Spectre fix nerfing older systems; How to fix the fix. Is a fix even necessary?

potato masher

Member
May 15, 2019
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Just spreading the word to other guys running older windows gaming systems. This Spectre fix can slow down older systems 10% or so while it doesn't seem to effect newer systems nearly as badly.

If you have an older windows gaming machine, and if you are not worried about Spectre Meltdown vulnerabilities, you can disable the fixes. A little video clip below explains better than I can. You may not want to get into this if your machine does work related things or financial related things or web hosting things. For gaming machines different story. I think reported incidents from Spectre Meltdown infiltration is ZERO. So take that for what its worth. IMO this is like the pentium math error bug from 1993. Real world effect on gaming rigs nets out to a big fat nothing burger.

Please read up before you do anything and then figure out how you wish to proceed.


App here:


Reg keys here:

reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management" /v FeatureSettingsOverride /t REG_DWORD /d 3 /f

reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management" /v FeatureSettingsOverrideMask /t REG_DWORD /d 3 /f

This is the little bit I have seen on it, I have not really dug into this very deeply, if you do so please post.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,107
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I assume that all of those fixes, affect boxes like an i3-2120 pretty substantially.

I've been seeing prices on surplus/refurb OEM/business branded boxes dropping, maybe this is the reason. Although prices were up a bit on Newegg, probably because ArrowDirect was getting out of the game.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
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I've been seeing prices on surplus/refurb OEM/business branded boxes dropping, maybe this is the reason. Although prices were up a bit on Newegg, probably because ArrowDirect was getting out of the game.
The prices of rebuilt Chinese X79 gear has dropped significantly too, their demand mostly killed by cheap DDR4 and new/used Ryzens. I would very much pay $80 for a used 1600, new $70 B450 and $60 16GB DDR4 than use dodgy Chinese rebuilt mobos.

Used Intel consumer chips are still bonkers though: They are people out there who will pay $200 for a used 4790K in TYOOL 2019 Q3.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
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The prices of rebuilt Chinese X79 gear has dropped significantly too, their demand mostly killed by cheap DDR4 and new/used Ryzens. I would very much pay $80 for a used 1600, new $70 B450 and $60 16GB DDR4 than use dodgy Chinese rebuilt mobos.

Used Intel consumer chips are still bonkers though: They are people out there who will pay $200 for a used 4790K in TYOOL 2019 Q3.
4790K is expensive because it's the best CPU of the platform, so people with lower CPUs but working MBs will look for it as some upgrade, also their numbers are limited compared to cheaper CPUs I would think.... it's normally what happens with pretty much any platform tbh,
there are plenty of good and cheap used Intel CPUs,

on OP, I really don't think it's a big deal, I'm running all the security patches on my Sandy Bridge and I fail to notice a difference or performance issues that could relate to it,

the video you linked didn't really compare the performance differences, so I don't even know why he is presenting it as a relevant thing, just saying you notice the PC being slow could be related to many things, and from the video I'm going to say he did a fresh install and disabled the fixes without comparing...
 

potato masher

Member
May 15, 2019
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I really don't think it's a big deal, I'm running all the security patches on my Sandy Bridge and I fail to notice a difference or performance issues that could relate to it,

the video you linked didn't really compare the performance differences, so I don't even know why he is presenting it as a relevant thing, just saying you notice the PC being slow could be related to many things, and from the video I'm going to say he did a fresh install and disabled the fixes without comparing...
I don't run benchmarks, I only use my computers for what I need to use them for. I have noticed a slowdown for what I do with my systems. For reference I use wolfdale harperstown nehalem sandybridge stuff for my family, extended family, friends, and work purposes. Old hardware that is affordable and works great for this non demanding use. That is my little data point in this mess. I also use similarly old gpu hardware.

Here is a the benchmark vid I referenced for this thread. He is a reputable dude.


This was only meant as a head up thread to try to help spread some information. I like this forum better than any other tech forum so I'm here posting. I figure it may help somebody out there on the interweeeb. I'm not here to argue about if this is relevant or not for any given user.
 

potato masher

Member
May 15, 2019
89
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I assume that all of those fixes, affect boxes like an i3-2120 pretty substantially.

I've been seeing prices on surplus/refurb OEM/business branded boxes dropping, maybe this is the reason. Although prices were up a bit on Newegg, probably because ArrowDirect was getting out of the game.
Its funny you picked that example. One of my kids ran an i3-2100, after the windows fixes I upgraded her computer to an i7-2600 to get it back to what she expects out of it.

I do some amateur business trading in old hardware. I have noticed the same price drop you speak of, BEFORE the recent cpu releases. Although drops are hard to peg on any one given reason... Personally I think the windows fixes did have a noticeable effect on the normal depreciation curve for sure. Like Obiwan.. "I felt a disturbance in the force as if millions of gamers running old crap threw their hands up in disgust, and ordered newer hardware."
 
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Staples

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2001
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OP, what is an "older" CPU that is affected up to 10%? I've got a Dell Micro i5 7500T system and 8600K desktop. I checked the video you posted but seems the whole video is comparing a Xeon to an i9 9900.
 

potato masher

Member
May 15, 2019
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I don't think you are reading the graphs right.
Here is a timestamped link showing a graph with both the fix enabled and disabled. Hit pause and look at it. There are six data points.

x3450 cpu in gta5 gives 74fps with the fix, 86fps with the fix disabled. That is significant, where the fix does NOT significantly hit newer processors.

This fix is a software release that will slow guys holding on to older hardware, where it doesn't hurt guys with newer hardware. Is it intentionally designed to make people upgrade to newer hardware? Probably not, but does it really matter what the intent was? The outcome is the same no matter the intent.. there are people out there that are going to get nerfed and be separated from their money because of it. Doesn't sit well with me. Bugged me enough to get me to post this thread anyway.

Like I mentioned do your own research and decide your best course of action.
 
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Staples

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Oct 28, 2001
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I don't think you are reading the graphs right.
Here is a timestamped link showing a graph with both the fix enabled and disabled. Hit pause and look at it. There are six data points.

x3450 cpu in gta5 gives 74fps with the fix, 86fps with the fix disabled. That is significant, where the fix does NOT significantly hit newer processors.

This fix is a software release that will slow guys holding on to older hardware, where it doesn't hurt guys with newer hardware. Is it intentionally designed to make people upgrade to newer hardware? Probably not, but does it really matter what the intent was? The outcome is the same no matter the intent.. there are people out there that are going to get nerfed and be separated from their money because of it. Doesn't sit well with me. Bugged me enough to get me to post this thread anyway.

Like I mentioned do your own research and decide your best course of action.
I just got into video editing and looking for ideas to make a video about. If I get some (a lot) of time, maybe this will make good subject matter. I can test both my systems. Of course, any update to Windows can and probably will re enable this. I guess the best thing to do is get a baseline score and you can run that unchanged benchmark in the future to see if it changes after windows updates.
 

potato masher

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May 15, 2019
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I am glad to hear, please let us know what you find.

I get the vid only shows the one example, the x3450. But its likely not an isolated thing to this one processor. The coincidence of the price drops like Larry mentioned, and my personal stuff slowing down at the exact time of the fixes, its too much. When I get some time I'll re-enable the fixes and do some back to back too.
 

MajinCry

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2015
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Disabling the Spectre fix through InSpectre increases draw call performance by 2.5%. But making the registry edits didn't affect it in any way. Are there other registry settings that disable these security vulnerability "fixes"?
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
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did the x3450 even get a microcode updated for spectre?
I know sandy bridge and higher all got it (via bios and windows updated)
but bellow that some Nehalem based CPUs I think got it, but not all.

also I doubt that whatever made the x3450 slower in those games would make the system feel much slower in regular use.
 

Tsavo

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2009
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Used Intel consumer chips are still bonkers though: They are people out there who will pay $200 for a used 4790K in TYOOL 2019 Q3.
I sold a NIB 3570K 3-4 years ago for $300. Some people will do anything to not have to reinstall their OS, apps, and data.

I have a 4790K, but there's no way I'd sell it to anyone. It runs so hot even after delidding that it will swamp out a Noctua 15 running any serious benchmark.
 

potato masher

Member
May 15, 2019
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Exactly no swapping to a new computer. And it makes perfect sense for their situation. They value their time swapping over and relearning a new box more than the $100 or $300 for a used i7. I have bought i7 systems wholesale and sold just the cpus out to these kinds of people. Then I stick in a $3 Pentium in and have perfectly usable system for some kid for school or email. Make a few bucks and give out free computers.

You got to look at it from their perspective, they love their little i3 windows box, years back they spent $400 for it instead of the $800 the top tier i7 version ran... present day with all their app updates adding a bunch of new 'features' its finally starting to bog down where the speed is unacceptable to them. So they can go pick up a $200 used i7 cpu and still be $$ ahead of the game and be perfectly happy.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
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Eh... reinstalling OS is not that big of a deal and a lot of times you can just stick your windows 10 OS drive into a new box and it'll just work. And if you keep all of your data on a separate D drive there is literally zero risk.

But I do understand people like that exist. Way back in the day I sold my early Asus Netbook to a guy for way above what it was worth because the guy wanted exact replacement for what he had. 6 months ago I sold all of my 4770K/4790K for $200+, even Z87/Z97 motherboards fetched more than $100 on ebay, even after all the ebay and shipping fees I only lost like 25% on depreciation after 4-5 years of owning my haswell PCs. People are crazy.
 

Ed1

Senior member
Jan 8, 2001
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I have a 3570k and have run various CPU BM, none are affected, in fact, my CB15 went up a tiny bit ( few points)
You can use Inspectre to turn on/off.
One area I did see different results is in I/O BM the random 4k went down a bit.
All my games run the same as far as I can tell.

That all said, I do have all that disabled, not worried about hacking.
 
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Insert_Nickname

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May 6, 2012
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Eh... reinstalling OS is not that big of a deal and a lot of times you can just stick your windows 10 OS drive into a new box and it'll just work. And if you keep all of your data on a separate D drive there is literally zero risk.
Keeping data separate from the OS is a very, very old trick. I was already doing that back with Win95, with having an OS partition and a data partition. If the OS got(get) hosed, no big deal, just reinstall.

I suppose you already know, but if you want to keep it safe swapping OS drives, just do a sysprep before you switch. Even XP could usually handle that. Newer Windows are much better behaved in that regard, they usually just work.
 

Staples

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2001
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I think the real reason the 4790K demands such a high price is because people who have DDR3 systems would love to upgrade and only have to buy a motherboard and CPU. I was in that boat for a long time. I had a 3570K then a 3770k. And I was looking at the 4790K for a long long time till I finally came across a good deal on an 8600k system with all there components.
 

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