Southern Piracy

[mindcycle]

Game publishers and developers try to solve the problem of piracy by implementing complex DRM technologies in order to make it more difficult for the software pirates. This approach could be useful if it represented a solution to a problem but maybe the whole piracy subject has been overlooked. Maybe the problem are not some people trying to get a game for free just because they want to save some money (after all who doesn?t want to save money?), but perhaps is about the conditions given to the people who wish to purchase a game. Software piracy is a very serious problem in South America, maybe some notes about what is happening here could reveal an insight of what piracy is all about.

A long time ago when I was 12 years old I lived in a small city in Colombia. At that time it was completely impossible to find almost any game you wanted and you had two options: Ask someone in the US to bring the game to you or travel to Bogotá (The capital city of Colombia) and try to find it there. The first choice was not always available and the second had a number of inconveniences. The first inconvenience was that traveling to Bogotá alone is not something any 12 year old aged child can do and however if you were older you had to be really dying for a particular game in order to travel just for that. The other inconvenience was that you simply couldn?t find the game there either.

So the internet thing grew up and suddenly every game could be found pirated on the web. I saw almost all of my friends take the opportunity of downloading pirated versions of their favourite games in order to be able to play them. So the problem wasn?t about some people trying to get games for free but mostly about people trying to play a game which wasn?t offered to them in the first place.

Through time, the financial situation got better and distribution got cheaper and this made it easier for South American buyers to get their games. However the availability of games is still a limited and the costs are still higher so piracy still exists in part for these same reasons. In Colombia for instance, the Wii costs US$400 and that's even more than what the XBox Arcade edition is costing (US$350). Also, games such as Super Paper Mario or Super Mario Galaxy which cost US$50 in the US, in Colombia they normally cost about US$100.

There?s a temporal solution for the problem. For me it is called Steam, for others it may have a lot of different names. In general it is called a Digital Distribution Platform. People will still be able to pirate games, but the opportunities given for people wishing to buy a game a increased a lot. They will be able to find a big collection of games with their real prices, and even better they will be able to have access to all the promotions available. Promotions are something really big when dealing with piracy because these are created in order to motivate buyers to purchase. Unfortunately these promotions are often focused on certain regions putting on a side the rest of the world? but well, this doesn?t happen in a digital distribution platform because it is the same for everybody no matter where they are.

Read the rest here: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs...99/Southern_Piracy.php

 

[Barfo]

I don't have a problem with poor people pirating games/music/movies.

Edit: I mean third world country poor, not lazy poor.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Barfo
I don't have a problem with poor people pirating games/music/movies.

Edit: I mean third world country poor, not lazy poor.

what if they are 3rd world country poor AND lazy?

 

[Modelworks]

I agree that game sales and prices are not the same all over the world. Some areas do get favored over others.

So the internet thing grew up and suddenly every game could be found pirated on the web. I saw almost all of my friends take the opportunity of downloading pirated versions of their favourite games in order to be able to play them. So the problem wasn?t about some people trying to get games for free but mostly about people trying to play a game which wasn?t offered to them in the first place.

That doesn't justify piracy. Just because something is not available to you, something that is not necessary to live, does not mean you have a right to take it . That is what is wrong with society now. Many people have a mindset of entitlement. That if something isn't offered on the terms I want , it is okay to take it anyway.

 

[Barfo]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Barfo
I don't have a problem with poor people pirating games/music/movies.

Edit: I mean third world country poor, not lazy poor.

what if they are 3rd world country poor AND lazy?

Then no piracy for you.

Originally posted by: Modelworks
That doesn't justify piracy. Just because something is not available to you, something that is not necessary to live, does not mean you have a right to take it . That is what is wrong with society now. Many people have a mindset of entitlement. That if something isn't offered on the terms I want , it is okay to take it anyway.

People in third world countries are constantly bombarded with publicity from a lifestyle they'll never be able to attain, I don't mind these people pirating stuff, whether it's not necessary to live or not.

 

[Kalmah]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I agree that game sales and prices are not the same all over the world. Some areas do get favored over others.

So the internet thing grew up and suddenly every game could be found pirated on the web. I saw almost all of my friends take the opportunity of downloading pirated versions of their favourite games in order to be able to play them. So the problem wasn?t about some people trying to get games for free but mostly about people trying to play a game which wasn?t offered to them in the first place.

That doesn't justify piracy. Just because something is not available to you, something that is not necessary to live, does not mean you have a right to take it . That is what is wrong with society now. Many people have a mindset of entitlement. That if something isn't offered on the terms I want , it is okay to take it anyway.

How are the developers losing money if they aren't offering it?

What do you mean 'that doesn't justify piracy'? From their perspective, I don't think it really is 'piracy'. Nobody is losing anything.. devs aren't losing money because they aren't offering it anyways.


Maybe there is more to the world than from the perspective you see it? Maybe growing up where nothing is available your entire lifetime is a little different from what you've experienced?

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
That doesn't justify piracy. Just because something is not available to you, something that is not necessary to live, does not mean you have a right to take it . That is what is wrong with society now. Many people have a mindset of entitlement. That if something isn't offered on the terms I want , it is okay to take it anyway.

I'm not sure if this rule still exists, but at one time it was legal in Canada to steal anything that you can't legally buy. The classic example of American satellite TV. We can't legally buy American satellite signals, so that means it's legal to steal those signals without paying for them. Let me give another example. Can you be charged for "stealing" someone's cocaine? You can be charged for posessing it, but stealing it? It's an interesting question.

How do you know that Columbia doesn't have a similar law? For all you know, pirating PC games might be legal in that country because of certain conditions, such as the inability to buy it in the first place.

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: Kalmah

How are the developers losing money if they aren't offering it?

This.

Sure, it's ethically wrong. However, I simply cannot be bothered to care.

If you voluntarily live in a country where your tax money is required to keep your city block from being turned into a crater - e.g. Israel - then the 100% sales tax you pay is entirely fair and reasonable. If you're simply being hit with a ridiculous set of import tariffs or high overhead/low sales environment that screw the customer...then pirate away.

 

[Red Irish]

I don't own any pirated games; however, I feel that part of the problem is that games have become ridiculously overpriced.

In Spain, P2P downloads are only classified as piracy if the content is subsequently used for commercial purposes i.e. when you attempt to sell what you have downloaded. Otherwise I think it's a simple breach of copyright.

DRM only aggravates the situation by alienating paying customers and the explanations afforded by companies when questioned about the need for DRM and its true purpose invariably illustate that they think we are all idiots.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
That is what is wrong with society now. Many people have a mindset of entitlement. That if something isn't offered on the terms I want , it is okay to take it anyway.

Then you have the idiots like me who, when something isn't offered on our terms, refuse to buy the product and yet refrain from pirating. The companies lose in either case: perhaps it's time to put emphasis on their business model rather than the sense of entitlement felt by many users.

 

[zebrax2]

Through time, the financial situation got better and distribution got cheaper and this made it easier for South American buyers to get their games. However the availability of games is still a limited and the costs are still higher so piracy still exists in part for these same reasons. In Colombia for instance, the Wii costs US$400 and that's even more than what the XBox Arcade edition is costing (US$350). Also, games such as Super Paper Mario or Super Mario Galaxy which cost US$50 in the US, in Colombia they normally cost about US$100.

This i think is the largest reason for piracy in third world countries. Wages in this countries are generally low that spending 30-50$ also means spending ~2months worth of pocket money for children.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

There?s a temporal solution for the problem. For me it is called Steam, for others it may have a lot of different names. In general it is called a Digital Distribution Platform.

Clearly this guy hasn't talked to some of ATPC or he would know that Steam is apparently the next coming of the antichrist.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Kalmah


How are the developers losing money if they aren't offering it?

What do you mean 'that doesn't justify piracy'? From their perspective, I don't think it really is 'piracy'. Nobody is losing anything.. devs aren't losing money because they aren't offering it anyways.


Maybe there is more to the world than from the perspective you see it? Maybe growing up where nothing is available your entire lifetime is a little different from what you've experienced?

They are not losing money in that situation, but that does not mean it is okay to take what is not yours.

If they grow up with the mentality that if they can't get something on their terms they have the right to take it, what message does that send to the youth of that country ?

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
[
How do you know that Columbia doesn't have a similar law? For all you know, pirating PC games might be legal in that country because of certain conditions, such as the inability to buy it in the first place.

It isn't about the legal aspects, it is the moral ones.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
[

Sure, it's ethically wrong. However, I simply cannot be bothered to care.

If you voluntarily live in a country where your tax money is required to keep your city block from being turned into a crater - e.g. Israel - then the 100% sales tax you pay is entirely fair and reasonable. If you're simply being hit with a ridiculous set of import tariffs or high overhead/low sales environment that screw the customer...then pirate away.

This is the problem and why piracy is becoming so rampant. It is the change in thinking that if you cannot get something on your terms , take it.

How about the people in areas with high import tariffs work together to change the way the games are being sold in their country ? Instead they pirate the material making things even worse . Why would a publisher even care about their country if the piracy rate is near 100% ?

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Modelworks
That is what is wrong with society now. Many people have a mindset of entitlement. That if something isn't offered on the terms I want , it is okay to take it anyway.

Then you have the idiots like me who, when something isn't offered on our terms, refuse to buy the product and yet refrain from pirating. The companies lose in either case: perhaps it's time to put emphasis on their business model rather than the sense of entitlement felt by many users.

You are one of the few. If more people did what you are doing then things could change in the business model. If people continue to take what is not theirs then expect it to only get worse.

In the story about the boy in Colombia I'm surprised nobody mentioned that while he complained about the price of consoles, he had no problem affording a pc with enough ram, video card, cpu , dvd , internet access, to pirate games.


It is just another case of someone trying to justify a reason to pirate. There is no justification for it, it isn't a right you are born with, games are not something you have to have to live.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
[
How do you know that Columbia doesn't have a similar law? For all you know, pirating PC games might be legal in that country because of certain conditions, such as the inability to buy it in the first place.

It isn't about the legal aspects, it is the moral ones.

Remember Sony cassettes? Sony sold a lot of video recorders and VHS tapes as well. Now they want to ram Securom down everybody's throat. Don't you feel that they and other companies in some way contributed to the current situation and the lack of morality? This seems like double standards to me and the outcry may have more to do with companies' inability to cash in on the rampant piracy you refer to, rather than ethics.

Incidentally, whilst I disagree with your take on DRM in many instances, I would like to commend you for posting in a manner that facilitates intelligent debate.

 

[zebrax2]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

In the story about the boy in Colombia I'm surprised nobody mentioned that while he complained about the price of consoles, he had no problem affording a pc with enough ram, video card, cpu , dvd , internet access, to pirate games.

These days with 500$ you could already have a pretty damn good pc (if you don't factor in software) and considering that games sell there for ~100$ that is more or less five games. Its easy to justify spending 500$ on a pc simply because you can do a multitude of things with it games on the other hand....

 

[Larries]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
[
How do you know that Columbia doesn't have a similar law? For all you know, pirating PC games might be legal in that country because of certain conditions, such as the inability to buy it in the first place.

It isn't about the legal aspects, it is the moral ones.

Moral or ethics is overused term to restraint others (from topics that "interests" the Western such as abortion, homosexual to topics that "interests" smaller group of people, such as sex before marriage or even whether female should cover their faces) . Different people has different moral standards.

Don't impose yours to others. Argue about the legality.

P.S. I buy all my games/software in the "legal" sense.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
[
How do you know that Columbia doesn't have a similar law? For all you know, pirating PC games might be legal in that country because of certain conditions, such as the inability to buy it in the first place.

It isn't about the legal aspects, it is the moral ones.

Remember Sony cassettes? Sony sold a lot of video recorders and VHS tapes as well. Now they want to ram Securom down everybody's throat. Don't you feel that they and other companies in some way contributed to the current situation and the lack of morality? This seems like double standards to me and the outcry may have more to do with companies' inability to cash in on the rampant piracy you refer to, rather than ethics.

I agree , their is a lot of things that publishers and companies like Sony have done to make things worse , but I also feel it isn't totally the publishers fault.

My position is different from a lot of gamers. I work with developers whenever I have to do in game cinematics, or textures or models. I hear a lot of them saying they don't want to support the pc anymore because it is not worth the trouble. I have been trying for the past couple years to argue with them that the pc is worth supporting , but it is getting harder to make my case.

Incidentally, whilst I disagree with your take on DRM in many instances, I would like to commend you for posting in a manner that facilitates intelligent debate.

Thanks.
I try to treat others like I want to be treated, even if it is an online forum.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: zebrax2

Originally posted by: Modelworks

In the story about the boy in Colombia I'm surprised nobody mentioned that while he complained about the price of consoles, he had no problem affording a pc with enough ram, video card, cpu , dvd , internet access, to pirate games.

These days with 500$ you could already have a pretty damn good pc (if you don't factor in software) and considering that games sell there for ~100$ that is more or less five games. Its easy to justify spending 500$ on a pc simply because you can do a multitude of things with it games on the other hand....

I agree

I find it interesting though that every time I read about a reason that someone pirates a game that they make excuses about why they had to do it. Like getting the game was required for them to continue living, they just had to have it or else. The fact is they had a choice, don't download it, don't play it. If you can't pay for it, go outside, ride a bike, etc , it would probably be time better spent anyway.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Larries


Moral or ethics is overused term to restraint others (from topics that "interests" the Western such as abortion, homosexual to topics that "interests" smaller group of people, such as sex before marriage or even whether female should cover their faces) . Different people has different moral standards.

Don't impose yours to others. Argue about the legality.

P.S. I buy all my games/software in the "legal" sense.

I think most people know at an early age what is theirs and what belongs to other people. With piracy people tend to ignore it because it isn't something physical they can touch, so they think no harm done. It does do harm though. It changes how a person thinks about the work of others.

I am an artist. If I create a painting and someone comes in , takes a picture of it without my permission then goes home, enlarges the print they make, and hangs it on their wall, they have just stolen from me. They are now benefiting from my talent, time, materials that I had to put into the painting without me receiving anything. It doesn't matter if they would have bought a legal print or would not have paid to get a copy anyway. What matters is that they are reaping the benefits without permission.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
[
How do you know that Columbia doesn't have a similar law? For all you know, pirating PC games might be legal in that country because of certain conditions, such as the inability to buy it in the first place.

It isn't about the legal aspects, it is the moral ones.

Intellectual property laws are all about legality, not morality. There's nothing immoral about copying a good idea if it's legal.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
[
How do you know that Columbia doesn't have a similar law? For all you know, pirating PC games might be legal in that country because of certain conditions, such as the inability to buy it in the first place.

It isn't about the legal aspects, it is the moral ones.

Intellectual property laws are all about legality, not morality. There's nothing immoral about copying a good idea if it's legal.

Not talking about just an idea. If you worked for several months designing a new product and someone came in when you were gone, took a picture then used your work to make a product, you would not see that as immoral ?

It really is simple. Are you benefiting from someone else work without their permission ?
If you play a pirated game, then you are getting the benefit of that persons work without their permission and without them receiving any compensation for the work.

If you watch a movie that a studio has released with the idea that they want money in order for people to watch that movie. Who are we to say that because we think they are charging too much , or we don't like how they market the movie, that we should get to watch it anyway ? Where do you draw the line where what they want for their work doesn't matter I can just take it ?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
[
How do you know that Columbia doesn't have a similar law? For all you know, pirating PC games might be legal in that country because of certain conditions, such as the inability to buy it in the first place.

It isn't about the legal aspects, it is the moral ones.

Intellectual property laws are all about legality, not morality. There's nothing immoral about copying a good idea if it's legal.

Not talking about just an idea. If you worked for several months designing a new product and someone came in when you were gone, took a picture then used your work to make a product, you would not see that as immoral ?

It really is simple. Are you benefiting from someone else work without their permission ?
If you play a pirated game, then you are getting the benefit of that persons work without their permission and without them receiving any compensation for the work.

If you watch a movie that a studio has released with the idea that they want money in order for people to watch that movie. Who are we to say that because we think they are charging too much , or we don't like how they market the movie, that we should get to watch it anyway ? Where do you draw the line where what they want for their work doesn't matter I can just take it ?

What if you're the film-maker and you want people in South America to see your film, but your distributor won't screen it down there?