South Carolina Public School Hosts Evangelists at Assembly Who Preach to Students

[dank69]

From the Tax Foundation:



They seem to be describing the problem identified by Fern, and are claiming they use a model that corrects for it. The details of the model are probably in one of their research papers. What seems clear is that they haven't just taken the flawed data and ignored its shortcomings.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr139.pdf

What's interesting about the Tax Foundation is, given its conservative leaning, they oppose progressive taxation because, they say, it causes this very problem, that some states pay more than they receive, and some states pay less than they receive. They claim it's "ironic" that the blue states are getting the shaft since dem politicians favor progressive taxation. I think their point is that dem pols who favor progressive taxation are arguing against the interests of their constituents. Of course, the inevtiable correlary is that red states pol argue against the interests of their constituents when they *oppose* progressive taxation. Fascinating.

The true "irony" here is that this "talking point" of many liberals ultimately comes from a conservative source.

- wolf

Heh, fascinating indeed. As for the bolded I like to think that the majority of these constituents realize that it is a fair system that provides the most benefit to society rather than an unfair cash grab as others would like us to believe.

 

[Fern]

so how would we go about finding this information? I'm ok with this info being wrong and I know you specialize in taxes but I think I need more then you posting on the forums. Sorry. I take you as a pretty stand up guy but I want to see it.

Not quite I understand what you're asking, but if you want confirmation the IRS gets no state info when receiving payroll taxes look below, it's a copy of the quarterly payroll form employers send to the IRS. As you can see by looking at it no state info is required (actually, there's no place to add it even if you wanted to).

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/f941--dft.pdf

Fern

 

[Fern]

From the Tax Foundation:

The tax collection data released by the Department
of the Treasury does not allocate the
federal tax burden among the states. Instead, it
simply shows where the taxes are collected. For
example, data on federal excise taxes on alcohol
and tobacco show high tax collections in the
states where the alcohol is distilled and the tobacco
grown. Clearly, the taxpayers in these
relatively few producing states do not bear the
entire burden of the taxes on the products they
manufacture. In order to show more precisely
who ultimately bears the burden of federal levies,
the Tax Foundation has developed a tax
incidence model which apportions the federal
tax burden among the states.

They seem to be describing the problem identified by Fern, and are claiming they use a model that corrects for it. The details of the model are probably in one of their research papers. What seems clear is that they haven't just taken the flawed data and ignored its shortcomings.
-snip-
wolf

Yes, the problem they raised in your post above falls into the general category of allocating tax receipts among states. That particular one isn't one I had thought of.

I tried to contact them by telephone to discuss their methodology, particularly with regards to corp income, personal income, and SS tax collections. I was unable to reach anyone; it may be because it was after 5:00 PM. If I can remember I will try again next week.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Another problem with this report has been on my mind. It's about SS/Medicare receipts and disbursements, this is a sizable chunk of of our federal budget both as receipts and expenditures.

Assuming they get accurate info (e.g., the IRS can manipulate their database to filter forms W-2 to show SS paid by state, and the SS Admin can do likewise with SS checks to show payments to states), I think we may have a substantial distortion.

Upon retiring, Northern blue state types tend to move to one of the Southern red states or out to a Western red state like AZ.

So, while they're these people are working the blue state gets credited with the the federal receipts of SS/Medicare. But upon retiring the red state gets hit with their SS & Medicare expenses. If that is indeed the case, that's terribly distortive and unfair.

I'll try to remember to ask about that too.

Fern

 

[woolfe9999]

Another problem with this report has been on my mind. It's about SS/Medicare receipts and disbursements, this is a sizable chunk of of our federal budget both as receipts and expenditures.

Assuming they get accurate info (e.g., the IRS can manipulate their database to filter forms W-2 to show SS paid by state, and the SS Admin can do likewise with SS checks to show payments to states), I think we may have a substantial distortion.

Upon retiring, Northern blue state types tend to move to one of the Southern red states or out to a Western red state like AZ.

So, while they're these people are working the blue state gets credited with the the federal receipts of SS/Medicare. But upon retiring the red state gets hit with their SS & Medicare expenses. If that is indeed the case, that's terribly distortive and unfair.

I'll try to remember to ask about that too.

Fern

Interesting points. I wonder if the migratory pattern you're suggesting is actually accurate. Certainly Florida is the number one retirement destination, but that is more of a purple state. Anyway, I'm interested in whatever info they supply to you.

 

[Fern]

Interesting points. I wonder if the migratory pattern you're suggesting is actually accurate.
-snip-

Couldn't find any data verifying it. I know I've heard some numbers/stats, but google failed me.

I grew up in FL, it seems the natives are now outnumbered by the retirees. That's also why FL is now purple.

Same thing where I live now in Western NC. We are greatly outnumbered by retirees from the north. It's like that throughout Western NC. They like the mountains. We do have some from FL, but they were originally from the north anyway and moved up here to avoid the heat. They are called "halfbacks" or "J" retirees.

Fern