Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[dr1337]

Performance looks reasonable, MSRP is terrible but obviously that doesn't really matter for the foreseeable future. Its gonna be interesting to see how far n22 can really clock though, if anyone actually gets their hands on one that is.

 

[gdansk]

Should be $400 or $450 like its predecessor but it's all going to sell anyway. They'd still sell if they priced them at $600.

Waiting to see independent reviews, wonder about that infinity cache scaling at 4K.

 

[Head1985]

So we went from 2016 230USD midrange rx480 to 2019 400USD midrange 5700XT.And now we have 480USD 2021 6700XT "midrange".
6700XT will be by far worst card in lineup.It will not by faster than 3070.Probably it will be average at 3060TI level and without DLSS and RT performance.
RT performance will be pretty much half of RX 6800XT/6900XT/RTX3070(Only 40RT "cores" vs 76 on 6800XT)
So if i have in quake2 RTX 50fps with 6800XT then 6700XT will have around 25fps.Same with metro Exodus if i have 50-60FPS with RT ultra then 6700XT will have 25-30fps.So RT performance will be crap.

They asking 3070 money for slower card and without DLSS and RT performance.In normal condition i would say AMD is crazy, but i think they just wanted make money on miners.Should be 380USD card at max for 3060TI perf and without DLSS/RT.
EDIT looks like AMD fans dont want hear truth.So much downvotes lol.Btw i have 6800XT myself from day1
PR slides are always BS.Look at 3080=2x 2080 BS from NV.AMD is same.You guys dont see this?Jesus...

 

[fleshconsumed]

So, if AMD slides are to be believed, 6700XT is on par or slightly faster than 3070, slightly cheaper than 3070. Same TDP (subject to actual measurements).

So this is essentially typical AMD release as of late, competitive card slightly cheaper than nvidia.

That's in theory, in practice I suspect it's going to be different. 6800XT is supposed to be cheaper than 3080FE yet faster, however due to the lack of availability 6800XT street price is often higher than 3080. It is sort of amusing, 4 years ago I went with AMD because they were roughly on par (or slightly slower) than nVidia, but they were also cheaper and better at mining than nVidia. This time around roles have completely reversed, I went with nVidia because even though they're slightly behind AMD, nVidia is still roughly on par, but has cheaper street market pricing, and better at mining.

Get ready to enter newegg shuffle guys because that's probably the only way you're going to get a card.

 

[Mopetar]

So we went from 2016 230USD midrange rx480 to 2019 400USD midrange 5700XT.And now we have 480USD 2021 6700XT "midrange".
6700XT will be by far worst card in lineup.It will not by faster than 3070.Probably it will be average at 3060TI level and without DLSS and RT performance.

Did you look at the slides or presentation at all? Unless AMD is lying, they squarely beat the 3060 Ti in all but one game shown. I'm sure there are others that it'll lose to a 3060 Ti as well, because some games are just better optimized or run better on a particular architecture than another. Of the 8 games listed the 6700XT beats the 3070 in 5 games. I think it's clear why it's priced where it is.

Price is another matter. I doubt anyone who isn't lucky will be able to get one at MSRP. These are going to be well over $600 online and that's assuming the AIB cards don't start there given what the actual price of a supposed $330 3060 is in reality. Ideally I'd rather the cards cost less, but I'd rather AMD/NV or the AIBs get the extra money over some scalper.

 

[exquisitechar]

View attachment 40501

Quite a few of these are obviously cherry picked, but the performance in Cyberpunk is a good sign. Navi22 is really fast for its size when you clock it high enough.

 

[Head1985]

Did you look at the slides or presentation at all? Unless AMD is lying

reality:

Its always PR best case scenario.You need calculate -10% from that and you get average neutral performance.So maybe 6700xt will be 5% faster than 3060TI.

 

[exquisitechar]

Apparently, the benchmarks were with SAM enabled on the 6700 XT. Scummy of AMD not to point that out on the slides like they did with the other RDNA2 cards.

 

[Mopetar]

You might have a point if you showed that AMD lied about the results of any particular game, but you can probably get a 10% swing in either direction if your set of games includes enough outliers. A few other reviews concluded that the 6800XT was a few percent ahead of the 3080 on average, just because their set of test games leaned that direction.

AMD's results from their own slides show the cards about equal and several games within a margin of error most likely, but having even just one title that's AMD favored by a fair bit makes the average look a lot bigger than it really is.

The 6700XT is going to be much closer to the 3070 than to the 3060 Ti when your post suggested otherwise. The inclusion of the Cyperpunk results should tell you that even in games that run better on Nvidia hardware, AMD has a card that's closer to the 3070 than it is to the 3060 Ti.

 

[Head1985]

Apparently, the benchmarks were with SAM enabled on the 6700 XT. Scummy of AMD not to point that out on the slides like they did with the other RDNA2 cards.

Yeah and they have there games that benefits from SAM more than 10% lol
Ass valhalla +15-20%
borderlands3 +8-10%
COD cold war +25%
Gears5 +8-10%
cyberpunk 8-10%

 

[exquisitechar]

You might have a point if you showed that AMD lied about the results of any particular game, but you can probably get a 10% swing in either direction if your set of games includes enough outliers. A few other reviews concluded that the 6800XT was a few percent ahead of the 3080 on average, just because their set of test games leaned that direction.

AMD's results from their own slides show the cards about equal and several games within a margin of error most likely, but having even just one title that's AMD favored by a fair bit makes the average look a lot bigger than it really is.

The 6700XT is going to be much closer to the 3070 than to the 3060 Ti when your post suggested otherwise. The inclusion of the Cyperpunk results should tell you that even in games that run better on Nvidia hardware, AMD has a card that's closer to the 3070 than it is to the 3060 Ti.

I was just saying that quite a few of the games were ones where AMD cards did well, the performance still looked fine when you looked at games like Cyberpunk and I did think it would be closer to the 3070.

Enabling SAM and not pointing it out is unacceptable, though. The card will certainly be slower than the 3070 since that's the case, at maximum 3060ti+5% performance or so (if even that, not sure how much SAM is worth).

 

[blckgrffn]

Apparently, the benchmarks were with SAM enabled on the 6700 XT. Scummy of AMD not to point that out on the slides like they did with the other RDNA2 cards.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This was barely a reveal. It was like a tease. I am over it. It's not like this is all benchmark final anyway, the YT personalities and the big sites will get a few and we can plot how to get them in 2022.

 

[Mopetar]

I was replying more to a different poster, so apologies if you thought I was accusing you of anything.

From what I recall of prior reviews, I think the testing on SAM was maybe 5% in a title where it worked well. Most tended to have maybe 1% (maybe support has improved) and a small number were performance loss. It does more for 1080p anyways so I'm not sure how applicable it is here.

I'm also fairly sure that Nvidia has ReBAR (AMD just uses SAM for this feature) support as well now (a few of the 3060 reviews mentioned it at any rate) so unless they didn't use it for the Nvidia cards I don't think it's unfair.

The card will likely come out quite close to the 3070 on average. The list of titles on show certainly contains more games that favor AMD than not, but the results aren't out of line with the differences in other performance tiers so we should have a reasonable idea of what to expect.

Maybe someone can count pixels to figure out what the relative advantages are for the games and compare that to the differences seen with the other competing cards, but the eyeball test doesn't suggest anything out of line with my general expectation.

 

[Timorous]

View attachment 40504
reality:

Its always PR best case scenario.You need calculate -10% from that and you get average neutral performance.So maybe 6700xt will be 5% faster than 3060TI.

The TPU test suite has a lot of DX11 games that have poor performance on AMD hardware at 1080p and 1440p due to driver overhead. Obviously this is still valid but it is not that reoevant for future games where the bulk will be DX12 or Vulcan.

ComputerBase have a new test suite and here is the link to the 1440p page. With SAM off the 6800XT is a touch ahead, with SAM on it is 4% ahead.

 

[AtenRa]

Radeon Vega 7 = 331mm2 @ TSMC 7nm , 16GB HBM2 , 300W TDP , MSRP $699

Radeon RX6700XT (NAVI 22) = 335mm2 @ TSMC 7nm , 12GB GDDR6, 230W , MSRP $479

At the same die size and same 7nm process , 35% faster with 70W less TDP and lower MSRP.

For reference ,

RTX3070 (GA104) = 392mm2 @ SS 8nm, 8GB GDDR6, 220W TDP , MSRP $499

edit : performance difference to 35%

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

This RX 6700XT will be somewhere between RTX 3060Ti and RTX 3070 in performance, expecting RTX 3070 level of performance is a bit unrealistic, maybe in a few AMD sponsored titles It will happen.
TBP 230W for the reference. It shows what happens when you set clocks too high.
It looks like N23 won't have comparable clocks and only 135W TBP, when N22 has 230W TBP and 2424Mhz. Difference in specs is not that big.

 

[leoneazzurro]

I am fairly sure 3070 will be a bit faster in average now, but 6700X costs less AND it has 4 Gbytes of VRAM more. Which will matter a lot in the long run, even at 1440p

 

[Panino Manino]

So we went from 2016 230USD midrange rx480 to 2019 400USD midrange 5700XT.And now we have 480USD 2021 6700XT "midrange".

We went from AMD/RTG desperately trying to survive to competing.
The low price of Polaris wasn't good will or "the just price".

 

[insertcarehere]

I'm also fairly sure that Nvidia has ReBAR (AMD just uses SAM for this feature) support as well now (a few of the 3060 reviews mentioned it at any rate) so unless they didn't use it for the Nvidia cards I don't think it's unfair.

ReBAR is only enabled for RTX3060 + RTX 30XX laptops at the moment, so those comparisons in slides aren't valid for when actual consumers can get these cards, as both OEMs should have these features enabled by then.

 

[Mopetar]

Radeon Vega 7 = 331mm2 @ TSMC 7nm , 16GB HBM2 , 300W TDP , MSRP $699

Radeon RX6700XT (NAVI 22) = 335mm2 @ TSMC 7nm , 12GB GDDR6, 230W , MSRP $479

At the same die size and same 7nm process , 26% faster with 70W less TDP and lower MSRP.

For reference ,

RTX3070 (GA104) = 392mm2 @ SS 8nm, 8GB GDDR6, 220W TDP , MSRP $499

Radeon VII was probably the biggest GPU turd of the past decade and anything will compare favorably against it.

Since it's basically the same performance as a 5700 XT you'd be better off comparing it against that. Of course a 33% larger die on the same process for 26% more performance and a 20% higher price doesn't look quite as good.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Radeon VII was probably the biggest GPU turd of the past decade and anything will compare favorably against it.

Since it's basically the same performance as a 5700 XT you'd be better off comparing it against that. Of course a 33% larger die on the same process for 26% more performance and a 20% higher price doesn't look quite as good.

Useless comparison in both cases as there are new functionalities which end up eating trasistor budget.

 

[Mopetar]

Useless comparison in both cases as there are new functionalities which end up eating trasistor budget.

It's as useless (or useful) as any other comparison. I just think that a comparison against Radeon VII is a particularly bad one because it was an awful card, at least from a gaming perspective. That the 5700 XT basically equaled it easily shows as much. That's the card that the 6700 XT ultimately replaces in some respects, the main one being that it lines up against it based on name. As a consumer, I ultimately don't care about transistors anyway because I'm buying performance, not a bigger/smaller number of transistors.

I think the more depressing fact is that the 5700 XT is going for $600 - $800 online right now. That really means that the 6700 XT reference card probably has a market price floor of $700 - $800 dollars.

 

[uzzi38]

ReBAR is only enabled for RTX3060 + RTX 30XX laptops at the moment, so those comparisons in slides aren't valid for when actual consumers can get these cards, as both OEMs should have these features enabled by then.

Also only supports 8 games, not all of them like AMD's implementation does.

 

[leoneazzurro]

It's as useless (or useful) as any other comparison. I just think that a comparison against Radeon VII is a particularly bad one because it was an awful card, at least from a gaming perspective. That the 5700 XT basically equaled it easily shows as much. That's the card that the 6700 XT ultimately replaces in some respects, the main one being that it lines up against it based on name. As a consumer, I ultimately don't care about transistors anyway because I'm buying performance, not a bigger/smaller number of transistors.

I think the more depressing fact is that the 5700 XT is going for $600 - $800 online right now. That really means that the 6700 XT reference card probably has a market price floor of $700 - $800 dollars.

You are also buying 4 gbyte more VRAM, Ray tracing support, Variable rate shading support, Mesh shader support, better video processor, and so on and so on. Things that for yesterday's games mean nothing, and mean a lot for future games.

 

[Mopetar]

Also only supports 8 games, not all of them like AMD's implementation does.

I'm assuming they'll get there eventually with broader title support, and early testing (Guru3D SAM testing in 6900 XT review) showed that the gains were hit and miss and outside of one title, largely insubstantial, but I'm not overly worried about it. On some level it would be like complaining that a review shouldn't include DLSS results for the Nvidia card because AMD doesn't have their own equivalent capabilities yet. I don't think that argument stands up well either.

You are also buying 4 gbyte more VRAM, Ray tracing support, Variable rate shading support, Mesh shader support, better video processor, and so on ans so on. Things that for yesterday's gmaes man nothing, and mean a lot for future games.

That's true whether you compare the 6700 XT to the 5700 XT or the Radeon VII though. Well, against the Radeon VII it's 4 GB less VRAM and it's a different type of memory, but I doubt it makes a practical difference. I'm not sure how much of a difference any features will ultimately make. Maybe they're really big and add a lot, or maybe they're like a lot of features that Vega was supposed to have which didn't really pan out. We can only really quantify their importance properly in hindsight.