- Dec 10, 2010
- 6,235
- 2,546
- 136
Mobile GPU's tend to be dictated by what OEMs want. AMD doesn't sell mobile GPUs to end users. OEMs choose the GPU they want for specific machines based on many different factors (Cost, speed, TDP, etc).RX 7700S when It's weaker than 7600M XT and 4 different models?
You really need only the two RX 7600M(XT) models, 28CU + 16gbps(50-90W) and 32 CU +18gbps(75-120W). The S models are totally pointless. Congratulations, AMD marketing department, you are utter mor*ns.
At least AMD has 'M' in the model number. Unlike nVidia where they are calling their top mobile chip RTX 4090, even though it uses an entirely different chip than a desktop 4090.
If you check the notes, the 3060 used in the AMD tests were desktop versions, while the 7600M XT was used probably at max specified TDP (120W) which may not be far from the desktop version, but probably lower and on the N33 side there was also the fact that it was tested with a 5600X as a CPU versus a 7600X on the NV testbed. This of course if these numbers and the footnotes can be trusted, as this presentation is probably the worst ever on AMD's side, looking at the errors and typos all around.
N33 and Phoenix's iGPU seem to be better than N31, especially when you take into account that the former is using N6, but with AMD's disastrous presentation and their lies from the N31 presentation, I'm going to wait and see until they're in reviewers' hands.
I just found out that not every shop automatically shows the amount of Vram and TGP for Nvidia laptops. My shop luckily shows both, so I don't have to check anything more and this affected my opinion(stance). This doesn't mean I wouldn't check out reviews, but first I can choose a few laptops which I like and then buy based on tests.
3060 8GB and 3060 12GB are desktop models. If there is no mention of VRAM, but the name is the same, then customer can make a mistake and he loses 15% of performance in this case.
If you think about It, this is a much smaller problem than what could happen in laptops.
If they don't mention TGP then you can buy RTX 3050 35W but expect performance of RTX 3050 80W, this way the customer can loose up to 39% of performance.
RTX 4050-4070 have 35-115W so It's likely even worse.
You have 7700S vs 7600M XT so they should be different.
You have 7600S vs 7600M so they should be different.
Are they different? They are actually not, they are exactly the same. Chip, speed of memory, amount of memory. There is not even difference in TGP, because those "S" ones are already included in M models. AMD should have released only 7600M and 7600M XT, the S variant doesn't have a reason to exist in this case.
I think ADA laptop has better naming than Ampere laptop had, but I would probably bring back M(mobile) and that TGP is a problem.
If you don't check the actual TGP then you will loose more performance with Nvidia than AMD.
I don't have an idea how to include TGP in the name, but I am not against different TGPs, even If It's a lot.
I don't like N33's names. If there "needs" to be 4 models, then I would change It to this along with TGP, so there won't be a situation where lower numbered model would outperfom the higher numbered one.
RX 7600S -> RX 7600M 50-65W
RX 7600M -> RX 7600M XT 70-85W
RX 7700S -> RX 7650M 90-105W
RX 7600M XT -> RX 7650M XT 110-125W
M - mobile
**00 - cut die
**50 - uncut die
XT - higher TGP
I think this reply should be ok with you, right?
Phoenix IGP's boost is 3GHz at 45W TDP. This is a very nice surprice.
RX 7600M XT is only 2.6GHz at 120W. I think N33 is mediocre at best, a smaller process would have been better.
It's nothing mindblowing, but pretty good and using N6 lowers the cost significantly. If AMD isn't fudging the numbers, based on the comparison with the desktop 3060, it's approximately 6650 XT (180W) performance at 120W with a smaller die size than N23 on the same node.
Propose this to AMD lol. There is a difference in TDP range AND clock speed though (game clocks are different between the 7600M XT and the 7700S, and between the 7600M and 7600S). So while similar in specs, they are not the same. Also, in AMD's case one can have a rough estimation of the specs (exact TDP apart) only from the name.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 20K
-
Solved! Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)- Started by Vattila
- Replies: 12K
-
-
-
Question Geekbench 6 released and calibrated against Core i7-12700
- Started by igor_kavinski
- Replies: 275
Facebook
Twitter