Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

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uzzi38

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Oct 16, 2019
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All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html
 

MrTeal

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Dec 7, 2003
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I don't know if the pace has slowed with the newer consoles, but the PS2 had 18 revisions. Not only were they fixing issues, but the system continued to simplify and reduce in cost throughout its run. Rev 1 is going to be the most expensive and riskiest version of the console you produces, I don't imagine a manufacturer would want to produce any more of them than they need to make it to the next improved version.
 

insertcarehere

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Jan 17, 2013
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I don't know if the pace has slowed with the newer consoles, but the PS2 had 18 revisions. Not only were they fixing issues, but the system continued to simplify and reduce in cost throughout its run. Rev 1 is going to be the most expensive and riskiest version of the console you produces, I don't imagine a manufacturer would want to produce any more of them than they need to make it to the next improved version.

The PS2 had a 13 year production run, started production on a 250nm process and ended up in 65nm, which allowed much of those revisions. I don't see much gains on the table for new-gen console revisions in the near term with a mature 7nm process, chassis designed to dissipate the chipset power, and digital-only console versions at launch.
 

A///

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Feb 24, 2017
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The PS2 had a 13 year production run, started production on a 250nm process and ended up in 65nm, which allowed much of those revisions. I don't see much gains on the table for new-gen console revisions in the near term with a mature 7nm process, chassis designed to dissipate the chipset power, and digital-only console versions at launch.
Today's hardware also has less moving parts and is generally more reliable than ever before. I think the first half of the PS2's life was plagued with drive/laser issues.
 
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Hitman928

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I don't know if the pace has slowed with the newer consoles, but the PS2 had 18 revisions. Not only were they fixing issues, but the system continued to simplify and reduce in cost throughout its run. Rev 1 is going to be the most expensive and riskiest version of the console you produces, I don't imagine a manufacturer would want to produce any more of them than they need to make it to the next improved version.

This is what Wikipedia has for the PS4

1600187450778.png

Looks like the first revision came out about a year after launch which means they were probably getting updated parts (where necessary) from suppliers for the new consoles about 6 - 8 months after the PS4 launched. I don't know what was updated in the new revision.
 

MrTeal

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Dec 7, 2003
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This is what Wikipedia has for the PS4

View attachment 29891

Looks like the first revision came out about a year after launch which means they were probably getting updated parts (where necessary) from suppliers for the new consoles about 6 - 8 months after the PS4 launched. I don't know what was updated in the new revision.
Within those versions how many PCB/part revisions were there though, if any? IE, what about the xx's? At least with the fat PS2, there were 11 revisions most without apparent outside changes other than the exact model number or even serial number sequence. The internals could be wildly different though.
 

Hitman928

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Within those versions how many PCB/part revisions were there though, if any? IE, what about the xx's? At least with the fat PS2, there were 11 revisions most without apparent outside changes other than the exact model number or even serial number sequence. The internals could be wildly different though.

It's a good question but I don't know, I don't follow consoles very closely, this was just what a quick google search came up with.
 

Hitman928

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Within those versions how many PCB/part revisions were there though, if any? IE, what about the xx's? At least with the fat PS2, there were 11 revisions most without apparent outside changes other than the exact model number or even serial number sequence. The internals could be wildly different though.

Another quick google search found this:


It says the XX numbers are regional codes.

So based on this info and the above Wikipedia chart, it seems the PS4 went through yearly revisions up to 2017. If the PS5 were to follow the same pattern, then starting mid next year Sony would already be on new chip/component revisions for consoles to come out 4Q2021.
 

Hitman928

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If that's true, there was ~15M or so of Rev 1 of the original PS4. I don't think this is that crazy if Sony is seeing another console selling north of 100M units.

15M seems a bit high. Sony said they sold 10M PS4s by Aug 2014. Some google searching shows the revised console was on store shelves by Sept 2014. Obviously there will be some overlap, but the overwhelming majority of the 4Q sales of 2014 should have been the new console at that point.
 

blckgrffn

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www.teamjuchems.com
Fair enough. The link I posted earlier had either just over 10M through the first three quarters or ~13.5M sold through the first four quarters.

August 2014 would have been an awkward time to get a total as the is in the middle of one the quarters Sony reports. Their fiscal year appears to start on April 1st. Q2 would then end at the end of September.

Anyway, IMO hair splitting. We'll see if being bullish pays off. I think it will, the relative utility of a gaming console has shot up in the pandemic times and will likely only increase during the winter here in the US. Escapism ftw.
 

Hitman928

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Fair enough. The link I posted earlier had either just over 10M through the first three quarters or ~13.5M sold through the first four quarters.

August 2014 would have been an awkward time to get a total as the is in the middle of one the quarters Sony reports. Their fiscal year appears to start on April 1st.

I don't know how accurate Statista is in their numbers. Thankfully Sony was bragging up and down about their console sales in the first couple of years of the PS4's life so it's easy to get accurate numbers, lol.
 

kurosaki

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Feb 7, 2019
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Keep in mind Nvidia doesn't have an axial blower. They have one fan acting as you describe, and then one pushing air unobstructed through a large fin array at the back of the card. Looking at least at the information that's public so far I would imagine the back fan is responsible for dissipating several times more heat than the front fan.
Of course the axial "blower" has to dissipate quite a lot of air and heat. The card would probably burn out, at least throttle very hard of one functioning fan only. Best bet is that at least 40% heat is going out from the back. Would be easy enough to stop one fan at a time and observe throttling/ high temps.
 

DisEnchantment

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Mar 3, 2017
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VCN 3.0 of Navi2x supports AV1.

The hilarious thing is that they used magic numbers all along, and replaced them recently with defines :eek:
So the support was there but no one knows what the magic hex mask is all about until they replaced it with a define

Sienna gets PCI IDs :D



C:
+    {0x1002, 0x73A0, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, CHIP_SIENNA_CICHLID},
+    {0x1002, 0x73A2, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, CHIP_SIENNA_CICHLID},
+    {0x1002, 0x73A3, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, CHIP_SIENNA_CICHLID},
+    {0x1002, 0x73AB, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, CHIP_SIENNA_CICHLID},
+    {0x1002, 0x73AE, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, CHIP_SIENNA_CICHLID},
+    {0x1002, 0x73BF, PCI_ANY_ID, PCI_ANY_ID, 0, 0, CHIP_SIENNA_CICHLID}


There are VRS registers as well.
 
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GodisanAtheist

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Nov 16, 2006
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I guess we're out in left field here, but Black Griffin makes a good point about front loading sales. I doubt data exists publicly, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that launch console sales end up being much more profitable for Sony and MS, even with cost cutting revisions that are launched later.

A launch console is an opportunity to sell someone every brand new sparkling $60 $70 game and the associated licensing fees. People who buy the console later might simply never buy older games or if they do they will buy them at a significant discount with lower margins.

Additionally, Covid is a double edged sword: Yes a lot of people are hurting in terms of money, but there are also a lot of other people who have nothing but digital experiences competing for their money. With nowhere to go and nothing to do, even people that might have waited for a better deal might have money in their pocket to pick up a new console at launch.

I can see the logic of picking up a large number of chips and making sure that some stir crazy customer with a wad of cash in their hand doesn't buy your competitor's console or something else entirely.
 
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MrTeal

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Of course the axial "blower" has to dissipate quite a lot of air and heat. The card would probably burn out, at least throttle very hard of one functioning fan only. Best bet is that at least 40% heat is going out from the back. Would be easy enough to stop one fan at a time and observe throttling/ high temps.
What on earth are you basing that on? A 60/40 split is extremely unlikely given how much more air the back fan would move at similar power and noise levels. It wouldn't be as simple as stopping one fan and measuring GPU temperature, as that is not going to be the sole source of heat on the card. That, and even if you stop the front fan you might very well end up with a situation where the die remains cool connected to the back fin array with massive heatpipes, but the VRMs that rely on the front fan for cooling begin to overheat and throttle. If you really want to see how much each fan is exhausting in normal conditions, duct both IO and back exhaust through air velocity meters to measure CFM, and monitor intake and output temperatures to calculate the actual heat dissipated.
 
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Hitman928

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Midwayman

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TBH Sony could be saying the target hasn't changed, and the original report could just be that there will be a shortfall. They didn't refute any of the production issues.
 

blckgrffn

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www.teamjuchems.com

A///

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Biggest news out of that is how they are using air freight. That is crazy expensive atm and even more proof they are committing to having as many available in 2020.
Yeah, wasn't that reported a month ago? I didn't think anything of it but I don't subscribe to Freight Life myself.
 

Hitman928

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TBH Sony could be saying the target hasn't changed, and the original report could just be that there will be a shortfall. They didn't refute any of the production issues.

This is what Sony said:

The information provided by Bloomberg is false
We have not changed the production number for PlayStation 5

How is that not refuting the rumor of production issues?
 
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