Sous vide whole chicken temp for cartilage denaturing and eliminating redness?

[fuzzybabybunny]

I just did a sous vide of some chicken thighs at the recommended 66C for a few hours for "tender and very juicy." 74C is supposed to make it "fall off the bone tender" but I assume less juicy, which is why I went for 66C.

I'm sure the results are perfectly safe since pasteurisation at 66C degrees requires only 5 minutes, but there are a couple things that aren't appealing, especially to my Chinese parents whom I'm cooking for.

- The juice doesn't run clear and parts of the meat looks bloody inside. The myoglobin responsible for the red color doesn't denature until between 70-80C.

- The cartilage and tendons were still hard and kind of crunchy. Connective tissue collagen doesn't start to denature until after 70C, but the process takes a long time after that temperature has been reached.

For a whole chicken, what temperature(s) and times would you recommend for a result that is still juicy, eliminates redness, and makes the collagen soft? I would like the texture to be like a really juicy and tender Hainanese chicken. 74C seems too high because I still want it to be juicy, so the correct temp should be somewhere between 66C and 74C.

Anyone done this before and can post recommendations?

 

[Matthiasa]

It sounds like you want to go to ~70° C for however long it takes to break down the connective tissue. Noting that is just from reading on the subject no actual time frames were given. Also, it can be done at a lower temperature but will take quite a bit longer to transform the connective tissues.

If you are not sure you could just try a few times at different temperatures and lengths of time until you get the desired result.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Have a look at SeriousEats - they have good articles on testing the effect of temperature and time on sous vide chicken. It might give you an idea what to shoot for.

I think they used chicken breast only, but at least some of their findings should apply to you.

 

[Kaido]

Wait a minute, is fuzzy in the sous vide club now??

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Dammit. I tried a whole chicken for 3 hours at 72C.

The breast meat was dry - I consider it "dry" when you get the sensation that the meat is sucking moisture from your tongue, instead of contributing moisture. It was soft and tender, but sucking moisture away.

The dark meat was fine.

The tendons and cartilage IMO still needed more softening.

At this point I think separating the breast from the dark meat and cooking separately might be the way to go.

So despite the sous vide, I haven't been able to figure out how restaurants manage to get their non-sous-vide Hainanese chicken so tender. I know they bring the water to a boil and then turn off the heat and let the entire chicken cook in the residual heat, but I've done this and still haven't been able to replicate the results.

There's this one Chinese place in Auckland that has a whole chicken with a cornstarch-based sauce made from the juices. It comes out cut up as a whole chicken, and literally every part is juicy and tender, including the tendons and cartilage which are very soft.

It just blows my mind.

 

[Ferzerp]

You have a weird obsession with trying to cook the non-edible parts of chicken...

 

[Matthiasa]

I would suggest then trying a lower temperature for 4-8 hours (yes it really will take that long)... Also consider what age chicken they are using since that might matter for such an application.

 

[Kaido]

So despite the sous vide, I haven't been able to figure out how restaurants manage to get their non-sous-vide Hainanese chicken so tender. I know they bring the water to a boil and then turn off the heat and let the entire chicken cook in the residual heat, but I've done this and still haven't been able to replicate the results.

There's this one Chinese place in Auckland that has a whole chicken with a cornstarch-based sauce made from the juices. It comes out cut up as a whole chicken, and literally every part is juicy and tender, including the tendons and cartilage which are very soft.

It just blows my mind.

Are you in the Instant Pot club yet? I've done entire turkeys & chickens and they come out like that...every piece is tender to the point of twisting it with a fork makes it fall apart. That uses pressure to cook rather than a vac-sealed water bath.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Are you in the Instant Pot club yet? I've done entire turkeys & chickens and they come out like that...every piece is tender to the point of twisting it with a fork makes it fall apart. That uses pressure to cook rather than a vac-sealed water bath.

No, no Instant Pot. I'm still living out of a backpack. My mom had surgery so I'm back with the parents to help her recover, so I bought an Anova and experimenting with it. A chef friend got me turned onto it half a decade ago and it's good that finally there's something consumers can use.

I think my standards of tender and juicy are a bit different. Meat can be tender, like falling off the bone tender, but still dry because the cells of the muscle underwent too high of a heat for too long.

I'm beginning to think that the temperature in which collagen breaks down is too high for the white muscle cells and they explode under the prolonged heat required to make the collagen break down. In this case, there's really no way to sous vide an entire chicken properly - to get juicy and tender breast meat requires 66C or even less for an hour, but to break down collagen requires hours at around 74C.

 

[Murloc]

I don't really understand how meat can be dry but not chewy.

Anyway breast should be cooked separately imho. Totally different kind of meat. There's nothing wrong with doing this either.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Remember breast meat doesn't have much fat to begin with, so it will dry out quickly. Did you brine the chicken?

if you're cooking a whole chicken, it is challenging to get everything cooked without the breast drying out. Brining helps though.