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Soundcard or onboard sound?

Jacky60

Jacky60

Golden Member
Going to building a new Colossus of a machine in the autumn and will be getting creative Gigaworks or similar $3-500 speakers system. Do I use onboard sound or go with a sound card. I want VERY good audio. CPU will probs be 4770K/4930K or possibly 3930K. I know there must be some sort of CPU overhead with onboard sound but understood this to be minimal these days. I'll be getting high end Mobo so onboard should be pretty decent. Any thoughts and or recommendations re:soundcard

Moved from CPUs to GH
-ViRGE
 
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Onboard sound is usually garbage. Realtek has greatly improved the SNRs on their codecs, but 99% of all of the onboard sound is unshielded. You end up getting noise introduced into the audio. For that reason I would go with a dedicated sound card. Personally I use an Asus Xonar Essence STX. Pricey, but worth it IMO if you have great speakers and/or headphones. You could also go with a mobo like the Asrock Z87 Extreme4 that has shielded onboard audio.
 
I prefer onboard sound. The difference is usually very minimal, even when using a good stereo/surround system in the other end. And you can always use the digital output.

Just like I dont replace my onboard (value?) Intel NIC with a better one. Difference is minimalistic. And sound processing is not something you worry about anymore as CPU load.
 
Auzentech (various models) or Asus Xonar should be where you take a look. If you consider yourself anything of an audiophile, then the card will probably be worth it to you.
 
Even a fairly cheap sound card from Asus or Auzentech (even some from Creative) should be noticeably better than onboard audio. Whether or not you'll be able to hear the difference, I can't say. If you also want a good headphone amplifier built in to the sound card, you'll have to pay extra for that (onboard audio is no good for headphones).

If you want VERY good audio, though, skip the computer speakers and go with a dedicated stereo amp, bookshelf speakers, and a subwoofer. You might not be able to get surround sound at that price, but a very good 2.1 audio system will be much better than a decent-at-best 5.1/6.1/7.1 setup. Plus, you can always expand on the 2.1 setup later.

You can get basic 2.1 amps for $100ish. I got one from Sherwood that is pretty decent. You can often find even better deals on Craigslist.

You can get many good bookshelf speakers for $100-150. Pioneer has some surprisingly good budget bookshelf speakers. The older models can sometimes be found for $50-75 (SP-BS21-LR). Another option is the Dayton BR-1 DIY kit from Parts Express at around $150.

For subwoofers, you can usually find 8-12" subs for $100-150. Parts Express has cheap, but good, subs from Dayton. I think I got a 12" one for $110 there. You can often find budget 8" subs for around the same price.

PM me if you have any other questions in case I don't check back up on this thread.
 
ALC 889, 898, 899, and 1150 are superior to most dedicated sound cards.

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-373-2.htm

http://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/Computers_SNR.pdf

The 1150 solutions in general in the new z87 boards have very very good setup, with many coming with dedicated swappable OP-AMPs (usually coming with a neutral one), and some that come with shielded audio.

The only reason most of the low end dedicated cards are still being sold is because being an audiophile is the same kind of reality distortion field as being an apple fanatic.

EDIT:

If you do end up purchasing a dedicated sound card, make sure it's one with a neutral OP-AMP.
The OP-AMPs with colored sound defeat the whole purpose of getting a dedicated sound card in the first place.
 
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Also worst case scenario is try the onboard first and then if not satisfied then you can get a dedicated one. this way you are not paying for the dedicated one if not needed.
 
Jacky60 said:
Going to building a new Colossus of a machine in the autumn and will be getting creative Gigaworks or similar $3-500 speakers system. Do I use onboard sound or go with a sound card. I want VERY good audio. CPU will probs be 4770K/4930K or possibly 3930K. I know there must be some sort of CPU overhead with onboard sound but understood this to be minimal these days. I'll be getting high end Mobo so onboard should be pretty decent. Any thoughts and or recommendations re:soundcard
Click to expand...
I've opted to go with Logitech G35 headsets on my machines. Now no need for soundcards.
 
guskline said:
I've not found any problems with this headset. Excellent sound.
Click to expand...

If you are the type of person to not like the bad old onboard sound cards that were subpar, then I don't know why you would like the same sort of thing in the USB Headsets.
 
Generally I tell people not to bother, but if you are spending half a grand on speakers, yea I'd get a dedicated soundcard too.

I personally can tell the difference, especially when using analog outputs, but I am not an audiophile and typically use $5 freebie speakers that came with some OEM system from a decade ago (whatever is lying around in the basement), so I stick with integrated.
 
I have pretty overboard sound on my PC. Here's my setup.

http://www.amazon.com/HRT-Music-Stre...streamer+ii%2B

http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E9-Deskto...ywords=fiio+e9

http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Signature-...words=akg+q701

I originally used onboard sound and wasn't pleased so I got an auzentech xfi prelude and audio technica ad700's. It was a step up from onboard for sure, but my current setup absolutely blows the auzentech soundcard out of the water. Anything inside your case is going to have noise added. The hrt music streamer is amazing. For around $700 my setup sounds as good as any $2000 plus setup I have heard.
 
OP, you would need to decide if you want a stereo or a surround setup. There are good pairing of analog soundcards with stereo speakers but if the surround speakers in question have an optical in, wouldn't make much of a difference to get a soundcard if the motherboard has an optical out.

Soundcards do make a difference if you have equally demanding speakers/headphones. The onboard ALC898 in my MSI Z77A-GD65 sounded terrible and doesn't complement my headphones(Audio Technica AD700/M50). ALC898 sounded horrible considering that these are low impedence headphones and it barely drive them to acceptable volume levels. Shamefully, a cheap USB DAC that I bought as a standby sounded way better than the ALC898.

Communism said:
If you don't want to spend 100+ USD on audiophile headphones, get these

http://www.amazon.com/Koss-KSC75-Por.../dp/B0006B486K
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Those are decent for its price but only as portable headphones. I had(given away, Christmas present) the Koss PortaPro which shares the same drivers as the Koss KSC75 and they're fairly good for portable use but nothing to shout about in a desktop use.
 
If you guys think "pump dat volume" + "pump dat bass" means audiophile then I'll make sure to get myself out of that category of yours as quickly as possible.

Audiophile should mean as accurate a reproduction of sound as possible in a given amount of budget.

Digital to Analog Conversion isn't all that complicated a science. There isn't any magic to it. The results are extremely easy to accurately scientifically measure.

If things aren't loud enough for your tastes, just get an OP-AMP, or purchase a solution that comes with one to start with. Simple.
 
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Communism said:
If you guys think "pump dat volume" + "pump dat bass" means audiophile then I'll make sure to get myself out of that category of yours as quickly as possible.

Audiophile should mean as accurate a reproduction of sound as possible in a given amount of budget.

If things aren't loud enough for your tastes, just get an OP-AMP, or purchase a solution that comes with one to start with. Simple.
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I'm aiming for accurate reproduction without any additional effects in the reproduced sound. Audio Technica headphones are known to be neutral because they only serve it to you as is.

Referring to the ALC898, the volume was non-existent. If my max volume via DAC is about a 100%, the ALC898 probably did 40%. With that low of a volume, whatever clarity that my AD700 offered and whatever bass that my M50 had is wasted.

That would come later, the DAC I have served its purpose for now. DACport or Asus Xonar Essence STX. :hmm:
 
Communism said:
ALC 889, 898, 899, and 1150 are superior to most dedicated sound cards.
Click to expand...

I think you can't compare them like that, you would need to compare MB to MB,
because I have 2 MBs with the same realtek chip and they sound pretty different, the second one was so crappy that I had to buy a cheap ($15 on ebay) Xonar DG...

so I guess the motherboard construction can have a considerable effect on the sound quality.
 
SPBHM said:
I think you can't compare them like that, you would need to compare MB to MB,
because I have 2 MBs with the same realtek chip and they sound pretty different, the second one was so crappy that I had to buy a cheap ($15 on ebay) Xonar DG...

so I guess the motherboard construction can have a considerable effect on the sound quality.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does, and I'm amazed motherboard reviewers don't do a quick run through RMAA for each motherboard they test.

It takes almost zero effort and is pretty important to 99% of the people who purchase the motherboard, since those 99% of people will be using the onboard sound.
 
My fairly old 5.1 system (unshielded sattelites) picked up quite a lot of static noise from the integrated VIA VT1708S even with very modest volume levels. So much, in fact, that a week later I dropped in the (first pci-e gen) X-Fi that I still had (and wanted to retire). There's absolutely no static noise coming from it even if I turn up the volume to max. That alone was improvement enough for me.
 
My Asus Motherboard has a Realtek ALC 898 but the software that runs it is Creative X-FI. So I get backwards compatibility with EAX 5.0 via Alchemy, and access to all of the features offered on X-FI cards. It's generally very good. It also has a 1500uF capacitor to keep the audio signal clean and the chip is shielded.

It depends on the board you choose really and what your expectations are. I do not use my PC for studio work, audio mixing etc. I use it mainly for games and some casual music listening on a pair of Sennheiser headphones. Nothing audiophile about it but I am not expecting it to be.
 
Onboard sound used to be pretty crappy, but now its pretty mediocre for most people. Not crap, but not great.

Soundcards like Creative and Asus can be better than onboard, but to really improve from them, you should just route digital out to an external receiver for 5.1+ systems, or external DAC for stereo systems. Many options to get good sound, just don't get carried away with audiophile mumbo-jumbo.
 
gevorg said:
Onboard sound used to be pretty crappy, but now its pretty mediocre for most people. Not crap, but not great.

Soundcards like Creative and Asus can be better than onboard, but to really improve from them, you should just route digital out to an external receiver for 5.1+ systems, or external DAC for stereo systems. Many options to get good sound, just don't get carried away with audiophile mumbo-jumbo.
Click to expand...

All you're doing in those cases is moving the DAC from your sound card/onboard sound to the DAC that is there.

The same scrutiny applies to those DACs.

Until we can hear digitally (plugging into our brain somehow [assuming we don't need a DAC to make analog signals in our brain]), DACs are not going away.
 
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Communism said:
All you're doing in those cases is moving the DAC from your sound card/onboard sound to the DAC that is there.

The same scrutiny applies to those DACs.
Click to expand...

Yep...although some people feel a digital audio connection will be flawless. You still have a DAC that converts the signal to something the speakers can output.
 
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