SpaceX on 60 Minutes

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
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Turn on CBS or watch online.

Question: are all these new private space initiatives being regulated in regards to secrecy? I mean SpaceX can do what many nations like NK cannot. What is stopping a SpaceX employee from giving away such secrets?
 
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SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
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I would love to find some way to work for them one day. Especially if they turn out to be some sort of James Bond-esque evil syndicate.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
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They are probably subject to the same technology export regulations as Boeing, Lockheed, etc. are subject to. I wouldn't worry.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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They are probably subject to the same technology export regulations as Boeing, Lockheed, etc. are subject to. I wouldn't worry.

This one. Their is government regulations that prohibit what type's of knowledge and goods can be sold overseas. Remember the other launch companies that came before Space X have the same type of knowledge. However a key part is not just the knowledge it is the material and the ability to machine the material properly. The knowledge isn't hard to find. It is trying to fabricate the device that is really difficult.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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why not let NK go to space? why should we have all the fun?

The same tech that lets you launch a satellite/person can be used for ICBMs. Our first astronauts actually rode into space on top of modified Redstone rockets, missiles that began life as ways to deliver nuclear weapons.
 
Mar 16, 2005
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The same tech that lets you launch a satellite/person can be used for ICBMs. Our first astronauts actually rode into space on top of modified Redstone rockets, missiles that began life as ways to deliver nuclear weapons.

party pooper :p
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3u0IIQj6FY

Watched it and looks like the commercialization of space is on it's way. Not sure why the gov't/NASA needs to grant them a license for them to operate.

Some former Astronauts (Armstrong, Cernan, etc) are up in arms that a private company will be capable of doing this task (launching satellites, ISS rescue/loading of supplies) The CEO was taken aback of their response to this, since they are his inspirations for doing this.

My concern is about the technology, doesn't NASA usually own the patents (rocket engines, control, space navigation/guidance, etc. ) being used? I wonder they are doing different or new.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
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Elon Musk actually started to cry when the interviewer asked him how he felt about his "heroes" making such claims against SpaceX.
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
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Elon Musk actually started to cry when the interviewer asked him how he felt about his "heroes" making such claims against SpaceX.
Why are they so against it?
The gov is too busy being fucking useless to invest in our future. Musk and SpaceX are leading the way. He already is making electric engines badass and approachable and now he is singlehandedly saving our dreams of exploring the stars.
He is more a hero than many of those criticizing him.
 

coxmaster

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2007
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Not sure why the gov't/NASA needs to grant them a license for them to operate.
Same reason you need the government/FAA to grant you a license for aircraft to operate.


My concern is about the technology, doesn't NASA usually own the patents (rocket engines, control, space navigation/guidance, etc. ) being used? I wonder they are doing different or new.

Odds are the patents and technology are controlled by other companies. The space shuttle wasn't built by NASA, and most of the Saturn rockets weren't either. They were built by private, government funded, companies
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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Odds are the patents and technology are controlled by other companies. The space shuttle wasn't built by NASA, and most of the Saturn rockets weren't either. They were built by private, government funded, companies

The government typically has some legal right to inventions made while working on a government program. They're footing the bill so they lay claim to the knowledge.

However, patents in the US only last 20 years. We haven't been doing much rocket development in the last 20 years so the vast majority of applicable patents will have expired.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
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Same reason you need the government/FAA to grant you a license for aircraft to operate.

I really don't mind the regulations. But this is "outer space", last time I checked nobody owns or should have control it. So what If I put up my own place to manufacture/assemble and launch rockets (outside USA) do they still have a say on what I can do? Probably a place having the same latitude as the Kennedy Space Center. For a long time NASA/US Gov't had a hold on space flight. Glad it's being privatized.

Odds are the patents and technology are controlled by other companies. The space shuttle wasn't built by NASA, and most of the Saturn rockets weren't either. They were built by private, government funded, companies
I'm aware of the companies outside NASA & their multiple subcontractors, my point is what technology are they using? I haven't seen anything new/innovative on SpaceX, just a different way of doing things. Aren't they granted licenses by the patent holders? How much $$$ does that cost them.

Anyway good luck to them, I heard Richard Branson is on a similar venture, commercial space flight.

http://www.virgingalactic.com/
 
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coxmaster

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2007
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I really don't mind the regulations. But this is "outer space", last time I checked nobody owns or should have control it. So what If I put up my own place to manufacture/assemble and launch rockets (outside USA) do they still have a say on what I can do? Probably a place having the same latitude as the Kennedy Space Center. For a long time NASA/US Gov't had a hold on space flight. Glad it's being privatized.

I'm aware of the companies outside NASA & their multiple subcontractors, my point is what technology are they using? I haven't seen anything new/innovative on SpaceX, just a different way of doing things. Aren't they granted licenses by the patent holders? How much $$$ does that cost them.

I believe the licenses are only required because they're in the US. Outside of the US it would be entirely up to that country's government to regulate or control as they see fit. Even once you are in space though there are operating requirements that the US/Russia generally control.


As for the technology, SpaceX actually designed a lot of stuff from the ground up. The propulsion system in particular was entirely an in house design and production, though obviously I'm sure they license some patents and parts.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
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I was originally also appalled by the idea of private companies taking over American space exploration.
But then I woke up and realized America gave up on space a long time ago - we've been merely doing the bare minimum necessary to keep the original projects and commitments operating efficiently, and doing a little bit of new science work.
And this is not NASA's fault - with what little the government had set aside from them, they had little room to really do much else. Due to funding issues, even getting the James Webb Space Telescope to the point it is now was probably insanely difficult. When working with severe budget limitations, you can't really go crazy with hiring and seeding different avenues of research and development or, in this case, engineering difficulties. More money and more smart people tends to solve the engineering issues, right? ;) But seriously, it does usually work that way - at least in cases where it is honestly achievable. Smaller teams and budget constraints tend to make little issues explode into project-ending issues.

That said, it has generally been the case of dwindling support for NASA from the government. NASA had plenty of hopes and dreams, with great ideas and have invested a fair bit into seeding various R&D projects for different propulsion technologies and other projects. But, when handed very little, there is little you can really do - when most of that must be used to support what you already have.
Both the American population in general, and Government in particular, have lost the curiosity and the desire to reach out further in space. "Too many problems here, why spend on things that don't matter?" is the ignorant but common point.

Handing it over the private industries is going to be the best decision we ever made in regards to space. After a little bit of time, thanks to income from contractual obligations, they should eventually be able to spend a good deal on R&D for new hopes and dreams. More importantly, like all space travel and exploration, they'll eventually stumble on a problem, and the solution ends up having a positive impact on far more industries than those directly reaching for space. Which trickles down to us as both consumers and citizens.
Even more importantly, they are going to be driven by the lust for profit. This is one of those industries where it should most certainly end up rewarding us. Especially if other companies can get themselves off the ground too. If they are competing for tourist dollars, they'll spend more on either existing or new ideas. At this point in the game, any additional spending on space technology will be a win for all. Even if this just ends up, 50 years down the road, with a massive space station outpost/hotel/colony, that will be a major win for the species. The new technologies and improved solutions to current engineering problems will trickle down to so many things it's ridiculous to even imagine the final scope.
And then there's the potential for completely accidental discoveries in the chase for something unrelated. Many advancements in technology and science have come about in that way, and it stands to reason more should follow.

Sure, this decision could backfire to the extreme, but it could also boost humanity's technology, science, and space dreams to levels we can only dream of at this point in time; more importantly, there's a strong chance private industry will accomplish this task for us far, far sooner than state-funded programs ever could.
And NASA won't be irrelevant, not at all. That government money should continue to find itself funding various avenues of R&D, and coupled with larger organizations driven for the space tourist dollar, this could definitely work out quite well. And with NASA focusing on the more sciencey-stuff, like looking deeper into space, sending probes/rovers out further, and even looking deeper into what it's our own neighborhood, a lot of knowledge stands to be gained - stumbling on something random could produce revolutionary results too. We can't ever know until we've tried, and it's very, very important we try. If we don't continue to invest in and advance our scientific and technological prowess, NOW, then our progress curve will forever slow down. And we have no idea how long until our very survival is going to depend on what we know or what we can do - it's guaranteed to happen at some point, and unlike in Hollywood, our species can't rely on being a reactionary species when faced with certain doom - we have to be proactive, considering we've only got this one rock to call home. Sure, the most absolute, certain destruction of Earth won't occur for another 4 billion years or so, but there are too many things that can happen between now and then - many that we couldn't handle even in our dreams at this point.
 

Aluvus

Platinum Member
Apr 27, 2006
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Watched it and looks like the commercialization of space is on it's way. Not sure why the gov't/NASA needs to grant them a license for them to operate.

Under several major treaties (especially the Outer Space Treaty), the launching country bears liability for all space activities, regardless of whether the government was directly involved in the launch. So for example if SpaceX had a launch failure that crashed in a foreign country, the United States government is responsible for ensuring that the harmed parties get paid. Generally there are contractual agreements establishing who ultimately pays for various possible outcomes, but the government is on the hook regardless.

Licensing ensures that the government has some control over the risks (at the end of the day, this is rocket science), that it has formal agreements establishing that SpaceX will pay if something bad happens, and that SpaceX can actually afford to pay.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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I also agree with this. Unfortunately NASA realistically with their huge bureaucracy makes a mess out of procurement. They spend so much money each year maintaining all this bureaucracy. These cost-plus contracts are just insane, this also why military procurement programs run way over budget. They can concentrate on the pure science and let other companies take care of getting them to the destination at a fixed cost. So many times we have seen vehicles come and go that where supposed to replace the space shuttle. Billions would be spent and then the program would be canceled. My original frustration was the change in direction. It seems like each new administration would decided on a different course of action. Realistically I even think the Space Launch System is going to result in Billions of dollars wasted and at the end of it no rocket will actually get off the ground. They would be better off be better off putting out contracts for services.
 

KillerCharlie

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2005
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Boeing and Lockheed have already done all this stuff. Like others have said, NASA doesn't build anything, they pay companies to do it.

Boeing and Lockheed have been launching commercial satellites forever. The special thing here is that SpaceX was not publicly funded. However, Boeing and Lockheeds commercial launches are privately funded.

I interviewed at NASA JSC once. What a mess... 30 minutes into the all day interview I had the revelation that NASA is just another government bureaucracy. I agree with the poster above that NASA should focus on what it and NACA were designed to do - research. Being an engineer in the aerospace industry, I'm biased.

Back to the original question - like others have said, there are a lot of government regulations on what can't be exported. Engineers in the aerospace and defense biz are usually familiar with EAR and ITAR
http://www.ntis.gov/products/export-regs.aspx
http://pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar_official.html
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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snip

Anyway good luck to them, I heard Richard Branson is on a similar venture, commercial space flight.

http://www.virgingalactic.com/

Remember what Branson is doing is sub-orbital flight. Orbital rocket launches which is what Space X is going is much more difficult than going up 70 miles and them coming back down as Virgin will be doing. I am glad that Virgin is doing it but orbital flight is on a whole different level.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,425
2,610
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Elon Musk actually started to cry when the interviewer asked him how he felt about his "heroes" making such claims against SpaceX.

I realistically think that the Apollo astronauts are frustrated with the change in direction. These are the same people that in the early 70's witnessed the Nixon administration basically throw away the lead we had in space and throw away all the sunk costs of the Apollo program when they scrapped the Saturn V production line to build a new vehicle that never lived up to its expectation. These guys where really frustrated to see the next administration come in and change directions on NASA. This constant change in direction by Administrations makes it difficult to build coherent programs. I really hope that at some point some of these astronauts take Musk up on his invitation and they do pay a visit to Hawthorne and see how they are innovating. However think about it when Apollo 17 came back from the moon in December of 1972 they where the last humans since to go beyond LEO.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
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it's not like private contractors haven't been building NASA's rockets since before NASA even existed. even chrysler junk was more reliable than what NK has developed.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
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Was there anything new to that 60 minutes interview? I watched the youtube version posted in March because the video crashed the first time I played it on the 60 min site.

Then I watched the 60 min one for the first 7 minutes again... it seemed like the exact same thing.