Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

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uzzi38

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All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html
 

blckgrffn

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I am more inclined to believe closer to 300w than 150w for the PS5 just based on how large (and frankly unwieldy) the chassis is this time around. It's either that or believing that Sony's engineers are straight up bad at their jobs, as the X1X is tiny in comparison and can still dissipate ~175-180W of heat without much trouble.
View attachment 30479
View attachment 30480

I’ve read that Sony absolutely hated the acoustics of the PS4 Pro. Given how much a larger chassis costs, it seems silly that they pursued that alone, but maybe that plays into it as well?

I like never hearing my consoles outside of disc access spin-up, I am hopeful the PS5 delivers on that.

🤷‍♂️

I personally don’t care how tiny things are. That’s not a feature I shop for in my consoles. It always annoyed me on the WiiU (proud owner with the other 9 fools!) that they bragged up its thinness then it had a tiny fan that spun way up even though its power usage must have been relatively trivial. The retail cardboard box was already enormous because of the controller tablet, making the console case 50% taller to have a bigger heatsink and fan wouldn’t have killed anyone. /rant (Yeah I am that guy with a full atx case sitting next to my tower speakers, it balances out the look with the sub on the other side. In my living room 😛)
 

blckgrffn

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XBOX X has sucks in cold air from the bottom and forces it out at the top. It's the most efficient design if you think about it.

Like the Apple Trashcan Pro, but for the masses!

hahaha, jokes on me. I just read up on that model and appears heat soak killed the GPUs in those things dead super fast and Apple had basically no trade in value on them. So, I hope it’s way better than that!

Beyond the rounded vs monolithic look they look pretty similar. But the total TDP on a loaded Mac Pro of that vintage must have been potentially quite high...

Series X: 11” tall, 6” wide. Cooling 200W, tops.

Mac Pro Can: 10” tall, 7” wide. Over 400w according to Anandtech. Ouch.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/14 (final graph)
 
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insertcarehere

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Jan 17, 2013
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I personally don’t care how tiny things are. That’s not a feature I shop for in my consoles. It always annoyed me on the WiiU (proud owner with the other 9 fools!) that they bragged up its thinness then it had a tiny fan that spun way up even though its power usage must have been relatively trivial. The retail cardboard box was already enormous because of the controller tablet, making the console case 50% taller to have a bigger heatsink and fan wouldn’t have killed anyone. /rant (Yeah I am that guy with a full atx case sitting next to my tower speakers, it balances out the look with the sub on the other side. In my living room 😛)

Different strokes for different folks I guess, just took a look at our living room and the PS5 wouldn't fit on the entertainment center as is without significantly reshuffling everything else, the series X could probably fit behind the TV but neither would work well in the bedroom (where any console would probably be), my monitors/TVs will still be 1080p for the time being so Series S looks mighty attractive.
 
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uzzi38

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Apologies for the double post, but this was posted last week. I don't think it was posted here? It's a look into Devil May Cry 5 on the PS5 using raytrace ability on RDNA2.

4k30 FPS with RTRT enabled for both reflections and GI?

That doesn't sound impressive at first, but consider that the 5700XT averages about 47 FPS on average in DMCV at 4K.

That sounds pretty well optimised if nothing else.

Also, at the end they said RT off for up to 120fps, I'm assuming they mean 1080p120 and potentially 4K60. If they manage that second one, that's nearly a 30% improvement over the 5700XT again.

Not bad at all.


9766e00956f3201169250fa08021019a.jpg
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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May 1, 2020
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4k30 FPS with RTRT enabled for both reflections and GI?

That doesn't sound impressive at first, but consider that the 5700XT averages about 47 FPS on average in DMCV at 4K.

That sounds pretty well optimised if nothing else.

Also, at the end they said RT off for up to 120fps, I'm assuming they mean 1080p120 and potentially 4K60. If they manage that second one, that's nearly a 30% improvement over the 5700XT again.

Not bad at all.


9766e00956f3201169250fa08021019a.jpg
RTX 2080 also manages 60FPS in 4K, so If 52CU RDNA2 manages only the same performance(FPS) with same image quality , then I don't see what's so great about that.

edit: so It's PS5 and not Xbox. That would be pretty good.
 
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A///

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Feb 24, 2017
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4k30 FPS with RTRT enabled for both reflections and GI?

That doesn't sound impressive at first, but consider that the 5700XT averages about 47 FPS on average in DMCV at 4K.

That sounds pretty well optimised if nothing else.

Also, at the end they said RT off for up to 120fps, I'm assuming they mean 1080p120 and potentially 4K60. If they manage that second one, that's nearly a 30% improvement over the 5700XT again.

Not bad at all.
Considering the PS5 and Xbox's have a cut down GPU the performance difference should be noticeable. The PS5 RDNA2 based GPU is a 36 CU unit. The lowest Big Navi is a 60 CU part for PC, correct? There was some discussion of the graphics not being too good where I got that video link from. We don't know how old that gameplay video is and this game is not due for another month. It's also built atop a game that came out a year ago and wasn't designed with RT in mind. It's a good effort.

TechPowerUp had this to say to about the Series X GPU. I'm afraid I don't know much about AMD GPUs to understand how powerful a CU or if a double CU is less than two good separate CUs.


The RDNA2 GPU powering the Xbox Series X SoC features 52 compute units spread across 26 RDNA2 dual compute units. The silicon itself physically features two additional dual CUs (taking the total physical CU count to 56), but are disabled (possibly harvesting headroom).



I bring up the consoles because I was thoroughly confused by your post. That video is PS5 video, not PC video. It doesn't seem like there's plans to bring it to PC for now. Your 30% figure should be higher given the cut down GPU in the consoles. This new gen of consoles brings a lot of value to the console market, but I do not think they'll be on the same footing as PCs. Close but not the same.
 
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Glo.

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2500 MHz is 33% above RX 5700 XT clock speeds. And that excludes all IPC gains of RDNA2 architecture.

My mind is blown. Even I did not expected stuff like this.

Edit. With IPC increases, this, 40 CU GPU will rival RTX 2080 Ti performance levels. At 170W of power drawn.
 

Hitman928

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There is a possiblity that Navi 24 might be 64 CU GPU, or that AMD will reuse Navi 21 die.

Guys. There is mind blowing info there.

Navi 21 has 240W TDP at 2200 MHz.
Navi 22 has 170W at ... 2500 MHz.

O_O

What the hell?

I would expect that to just be a frequency bin cap, doesn't necessarily mean it will actually boost that high, especially under any kind of real load. AMD seems quietly confident with RDNA2 to me, we'll see if that's true or not soon enough.
 

itsmydamnation

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I would expect that to just be a frequency bin cap, doesn't necessarily mean it will actually boost that high, especially under any kind of real load. AMD seems quietly confident with RDNA2 to me, we'll see if that's true or not soon enough.
If they are the power play tables then they are real world clocks, just look at navi 10 for reference.
 

Glo.

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If they are the power play tables then they are real world clocks, just look at navi 10 for reference.
Yep. Its worth adding those are GPUs for Apple, and those usually have lower power and lower clock speeds, compared to desktop GPUs.

I think the PP values are upper limit(hard power gate) that those GPU should not exceed at any conditions. But here I might be wrong. It was long time ago that I was interested and rooted in Apple software.
 
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Konan

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There is a possiblity that Navi 24 might be 64 CU GPU, or that AMD will reuse Navi 21 die.

Guys. There is mind blowing info there.

Navi 21 has 240W TDP at 2200 MHz.
Navi 22 has 170W at ... 2500 MHz.

O_O

What the hell?

Add memory (say 50w) and power delivery (40-50W?) watts to the 238W of N21
Then you have something going for the 3080
 

TESKATLIPOKA

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There is a possiblity that Navi 24 might be 64 CU GPU, or that AMD will reuse Navi 21 die.

Guys. There is mind blowing info there.

Navi 21 has 240W TDP at 2200 MHz.
Navi 22 has 170W at ... 2500 MHz.

O_O

What the hell?
Is that the clockspeed max turbo? Is socket_power_limit_ac TBP or just TDP?
Navi 21 will have a lot better perf/W ratio than Navi 22.
I kinda don't understand why between Navi 21 vs Navi 22 is 40CU difference, but between Navi 22 vs Navi 23 is only 8CU? Navi 23 won't be much smaller than Navi22. BTW It looks like Navi 21 will have 384bit GDDR6.
I want to know what is the actual die size for Navi22 and Navi23, because It doesn't look like It's 360mm^2 and 240mm^2 what was leaked before.
BTW I don't understand how is AMD planning to go against Tiger Lake with only 8CU Vega. At least Rebrand has 12CU RDNA2, but It will take some time until It's released.
 

Glo.

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Add memory (say 50w) and power delivery (40-50W?) watts to the 238W of N21
Then you have something going for the 3080
No. Its the upper limit, for total GPU board power.

Look at the Power tables for Navi 1X GPUs. That 238W is the total board power for N21 if the history of how Apple treats their GPUs is anything to go by.
 

DisEnchantment

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Yep. Its worth adding those are GPUs for Apple, and those usually have lower power and lower clock speeds, compared to desktop GPUs.

I think the PP values are upper limit(hard power gate) that those GPU should not exceed at any conditions. But here I might be wrong. It was long time ago that I was interested and rooted in Apple software.
PP tables are the same everywhere for the same HW. Concept is the same.
PP tables are soft limits. You can overwrite them, like how Igor is doing with his tool. (MorePowerTool)
Hard limits are in the atombios.
 

Konan

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Jul 28, 2017
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No. Its the upper limit, for total GPU board power.

Look at the Power tables for Navi 1X GPUs. That 238W is the total board power for N21 if the history of how Apple treats their GPUs is anything to go by.

I saw the power tables. Might not have anything to do with apple as the OP says.
So it’s an unknown right now it could be potentially another hundred watts added on.
 
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