Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

Page 92 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
2,705
6,427
146
All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,114
6,770
136
If we look back through this thread and plot out the possible clock speeds people have been suggesting we've probably gone from something like 1.8 GHz > 2 GHz > 2.2 GHz > 2.5 GHz > 3 GHz so if we're to extrapolate I think the hype train will probably get us all the way to 4 GHz given the current acceleration and time remaining until launch.

We may even be reaching a point where this thing is going fast enough to lift off and turn into some kind of hype plane.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
9,301
3,442
136
www.teamjuchems.com
Were these confirmed for the Mac Pro only? The iMac and iMac Pro don't get mobile GPUs.

How manny Apple SKUs are going to get third party GPU going forward after the great Apple Silicon Revolution? Probably just the Mac Pro and maybe the iMac Pro?

They’ve already put a 10 core Intel CPU in that, I feel like when they have an ARM CPU using was less power they’ll have a decent thermal envelope to work with.

No idea on the mobile front what is happening.🤷‍♂️
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,803
4,777
136
If we look back through this thread and plot out the possible clock speeds people have been suggesting we've probably gone from something like 1.8 GHz > 2 GHz > 2.2 GHz > 2.5 GHz > 3 GHz so if we're to extrapolate I think the hype train will probably get us all the way to 4 GHz given the current acceleration and time remaining until launch.

We may even be reaching a point where this thing is going fast enough to lift off and turn into some kind of hype plane.
5GHz confirmed! Its AMD, after all. They were not able to deliver 5GHz dream on Zen 2's but for sure will deliver GPUs with those clock speeds!
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,803
4,777
136
How manny Apple SKUs are going to get third party GPU going forward after the great Apple Silicon Revolution? Probably just the Mac Pro and maybe the iMac Pro?

They’ve already put a 10 core Intel CPU in that, I feel like when they have an ARM CPU using was less power they’ll have a decent thermal envelope to work with.

No idea on the mobile front what is happening.🤷‍♂️
Usually in Pro lineups Apple has 2 or 3 SKUs based on one die.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,803
4,777
136
Few things to add about MacOS power tables.

IF those power tables are for Apple GPUs, those are the specs within which the Apple GPUs have to operate. The TDP is for WHOLE GPU BOARDS, that are connected to Macs, or rather, Radeon Pro versions.

Otherwise, its just what DisEnchantment explained. Another power table that came from AMD.

If we will find BIOSes for those GPUs in MacOS, then we are at home. From those BIOSes we can get everything related to clock gating, voltages, power gates, etc.

For example, Radeon Pro D700 have had 129W TDP, for whole board, with 1.025v, clocked at 850 MHz. It was possible to exctract the exact details from MacOS back in the day. I don't know if its still possible.
Ok, I now need to correct this.

The data about Radeon Pro D700 is pulled from the GPU BIOS. Its the same situation as is for Radeon Pro 5700 and 5700 XT in Apple MacOS.

The data pulled from the OS is the typical spec, for specific die that system has to work with.

This is the reason why, you can put for example Radeon RX 5600 XT into MacPro and it will work out of the box, but with the typical Radeon RX 5600 XT clock speeds(for example1650 MHz game clock and 1715 MHz Boost clock).

You can't extract GPU BIOS without having the GPUs on your hands. The data, for Radeon Pro D700 and for Radeon Pro 5700 and 5700 XT that is on the TechPowerUp database is straight from the GPUs. Also Radeon Pro 5700 and 5700 XT 130W TDP is for WHOLE BOARD. GPU+Memory subsystem.

So those power targets that we have seen leaked may not be final, and Apple versions will still be more efficient, and clocked lower, however, IMO, the details about Navi 21A and 21B are so highly specific that I believe this might actually be something very close to what will be possible to be pulled from the GPU BIOSes. At least, those might be close to final Navi21 based Apple SKUs, with those, exact specs.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,505
2,249
136
If AMD has a 5ghz GPU (they don't) they have to call it the Bulldozer Edition (they really do)

That would be a bad idea....Playing on a successful offering would be best. Maybe something like FrameCrusher would be best.

2.5GHz is probably pushing it. Wait and see what happens in the end. It is what it is in the end.
 

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,767
773
136
That would be a bad idea....Playing on a successful offering would be best. Maybe something like FrameCrusher would be best.

2.5GHz is probably pushing it. Wait and see what happens in the end. It is what it is in the end.
I apologize, I figured the /s was sufficiently represented by 5ghz clocks and naming something after bulldozer.
 

Tup3x

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2016
1,086
1,085
136
There's no real evidence to suggest that those are even correct. I'd find it very odd that the clock speeds would regress. Though, it's possible that they have totally overhauled how the boost works but even then it would be be a bit weird to have that low base clock.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
My prediction for the two top cards with todays info.

RX6900XT with 16GB HBM2E ram / ~RTX3090 raster performance at $1299
RX6800XT with 16GB HBM2E ram / ~RTX3080 raster performance at $699

That's a lot of extra money for a pitiful amount of performance. The 3090 (kinda) gets away with it because the memory has professional applications. $899 is more realistic for a card with with only a little performance differentiation. Not having CUDA would be a huge dealbreaker for other uses.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,475
136
Come on guys, its not me who posted 2500 MHz core clocks into the MacOS specs.

Its not my fault for this hype train, its Apple!

Why is everyone surprised that RDNA2 can clock 2.5 Ghz when the Renoir APU with Vega gfx overclocked to 2.4 Ghz. In fact if anything at minimum 2.5 Ghz was to be expected given RDNA2 is AMD's latest and best GPU arch and incorporates the best physical design methodologies utilized by the "Zen" CPU team. Obviously > 2.5 Ghz is not so likely. 3 Ghz is probably going to happen on TSMC N5P or N3.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,803
4,777
136
Why is everyone surprised that RDNA2 can clock 2.5 Ghz when the Renoir APU with Vega gfx overclocked to 2.4 Ghz. In fact if anything at minimum 2.5 Ghz was to be expected given RDNA2 is AMD's latest and best GPU arch and incorporates the best physical design methodologies utilized by the "Zen" CPU team. Obviously > 2.5 Ghz is not so likely. 3 Ghz is probably going to happen on TSMC N5P or N3.
I still cannot believe it, sorry Raghu :p

My personal expectation was that it will top out at 2.3 GHz, and nothing more. 2.5 GHz is well beyond what I though was possible, maybe not on TSMC's process, but possible for AMD capabilities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97 and Saylick

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,166
7,666
136
In my opinion AMD can't lauch anything for more that $800-900. They must know that people will not buy a AMD gaming card for $1000. They are not Nvidia.

- Exactly this. If AMD has a 3090 competitor, expect $999 price tag tops.

Premium brands (like NV and Apple) can get away with a mondo "brand tax" while their competitors will always have to charge substantially less for the same performance because if prices are equal you might as well go with the name brand.

This tax only magnifies the higher into a price bracket you go So a 10% price difference at $500 will need to be a 50% price difference at $1500. You can see AMD following a similar principal with their Zen line where the further up the bracket you go,the bigger the % price difference between them and the Intel equivalent.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,475
136
In my opinion AMD can't lauch anything for more that $800-900. They must know that people will not buy a AMD gaming card for $1000. They are not Nvidia.

So you are saying if AMD have a flagship N21 GPU with 16 GB HBM2E for $1000 or even $1200 which is 5-10% faster than RTX 3090 FE AMD will not sell out every unit they make. I will take a bet with you that they will sell every unit they manufacture.
 

DiogoDX

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
747
279
136
So you are saying if AMD have a flagship N21 GPU with 16 GB HBM2E for $1000 or even $1200 which is 5-10% faster than RTX 3090 FE AMD will not sell out every unit they make. I will take a bet with you that they will sell every unit they manufacture.
They will sell but not for gamers. In the high prices the brand power is a stronger factor. I can bet with you even if AMD is 20% faster than the 3090 for $1000 we will see the major of streamers/youtubers and high end users in the foruns still buying Nvidia.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,803
4,777
136
They will sell but not for gamers. In the high prices the brand power is a stronger factor. I can bet with you even if AMD is 20% faster than the 3090 for $1000 we will see the major of streamers/youtubers and high end users in the foruns still buying Nvidia.
Well guys. You better believe that AMD will price their product correctly. Look at Ryzen CPUs.

If AMD has better product than Nvidia, you can bet they will deliver better value, but at the same time - with apropriate premium.

999$ is what I expect for 6900XT, especially if it is going to be 10% faster than RTX 3090, and more efficient.

Heck, I would expect 999$ for 6900XT even if it would be 5% slower than RTX 3090, but that card is huge disappointment.