Sound Card Decision on 5300E's

[reallyscrued]

I am not a musician of any sort or even close to an audiophile, but I do like my sound clear, without distortion, no static, and booming just like everyone else. With a budget of about 150 dollars, I wanted to upgrade my speaker system from the 150 watt Sharp Stereo System I have now. These aren't actually pc speakers, I used an RCA Stereo converter to 1/8 phone jack into my sound card, this is basically a cd\tape deck with an Aux-in I use.

I ordered the Logitech 5300E's on newegg for ~130 after all shipping charges. I was going back and forth between these and the Klipsch's 2.1 for 150, but I really, really want the surround sound experience in games, although I listen to music just about non-stop during the day, which the Klipsch's probably would have done a better job wth. Playing through FEAR and Quake4 should be must more pleasant for me now and a lot less pleasant for my neighbors with the Logitech's also.

Anyway, lately my onboard sound has been giving me trouble. With a stereo setup, I figured onboard was "good enough" but now I hear static through the Mic jack (friends and I often do kareoke the cheap way) and when the speakers are turned up all the way, there is a humming noise whenever the mouse is in motion. To top it off, at high volumes, the right speaker crackles and pops, and I know its not my speakers alone because if I directly connect my headphones to the computer, the crackles are still there. I think my onboard is kicking the bucket.

I would like to purchase a sound card that would make my 5300's shine, but I'm on a very tight budget. Throw audigy and X-fi out the window immediately, I'm talking CHEAP.

Two particular cards caught my eye:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829120103
and
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102177

I'm wondering what the difference would be. I've heard some good things about the VIA Envy24 but the reviews on Newegg about not getting 5.1 to work is scaring me. The SB has total sample rate of 96 Khz while the Chaintech has 192, but since I'm not using a digital connection, this means squat to me right? Finally, I notice the SB has less inputs/outputs on the card itself, If I use a 5.1 setup, will I still be able to use a Mic In? I know on my onboard, I will have to compromise my Line in and Mic In to accomdate the rear speakers and the center/bass.

Or should I wait and spend 50 bucks on a Turtle Beach Catalina/ Audigy 2 Value?

 

[alcoholbob]

The Chaintech is pretty impressive for the price. You could also go with Audigy 2 Value, it's not that much more expensive (about $35 online).

 

[reallyscrued]

Hmm, the Chaintech does not support EAX. I will be gaming a lot more than watching movies, is EAX worth it? Also, the speakers are THX certified, would it be worth it to pay the extra bucks for a THX certified soundcard if I will only be gaming and listening to mp3's?

 

[Eureka]

Just get a used Audigy 2 ZS for 50 on the FS/FT.

70 OEM at Newegg.

Norm

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=1726793&enterthread=y ?

 

[reallyscrued]

I love how you guys are throwing cards at me but not answering any of my questions. Does having a THX certified soundcard have any extra benefit outside the realm of watching movies? How big of a difference does it make? Does the same go for EAX support and gaming?

Also, thanks for the link jello, but both buy.com and ecost seem to be very bad places to do business with according to reseller ratings. Plus, rebates are not sweetening the deal. I have lost track of all the rebates I've sent in without getting my money back or even an explanation as to why I did not recieved a check.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

THX is mainly marketing. If a card supports DD decoding you're ok for movies. Even if you are doing movies THX certification doesn't really matter.

EAX is a gaming effect. Most people like it some don't.

The Chaintech is a good music card, but if you're interested in gaming try to find a used A2 of some kind for cheap.

 

[Eureka]

Yeah, THX is marketing for "movie-qualified" speakers. EAX is quality of the gaming sounds... you really don't need it, but go for it if you can, especially if you mainly do gaming.

Norm

 

[PrayForDeath]

Get a used A2, that's your best bet. It'll last you for a long time.

 

[Zap Brannigan]

Originally posted by: cevilgenius
Yeah, THX is marketing for "movie-qualified" speakers. EAX is quality of the gaming sounds... you really don't need it, but go for it if you can, especially if you mainly do gaming.

Norm

THX is a standard that let's you know that the parts used in the speakers are of very good quality.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Zap Brannigan

Originally posted by: cevilgenius
Yeah, THX is marketing for "movie-qualified" speakers. EAX is quality of the gaming sounds... you really don't need it, but go for it if you can, especially if you mainly do gaming.

Norm

THX is a standard that let's you know that the parts used in the speakers are of very good quality.

Different THX certifications have different standards.

There it THX for more than just speakers too.

My receiver is THX but I know it's nothing special.

My old Logitech z-560s were THX and they were nothing special.

There are a lot of great products out there that don't have THX printed on them, and there are a lot of mediocre products that have THX stamped on them.

 

[Zap Brannigan]

Exactly. High quality low end parts can be stamped with THX. THX does'nt make it an automatic that the speakers or what not are top notch, it just mean the parts used in them are of high quality for what they are.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Zap Brannigan
Exactly. High quality low end parts can be stamped with THX. THX does'nt make it an automatic that the speakers or what not are top notch, it just mean the parts used in them are of high quality for what they are.

High quality low end parts kind of sounds like an oxymoron, but yeah it does give you a reference that the product has passed certain standards.

Very little "top notch" stuff has THX on it at all. Some of the THX Ultra 2 certified stuff is up there, but there's still a lot of stuff more expensive than that stuff

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
Get a used A2, that's your best bet. It'll last you for a long time.

 

[reallyscrued]

Quick question, although reading newegg reviews says its absolutely worth it, I'd rather hear it from Jello or other anand audiophiles. Is the crystallizer on the X-fi worth the extra 60 bucks? (compared to Audigy2 ZS) Does it make mp3's sound that much better? Anything thats not an audio cd or a movie dvd sounds horrible on the Z-5300s. I have many mp3's encoded at 128 kbps and the missing bass and hiss is annoying.

Even worse, much of my music collection consists of mp3's that were taken from tapes or turntables. You can hear every click and pop. Will the crystalizer just make these clicks/pops/hiss stand out more?

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
Get a used A2, that's your best bet. It'll last you for a long time.

How much worse is the Value than the ZS? Figure I can save 20-30 bucks.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I'm no audiophile

Crystallizer looks like a gimmick to artificially boost treble and bass on music which makes it "sound better" to some people. I've seen a review where they measured the frequency response with the crystlizer on and that's what it did along with raising the volume a little bit.

These are both things that make things sound better to most people. You could simulate the effect by boosting bass and treble in winamp or whatever you use and then increasing the volume a little bit.

The Crystallizer on anything over 50% also introduces a lot of distortion to the signal.

So, reviews I have seen have shown the crystalizer to make some things sound better, but it makes some thing sound worse when bumping bass and treble isn't desirable.

I haven't read anything about how it deals with really poor material. I've seen comments in reviews where they have stated that the crystallizer may be a good feature if you are using a low quality source, but I haven't read any real testing on the matter... just speculation. You might want to check out some personal experiences of people who have used it. (Try to focus on it getting rid of a hiss or popping like you have in some of your media, not the artificial frequency changes that it also does).

Creative's claims that it can take a low quality mp3 and make it sound better than the original CD or DVD doesn't make any sense. Hours of work by experts goes into getting everything right when producing a CD or DVD sound source. The data on the CD or DVD is the sound they intended you to hear.

The Crystallizer seems like it might bring some life back into a poorly made mp3, but it's not going to be able to get it back to how it was supposed to sound let alone better than the original.

Without the Crystallizer feature, the X-Fi seems like a great music card. Leave it off and it has very nice and neutral response from what I've read. Finally a card that is great at gaming and has reduced music quality issues to a point where the output is very very good.

I haven't heard it in person, but if I was doing my own soundcard purchasing over again now that X-Fi is out, I think I'd go for it. (the cheapest one of course)
The surround headphone feature seems like the best reason to get it over an A2.
Game performance numbers have been virtually identical. Some people say going from A2 to X-Fi was night and day for gaming sound quality... others say the difference was minor. I'm tend to think that the guys who admit the difference was small are more accurate in their statements but that's just speculation on my part since I haven't experienced it personally.
So, I'm pretty negative on the X-Fi as a whole, but yeah if I was buying a $100-ish card and gaming was important then I'd be getting one anyway.

If you're on a budget and you're going to be using z-5300s, A2 seems like a better match.

A2 value and ZS are essentially the same thing. No firewire on the value, and I think it's missing the surrond stereo feature and only has CMSS for surround from a stereo source, but I actually think you can get around that.

 

[orangat]

If you play games I highly recommend you get a creative card. Because eax3/4 is only supported in the creative audigy/x-fi lines. All other cards only support eax1/2. The difference between eax2 and eax3 is alot imo.

The A2 value looks like a good buy on paper since its practically everything the ZS is. Only problem though it looks like drivers are problematic from some of the feedback which is surprising since its so close to the ZS.

The x-fi imo is terribly overrated. Creative likes to tout high fidelity specs of its dacs but the opmap it uses are quite mediocre across the board. Every xfi card except for the most expensive elitepro uses the _same_ 4558c/4556 opmaps used in the A2.
So ignore the hype about x-fi's sounding better, the components aren't that better. I doubt anyone can tell the difference with A2/xfi on 5300s or any multimedia speaker set for that matter except maybe for the sirocco pro.

The conclusion of the xfi on AT:-
http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i=2518&p=11

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I'm no audiophile

Crystallizer looks like a gimmick to artificially boost treble and bass on music which makes it "sound better" to some people. I've seen a review where they measured the frequency response with the crystlizer on and that's what it did along with raising the volume a little bit.

These are both things that make things sound better to most people. You could simulate the effect by boosting bass and treble in winamp or whatever you use and then increasing the volume a little bit.

The Crystallizer on anything over 50% also introduces a lot of distortion to the signal.

So, reviews I have seen have shown the crystalizer to make some things sound better, but it makes some thing sound worse when bumping bass and treble isn't desirable.

I haven't read anything about how it deals with really poor material. I've seen comments in reviews where they have stated that the crystallizer may be a good feature if you are using a low quality source, but I haven't read any real testing on the matter... just speculation. You might want to check out some personal experiences of people who have used it. (Try to focus on it getting rid of a hiss or popping like you have in some of your media, not the artificial frequency changes that it also does).

Creative's claims that it can take a low quality mp3 and make it sound better than the original CD or DVD doesn't make any sense. Hours of work by experts goes into getting everything right when producing a CD or DVD sound source. The data on the CD or DVD is the sound they intended you to hear.

The Crystallizer seems like it might bring some life back into a poorly made mp3, but it's not going to be able to get it back to how it was supposed to sound let alone better than the original.

Without the Crystallizer feature, the X-Fi seems like a great music card. Leave it off and it has very nice and neutral response from what I've read. Finally a card that is great at gaming and has reduced music quality issues to a point where the output is very very good.

I haven't heard it in person, but if I was doing my own soundcard purchasing over again now that X-Fi is out, I think I'd go for it. (the cheapest one of course)
The surround headphone feature seems like the best reason to get it over an A2.
Game performance numbers have been virtually identical. Some people say going from A2 to X-Fi was night and day for gaming sound quality... others say the difference was minor. I'm tend to think that the guys who admit the difference was small are more accurate in their statements but that's just speculation on my part since I haven't experienced it personally.
So, I'm pretty negative on the X-Fi as a whole, but yeah if I was buying a $100-ish card and gaming was important then I'd be getting one anyway.

If you're on a budget and you're going to be using z-5300s, A2 seems like a better match.

A2 value and ZS are essentially the same thing. No firewire on the value, and I think it's missing the surrond stereo feature and only has CMSS for surround from a stereo source, but I actually think you can get around that.

Dude...very excellent post.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I'm no audiophile

Crystallizer looks like a gimmick to artificially boost treble and bass on music which makes it "sound better" to some people. I've seen a review where they measured the frequency response with the crystlizer on and that's what it did along with raising the volume a little bit.

These are both things that make things sound better to most people. You could simulate the effect by boosting bass and treble in winamp or whatever you use and then increasing the volume a little bit.

The Crystallizer on anything over 50% also introduces a lot of distortion to the signal.

So, reviews I have seen have shown the crystalizer to make some things sound better, but it makes some thing sound worse when bumping bass and treble isn't desirable.

I haven't read anything about how it deals with really poor material. I've seen comments in reviews where they have stated that the crystallizer may be a good feature if you are using a low quality source, but I haven't read any real testing on the matter... just speculation. You might want to check out some personal experiences of people who have used it. (Try to focus on it getting rid of a hiss or popping like you have in some of your media, not the artificial frequency changes that it also does).

Creative's claims that it can take a low quality mp3 and make it sound better than the original CD or DVD doesn't make any sense. Hours of work by experts goes into getting everything right when producing a CD or DVD sound source. The data on the CD or DVD is the sound they intended you to hear.

The Crystallizer seems like it might bring some life back into a poorly made mp3, but it's not going to be able to get it back to how it was supposed to sound let alone better than the original.

Without the Crystallizer feature, the X-Fi seems like a great music card. Leave it off and it has very nice and neutral response from what I've read. Finally a card that is great at gaming and has reduced music quality issues to a point where the output is very very good.

I haven't heard it in person, but if I was doing my own soundcard purchasing over again now that X-Fi is out, I think I'd go for it. (the cheapest one of course)
The surround headphone feature seems like the best reason to get it over an A2.
Game performance numbers have been virtually identical. Some people say going from A2 to X-Fi was night and day for gaming sound quality... others say the difference was minor. I'm tend to think that the guys who admit the difference was small are more accurate in their statements but that's just speculation on my part since I haven't experienced it personally.
So, I'm pretty negative on the X-Fi as a whole, but yeah if I was buying a $100-ish card and gaming was important then I'd be getting one anyway.

If you're on a budget and you're going to be using z-5300s, A2 seems like a better match.

A2 value and ZS are essentially the same thing. No firewire on the value, and I think it's missing the surrond stereo feature and only has CMSS for surround from a stereo source, but I actually think you can get around that.

Dude...very excellent post.

:heart: