Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

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uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
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All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
10,999
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136
Moving discussion into "personal" space, about what you think about person that you are discussing things, is attacking the messenger. And this is what you have said, just a post ago.
Stating facts about your posts in this thread is not attacking the messenger.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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So what would be the point of the Oct 28 event then? Just to announce skus, pricing and availability?

The point of the Oct 28 event is probably what it was always supposed to be: an actual Radeon event. I think this event today was supposed to be about Zen, only. I think Nvidia release and press speculation and of course, the data coming about regarding PS5 and XBox hardware, AMD decided to tease something with hardware that clearly isn't quite ready.

Also, they are certainly facing the same supply issues that everyone else is. I don't think they are muting anything because they are worried about performance or that they won't be able to compete with Nvidia, but that they don't want to go nuts about promising well, physical hardware that they likely have no power to predictably deliver.

It simply makes no rational sense why, at an event like today, if you do show your GPU hardware, you don't show your best. That just isn't what they do.

Meaning, if this is something like a 72CU Big Navi, and they plan/hope to have a full 80CU device, it will probably be limited bin, some quarter or so later after whatever this thing is releases. ...I think that's the only angle for this not being "biggest Navi" They just don't have the supply to make it worth shipping right now, and just can't predict when that will be possible to any economically sound degree.

Still, what they did show looked pretty good and allows much room for optimism--early software, engineering sample Mobo, all sorts of janky engineering stuff that is likely hindering performance to what already looks what, 10-7% of 3080?

That's not bad at all. Consider that the 3090 is just flat out junk considering how preposterously expensive it is, for what you barely gain over 3080. Oh, and both of those cards are kinda broken right now, so AMD is doing all right. They don't need to even think about 3090. It's a bigger piece of garbage than 2080Ti, and Nvidia knows it.

Already getting within spittle distance of 3080 at this point is pretty awesome. Now let's see a price and maybe some actual hint at potential revisions....
 
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linkgoron

Platinum Member
Mar 9, 2005
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Big Navi refers to the die. Not particular SKU. If there are 4 SKUs based on this die it can be any of those SKUs could've been used to demo this GPU.

It could've been RX 6800 - the lowest one, as long as 6900XT - the highest one. Assuming, with straight face that is the highest one, is short sighted to say the very least.
I prefer getting disappointed now, instead of denying what's in-front of me. If I'm wrong, well that's great.

The fact that you need to state "4 SKU from the same die" means that more likely than not that it's not the 3080 Nvidia killer people (including me) wanted. When have we ever had 4 SKUs from one die at launch? We had two (XT and XL) and I'm not sure I would really consider the 5700XT and the 5700XT AE (XT and XTX) as two different SKUs. The AE edition wasn't really reviewed anywhere any barely mentioned after the launch. The XLE and XE (5600) were released 6 months later.

Is it possible that AMD used a massively cut Navi2x to produce 60 FPS @4k? Yes. It's unlikely IMO. If they have a full die that lands right in the middle between the 3080 and 3090 - they would show it IMO.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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Only an Intel fan ? In this day and age ? especially today where Intel is now not the leader in ANYTHING ?

Thats odd.
Whats wrong about that? :D Yes, I am a little Intel sucker, who still believes in them delivering a good products.

I like their platforms, and quality of their MoBos. Im just a weirdo, who believes that most important parts of PC builds are Mobo, PSU and the Display :p. Everything else can be easily swapped.

P.S. Their gaming performance is "not bad", too ;).
Your posts say otherwise.
Its still your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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I guess I don’t understand the point of doing what they did, and showing all their cards. I mean who cares about the Navi event now. It’s just a lineup show and that’s it. Here’s to hoping they have something hidden. Unless the team sandbags the FE and hopes AIB’s overclock it to death

Possibly, I think it's also "worth speculating" that we might see AMD soon start returning to what we always expected them to do: release a powerhungry, somewhat gimped flagship card that, after about a year or two and 6 or so mature drivers (Well, now they do it every month, lol), you get a beast that gains 15-20% performance and beats out the other guys' cards that were released in its class, for a better price.

I mean, maybe RDNA gets AMD back there, but they've got to get back to making consistently good drivers and software (like they actually used to do).
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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I prefer getting disappointed now, instead of denying what's in-front of me. If I'm wrong, well that's great.

The fact that you need to state "4 SKU from the same die" means that more likely than not that it's not the 3080 Nvidia killer people (including me) wanted. When have we ever had 4 SKUs from one die at launch? We had two (XT and XL) and I'm not sure I would really consider the 5700XT and the 5700XT AE (XT and XTX) as two different SKUs. The AE edition wasn't really reviewed anywhere any barely mentioned after the launch. The XLE and XE (5600) were released 6 months later.

Is it possible that AMD used a massively cut Navi2x to produce 60 FPS @4k? Yes. It's unlikely IMO. If they have a full die that lands right in the middle between the 3080 and 3090 - they would show it IMO.
Well then why don't we put the brakes into the doom and gloom, and into the hype train for 20 days, and let AMD to show their products, and for those products to speak for themselves, instead of turning this thread into Circle Jerk of "I told you so! RADEON IS CRAP!"?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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She stated "Big Navi" multiple times. I just don't see why they would show something weaker than the "full" card. At least we can lay any 3090 competitor hype stories to bed, no matter what.

Even if it's "just" the 72CU version, a full version would probably be around equal to the 3080, but not any faster (especially as they used a 5800X for the benchmarks). I don't remember when fan's fantasies of sand-bagging have ever been true. Obviously, I was hoping for something 5% better than the 3080, but IMO it's very unlikely now.

to be fair, they pretty much sandbagged Zen1: promised, announced "30%" IPC uplift became "50%" in reality. Hell, they kinda did with Zen3 today, right? We were looking at, and I think reading 15% up to today, but now it looks like 19%?

But yeah, CPU division is not GPU division at AMD, and they don't sandbag with Radeon.
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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Whats wrong about that? :D Yes, I am a little Intel sucker, who still believes in them delivering a good products.

I like their platforms, and quality of their MoBos. Im just a weirdo, who believes that most important parts of PC builds are Mobo, PSU and the Display :p. Everything else can be easily swapped.

P.S. Their gaming performance is "not bad", too ;).

Its still your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
Check the CPU forum lately, especially today.

But, yes, everybody is entitled to their opinion....
 
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DDH

Member
May 30, 2015
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According to Eurogamer/Digital Foundry the RTX 3080 scores ~81 FPS in Gears 5 at 4K Ultra settings.

according to overclock3d the 3080 gets 75fps in gears5. so really this shows we dont know anything yet

also gears5, BL3, and COD:MW were not shown in the AMD slides of the 5900x vs 10900k. For all we know the 5900x is slower in those titles. more reason to
not get carried away with what we were shown today

And as for whether this is the top card, that depends. If these are the top numbers then they have basically ruined any surprise
for the rdna2 event, it performs like a 3080. On the other hand if this is the 2nd tier card and they have a faster one then that
will come as a surprise
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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It simply makes no rational sense why, at an event like today, if you do show your GPU hardware, you don't show your best. That just isn't what they do.
Do you recall that Matisse tease very early last year where they showcased that the CPU is competitive with Intel's and then showed the CPU package with only one chiplet aside the IOD? That wasn't even Matisse at its full power. And AMD did the same again today with Big Navi.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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Do you recall that Matisse tease very early last year where they showcased that the CPU is competitive with Intel's and then showed the CPU package with only one chiplet aside the IOD? That wasn't even Matisse at its full power. And AMD did the same again today with Big Navi.
Big Navi has second chiplet?!

Hey guys, its confirmed, RDNA2 is chiplet based! Choo Choo! All aboard!
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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Do you recall that Matisse tease very early last year where they showcased that the CPU is competitive with Intel's and then showed the CPU package with only one chiplet aside the IOD? That wasn't even Matisse at its full power. And AMD did the same again today with Big Navi.

what are you talking about? they showed exactly what Matisse would be, by explicitly showing you that missing chiplet and the potential for more. It was wholly intentional. They weren't hiding a thing.

How is that, at all, the same as what you are convinced is true here, for essentially no rational reason?

You're like "well here, it is so obvious that they are showing us a die with 72 active CUs but really it has 80CUs with these cherry-picked FPS charts with very bizarre and unexplained testbeds, because, yeah the same way--they are showing us!" huh?

You made an argument that directly defeats your point, lol!

:D
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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what are you talking about? they showed exactly what Matisse would be, by explicitly showing you that missing chiplet and the potential for more. It was wholly intentional. They weren't hiding a thing.

How is that, at all, the same as what you are convinced is true here, for essentially no rational reason?

You're like "well here, it is so obvious that they are showing us a die with 72 active CUs but really it has 80CUs with these cherry-picked FPS charts with very bizarre and unexplained testbeds, because, yeah the same way--they are showing us!" huh?

You made an argument that directly defeats your point, lol!

:D
In your own words: "It simply makes no rational sense why, at an event like today, if you do show your GPU hardware, you don't show your best. That just isn't what they do."
So that 8c 16t Matisse was the best and they weren't hiding anything, the 12c and 16c SKUs don't exist since they already showed the best there. Alright.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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A lot changed since Raja Koduri left and David Wang came back.

Agreed. For one thing, they don't have the same garbage marketing that overpromises and predictably underdelivers...which is why it is more reasonable to assume that they showed their current best right now.

There is literally no reason for them not to definitively reveal that they will soon be outpacing Nvidia if they could.
 
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moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Agreed. For one thing, they don't have the same garbage marketing that overpromises and predictably underdelivers...which is why it is more reasonable to assume that they showed their current best right now.

There is literally no reason for them not to definitively reveal that they will soon be outpacing Nvidia if they could.
That's what the Radeon event in 20 days is for. Today it was about the Ryzen 5000 series.
 

Vope45

Member
Oct 4, 2020
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Because there are 4 SKUs based on Big Navi die, and there is full RDNA2 related keynote in just 20 days?

You didn't answer my question though, doesnt matter if they have 10 SKUs. AMD always chose the top dog to demonstrate.

Also that bench was done with a Zen 3 and according to AMD Zen 3 is the fastest gaming CPU so the gap might even bigger than 10% to 15% compared to 3080.
 

DDH

Member
May 30, 2015
168
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You didn't answer my question though, doesnt matter if they have 10 SKUs. AMD always chose the top dog to demonstrate.

Also that bench was done with a Zen 3 and according to AMD Zen 3 is the fastest gaming CPU so the gap might even bigger than 10% to 15% compared to 3080.

No they dont. Today they showed the 5900x vs the 3900x and the 10900k. The 5950x is the top chip

In fact I would say AMD are know for this type of sandbagging during events, same as nvidia. remember the 3080 launch? 3080 is the flagship, oh wait here is the 3090. Zen2 launch was the same.

It could have been the top/full chip, but then why would Herkleman want everyone to know that they didnt call it the top die? For this exact reason, so you are thinking hmmm well maybe it wasnt the top die.
And that would be universally stupid to say if it was in fact the top die
 

JasonLD

Senior member
Aug 22, 2017
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If you did, why would you be an Intel supporter ? They have now failed for years. They now are the best in NOTHING, so why would you support them ???

Well, there were AMD supporters during their dark years of Bulldozer era. There is nothing wrong with people getting what they want lol.
Even if you get 5900x or 10900k, it isn't going to drastically change their computing experience regardless of what they choose, especially when your main application is gaming.