Spark plugs

[Knox7095]

Got some NGK spark plugs that ran well for about 35,000 miles or so. When I installed them I put new boots on (GAs spark plug wire set) with dielectric grease. The plugs came out very dry so I put anti-seize on the new ones and worked it in also dielectric grease on them as well. Here r some pics of old ones. Any advise about this?

 

[Knox7095]

Some pics

 

[RLGL]

As I recall NGK does not require anti-seize on the threads. As far as the coloring of the electrodes, they look good. Why did you pull them?

 

[pcgeek11]

Those are Platinum or Iridium plugs. They can go a lot longer than copper like 80K - 100K miles.

 

[NutBucket]

Looks OK to me. 35k is probably a bit early but it depends on the car. I just noticed my WRX missed a couple of times in the last week at high load/rpm. Then I realized I have nearly 60k on the plugs so I ordered new ones.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I haven't paid attention to my plugs, having left it as an occasional necessity to my mechanic. But I used to change my own, in addition to the wires.

That being said, does anyone have an opinion about those Bosch Platinum plugs with the triple ground electrodes on 'em?

 

[pcgeek11]

I have never had much satisfaction with Bosch Platinum Plugs of any kind.

I try and use NGK or Denso plugs when available.

 

[NutBucket]

OEM (or OE) for me. I learned that lesson years ago unless you've got some mods that require a colder plug or something.

 

[NutBucket]

Just to follow up, this is an iridium plug that needs to be replaced:

 

[RLGL]

The best brand and type of plug to use in any motor is the one specified by the mfgr. I have seen motors have issues when the plugs were replaced by a set that was listed in the "cross reference list"

 

[mindless1]

Might be the angle of the picture but the only thing wrong looks like a gap wider than I'm used to seeing so I'd measure and re-gap if money were tight but by the time I've got my plugs out (if it's a matter of planned replacement rather than cylinder investigation), I've already bought replacements and they're going in anyway.

You don't need anti-seize on any nickel plated plug and if you use it, subtract a few in-lbs from your final torque because it may be torqued too far otherwise. Most manufacturers spec torque for dry nickel plated threads, not with anti-seize.

There is no benefit to triple ground electrodes, is just a marketing gimmick. If spending more money than single-ground platinum, first move up to single (center electrode) iridium and then next move up to double iridium, "double" in this case means a single ground electrode but with iridium on it too.

 

[Knox7095]

Yea I feel stupid but found problem. Dielectric grease is not ment to be put on treads or tip of plugs lmao but yea as suspected mpg when up a lot. Yes gap was to wide in the book I went to the .06 not .05 the .06 was for v6.

Thank you all for the help

 

[pcgeek11]

Yea I feel stupid but found problem. Dielectric grease is not ment to be put on treads or tip of plugs lmao but yea as suspected mpg when up a lot. Yes gap was to wide in the book I went to the .06 not .05 the .06 was for v6.

Thank you all for the help

Dielectric grease is an insulator.

 

[Knox7095]

Dielectric grease is an insulator.

Yep yep yep, learned that one at the cost of HP and MPG.

 

[mindless1]

There is no problem with a small amount of dielectric grease on the wire end of the plug, as long as it's a small enough amount that when you push the boot on you don't create pressure that could eject the plug from the boot contact later. In fact many spark plug wire sets come with a dab of grease already in the boot which inevitably gets on the plug contact. The spring tension of the contact in the wire boot ensures that it still conducts.

Thread on the other hand, if it stays on the thread it should not foul the plug, but as with anti-seize, you're putting something very close to the electrode and during insertion could get some rust or grime on it, which holds water (huge byproduct of combustion) that causes an altered electrical path insufficient for ignition.

It's not common for this to happen as it can happen with anti-seize compound too, but since we're all using nickel plated plugs anyway (maybe copper with black oxide thread in your race car?), the slight chance is eliminated by not putting any goop on the threads.

 

[Knox7095]

Well this guy rubbed that on like a marnited steak and well as for anti-seize it was just a dab. I'm just always seen dad in shop applie to to the plugs with it on the little finger. Of course he used vasaline

 

[pcgeek11]

And you should only apply the grease to the rubber parts and not the electrode.

 

[Knox7095]

And you should only apply the grease to the rubber parts and not the electrode.

Yes sir I learned that

 

[squirrel dog]

enhance the spark kernel .

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I could post this in a separate thread, but it also fits here. My great saga of the '95 Trooper LS continues.

I made up a spread sheet with date, item-description and dollar-amount columns for every shop-order the Trooper has had since I bought it in 2002 -- including the initial used-car purchase price. I was trying to get a handle on TOC or total cost of ownership. The spreadsheet also informs me of the mileage on various mechanical components. I noted that the new spark-plugs were installed 47,000 miles ago, and decided to change them out for a "platinum upgrade" recommended by my new and very helpful mechanic/shop-owner. In our "exit interview" after ~$60 for the plugs and about the same for labor, he showed me the old plugs with the ceramic material speckled with orange-colored oil crud, and suggested that I should replace the valve-cover gaskets with a new kit. But the valve-cover gaskets were replaced 48,000 miles earlier. The old plugs were dry, healthy-looking with a slight rust color on the cathode and anode and no indication of carbon.

I suggested I could just torque the valve-cover bolts carefully in a criss-cross manner to the 8 lb-ft spec, and add some Blue Devil Stop-Leak. Apparently, if oil actually accumulated in the spark-plug wells, it could cause misfires. But so far, it hadn't. I really don't think there was much oil accumulated over that 48,000 miles.

I suspect he was just trying to sell me more service that could be deferred. Any opinions? The 24-year-old Trooper now seems to drive like something other-worldly. The new plugs definitely helped, but so did five tanks of gas (and counting) each treated with a small bottle of Lucas injector cleaner. Damn! What a ride! -- What a ride!

On closer inspection, I note that the valve-cover bolts are tricky to access, and wonder if I can get my torque-wrench in there with the right extensions to tweak those bolts.

Also, here is the appropriate valve-cover gasket kit.

At issue here are the six circular gasket pieces that are supposed to keep oil out of those spark-plug wells. Does anyone know with any confidence if those six rings are made of the same gasket material as the two large gaskets? It would affect my expectations for using the Blue-Devil chemicals.

 

[mindless1]

^ Keep an eye on your oil level and look for leaks. I doubt there is a significant leak making its way to the spark plugs or you'd have more residue on them and eventually (after less than 47K mi but who knows if/when it started) misfires.

I would not do anything more yet including not putting stop leak in. If you can get access to the bolts to tighten them, go ahead and do so but you should be able to get a feel for how tight they are, not needing a torque wrench if it's a problem. They may not need tightened.

About the kit you linked, who is ECCPP? Does anyone recognize them? I would not put generic Chinese rubber gaskets on if that is their origin. Cheap Chinese rubber (in my experience) falls apart if you look at it wrong or the wind changes directions.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

^ Keep an eye on your oil level and look for leaks. I doubt there is a significant leak making its way to the spark plugs or you'd have more residue on them and eventually (after less than 47K mi but who knows if/when it started) misfires.

I would not do anything more yet including not putting stop leak in. If you can get access to the bolts to tighten them, go ahead and do so but you should be able to get a feel for how tight they are, not needing a torque wrench if it's a problem. They may not need tightened.

About the kit you linked, who is ECCPP? Does anyone recognize them? I would not put generic Chinese rubber gaskets on if that is their origin. Cheap Chinese rubber (in my experience) falls apart if you look at it wrong or the wind changes directions.

The gasket kit I linked was purely for illustration, and I subscribe to your caution about brands and origins.

I had the same thoughts when the mechanic brought to my attention a "possible" need to replace the gaskets. We're still getting to know each other -- his predecessor retired in October -- and he knows I'm OCD over my old Trooper.

The Blue Devil treatments (for mainseal, general oil leaks and transmission leaks) really work. In this case, however, I only used half the bottle. If you have stronger views about these products, I'm at least inclined to use them sparingly and with some caution.

Right now, I'm topping up my auto-transmission with Valvoline Stop Leak, which is just Dexron-III mixed with something like brake fluid which rejuvenates or swells the seals. The word about the Valvoline product: you can add as much as you want, as long as you don't overfill -- a general caution for transmission fluid. The tranny was 1 quart low (out of the capacity 9 quarts) when I turned attention to the leak, and I've only added 1.5 qts total so far -- the latter half-quart in portions of 1/8 to 1/4 bottle over the last three months . It seems to be attenuating the small leak I've had. The mechanic will have a chance to locate the source when the car goes up on the rack again. I'm considering four possible sources as low-hanging fruit: the transmission cooling line connections and the two transmission oil pan gaskets. But when you find on the drop pan a red spot the size of a nickel, it's not really anything more than something to watch.

I read someone's sob story in an online review or forum, in which one user of Blue Devil transmission stop leak complained that the tranny was leaking like a sieve after the treatment, and he had to take it in for significant repairs. Other assessments are positive.

Oddly, the staff at the local O'Reilly's Auto Parts did not think the Engine Stop Leak would address any leakage through the valve-cover-gaskets, but Blue Devil suggests that it will. Even so, and as you observe, I couldn't be having any serious problem with it. No misfires; old plugs were clean as a whistle.