Sony's 4K movie download service for PS4 will need 100+ GB files.

[Eug]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/28/4...ll-work-with-ps4-require-100gb-plus-downloads

And while Sony appears to be moving towards a summer launch for the service, It appears the company still has some work to do in making the 4K download service a realistic option for regular consumers. Molyneux said that typical 4K movies would be "100 gigabytes and plus" depending on length, and added that file size and average broadband speeds are "challenges that we have to work through... we've got some very good ideas that will make that a comfortable consumer experience." That sounds like overnight downloading of huge files, which Sony already does for PS3 games — and Sony CEO Kaz Hirai called adjusting to long download times "a journey" for consumers when we asked him about it at CES. Molyneux did say that work on improved compression for smaller files was "in active progress," but it seems the first generation of 4K products will involve huge files.

Uh, no thanks. Maybe I'll change my mind by 2020, but in the meantime I'll just watch Netflix and iTunes content instead.

 

[purbeast0]

i give them props for at least supporting 4k. they were one of the first companies to put out a bluray player with the ps3, and now it is pretty much as mainstream as dvd was when the ps3 came out.

4k is kinda like the chicken/egg problem. although this obviously won't solve the display issue, at least it will get a bunch of players out in the market which may start the trend of 4k content/displays to get started.

me personally, i don't want 100gb movie files on a hdd. i want a damn physical disc that i can take places and store away, just like i do with my games.

 

[Eug]

Blu-ray already had players out before the PS3 launched at retail in North America. More importantly though, most TVs could already support the benefits of Blu-ray, partially because HD had already been long since available via HD cable, and even HD broadcast.

So basically, Blu-ray filled the niche of the optical disc format that could max out the capabilities of 50" TVs already in people's homes.

In contrast, there is essentially no such installed base for 4K, but even more importantly, almost nobody from the mainstream is asking for 4K either... just as people didn't ask for home 3D.

Also, Blu-ray now is nowhere near as ubiquitous as DVD was when Blu-ray came out. Furthermore, I've already started noticing that many shops are scaling back on Blu-ray (and DVD) disc displays. In the past, just before Blu-ray arrived, I would be able to go a large store like HMV and find just about anything I wanted, except for imports and rare prints. Nowadays, HMV in Europe is bankrupt, and in Canada I have a hard time finding even relatively recent common titles. I just bought a Blu-ray disc off eBay because none of the stores carried it locally, and it was a frickin' Disney family movie. Oh and the disc rental shops in my neighbourhood closed.

If anything the direction of movie watching is towards mobile, on smaller screens, not 4K on 75" screens. And I mention specifically 75" screens because 4K is pretty much irrelevant for 50" TV screens.

 

[Aikouka]

Ultra-HD is only four times bigger than Full-HD, which means you can multiply the size of the video on a Blu-Ray disc by four and get a rough estimate of what Blu-Ray quality video would require for Ultra-HD. The problem with that? Who streams or even downloads full Blu-Ray quality video?

Honestly, I don't think this will be a problem.

 

[FreshJR]

The small mobile screens are also becoming 4k if not higher. Just saying

 

[purbeast0]

Blu-ray already had players out before the PS3 launched at retail in North America. More importantly though, most TVs could already support the benefits of Blu-ray, partially because HD had already been long since available via HD cable, and even HD broadcast.

So basically, Blu-ray filled the niche of the optical disc format that could max out the capabilities of 50" TVs already in people's homes.

In contrast, there is essentially no such installed base for 4K, but even more importantly, almost nobody from the mainstream is asking for 4K either... just as people didn't ask for home 3D.

Also, Blu-ray now is nowhere near as ubiquitous as DVD was when Blu-ray came out. Furthermore, I've already started noticing that many shops are scaling back on Blu-ray (and DVD) disc displays. In the past, just before Blu-ray arrived, I would be able to go a large store like HMV and find just about anything I wanted, except for imports and rare prints. Nowadays, HMV in Europe is bankrupt, and in Canada I have a hard time finding even relatively recent common titles. I just bought a Blu-ray disc off eBay because none of the stores carried it locally, and it was a frickin' Disney family movie. Oh and the disc rental shops in my neighbourhood closed.

If anything the direction of movie watching is towards mobile, on smaller screens, not 4K on 75" screens. And I mention specifically 75" screens because 4K is pretty much irrelevant for 50" TV screens.

ps3 helped put a TON of blu-ray players in people's homes though. that is kind of what i was getting at. and it was also one of the best blu-ray players at the time it came out, and it rivaled blu-ray player prices AND you could game on it.

i disagree about blurays not being close to where dvds were 8 years ago though. but it's more anecdotal than anything because i'm just talking about people i know. pretty much everyone i know has a bluray player. i don't shop for movies in stores so i'm not sure how much is stocked in stores or anything.

i personally don't care about 4k right now, but i will down the road and it will be nice knowing that i can at least try it out on my ps4 once i have one. i still use my ps3 as my blu-ray player and never needed to purchase another one. i don't think i would have had a blu-ray player as early as i did if it wasn't for the ps3.

but i do agree that the want for 4k isn't nearly as strong as blu-ray was, for the same reason you mention that current tvs at the time could take advantage of blu-ray where right now, there aren't really any.

don't agree about smaller screens though. could be because i am now used to a 120" screen though. but i did just watch 5 episodes of boardwalk empire on my iphone on an airplane over the past week, and i had no problem with that.

 

[Eug]

The small mobile screens are also becoming 4k if not higher. Just saying

There is no real point of 4K in a mobile screen, unless you're talking about a giant tablet, since 4K is 3840 × 2160.

The retina iPad is 2048x1536, which is 2K width.

I'm sure someone will release a 4K 10" tablet though eventually, but that still doesn't solve the problem of trying to stream that 4K to the tablet, in the foreseeable future that is.

In the meantime we're starting to see a shift to smaller sized tablets. The iPad mini seems to be eating into iPad sales significantly.

i disagree about blurays not being close to where dvds were 8 years ago though. but it's more anecdotal than anything because i'm just talking about people i know. pretty much everyone i know has a bluray player. i don't shop for movies in stores so i'm not sure how much is stocked in stores or anything.

Blu-ray players are common because they are less than $100 now for a good quality one. You may as well kill two birds with one stone, getting a cheap player that plays both DVD and Blu-ray. However, your last statement just confirms what I'm talking about. There is a shift away from optical disc sales.

don't agree about smaller screens though. could be because i am now used to a 120" screen though. but i did just watch 5 episodes of boardwalk empire on my iphone on an airplane over the past week, and i had no problem with that.

I have a projector too with a 90" image size, and quite honestly I watch more video on my 7" Nexus 7 than I do on that. I watch the most on my 42" TV though.

Other than one single young co-worker, I don't know anyone else personally with a projector in active use.

 

[purbeast0]

i never said i don't buy optical discs, i said i don't buy them in b&m stores. i buy them from amazon. if i have the option to have a disc or digital copy, i'm taking the disc version 100% of the time.

i use my projector a ton. it is where i do all of my gaming, movie watching, and sports watching. i don't have a dedicated cable box down there yet but when i do i'm sure i will watch more tv down there as well. my wife loves it as well for movies.

i don't know anyone else personally that actually owns a projector.

 

[gevorg]

ISPs would love this, especially AT&T

 

[Dari]

Does anyone really think that this guy knows what he's talking about? I think he read online somewhere that 4K is 4X a Blu-ray and did the numbers and he knows that SONY will add 4K movies to their SEN service. He then put the two together. In reality, I really believe that SONY will use the new compression algorithm for 4K movies, making them only 2X the size of Blu-ray. I also think they will have a streaming service because no one will want to wait hours to watch a damn movie...

 

[sdifox]

the movie itself is same file size as brd rips. it's the DRM that takes up the rest :biggrin:

 

[vshah]

~95 minutes? i could wait that long, i guess.

 

[lamedude]

I would be surprised with PS4 could decode H.265@4K.
If the PS4 supports USB3 and allows them to be saved on an external drive you could just queue up a bunch of movies and background download them over a few days.

 

[Eug]

Does anyone really think that this guy knows what he's talking about?

Yes, considering he is Sony's COO, and he specifically says that they're working on increasing compression to reduce the file sizes but the the initial batch of movies will be over 100 GB.

However note that even if they managed to get H.265 working seamlessly and it lived up to the compression efficiency hype, the files would still be upwards of 50 - 60 GB each, unless they decided to reduce quality significantly.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Yeah Sony, people stopped buying HDTVs because the 1080p wasn't high enough than the fact that everyone that wanted one already had one.

 

[poohbear]

So @ 100gb a movie, one 2hr 4k movie is expected to fit on 4 blu-ray discs??? I just dont see it taking off until they can create a new disc format that can fit 100gb of data.

 

[Anubis]

So @ 100gb a movie, one 2hr 4k movie is expected to fit on 4 blu-ray discs??? I just dont see it taking off until they can create a new disc format that can fit 100gb of data.

BDXL can support 100 gigs per disk they are 3/4 layer and are 100-130 GB, and the PS4 should support them

 

[Dari]

Yes, considering he is Sony's COO, and he specifically says that they're working on increasing compression to reduce the file sizes but the the initial batch of movies will be over 100 GB.

However note that even if they managed to get H.265 working seamlessly and it lived up to the compression efficiency hype, the files would still be upwards of 50 - 60 GB each, unless they decided to reduce quality significantly.

There is a serious misunderstanding somewhere then. I do not believe that SONY will ever offer a 100GB movie file for download. That will never happen

BDXL can support 100 gigs per disk they are 3/4 layer and are 100-130 GB, and the PS4 should support them

This is what I'm thinking they will offer. Either a streaming service or BDXL.

 

[mavere]

I would be surprised with PS4 could decode H.265@4K

H.265 is supposed to have been made with fast decoding in mind. Docomo has already demonstrated 4K 60fps on 3-4 software threads with Ivy Bridge.

Even beyond all that, there's no reason to do it in software, as 4K HEVC decoding on fixed silicon should be trivial. The only question is how much wafer space that would eat up and whether the corporate bean counters would allow it.

 

[Railgun]

BDXL can support 100 gigs per disk they are 3/4 layer and are 100-130 GB, and the PS4 should support them

BDXL had its chance. It's already obsolete.

 

[Dari]

H.265 is supposed to have been made with fast decoding in mind. Docomo has already demonstrated 4K 60fps on 3-4 software threads with Ivy Bridge.

Even beyond all that, there's no reason to do it in software, as 4K HEVC decoding on fixed silicon should be trivial. The only question is how much wafer space that would eat up and whether the corporate bean counters would allow it.

Some of the chips announced at CES and MWC from Qualcomm and Broadcom claim to be able to decode 4K...

 

[PC Perv]

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 4k the res of original material?


Posted from Anandtech.com App for Android

 

[Soccerman06]

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 4k the res of original material?


Posted from Anandtech.com App for Android

Yes, no, kinda.

35mm is kinda, most new action/sci-fi movies are yes, most others are no.

 

[Eug]

There is a serious misunderstanding somewhere then. I do not believe that SONY will ever offer a 100GB movie file for download. That will never happen

Well, that's what he said would happen. They could change their minds though.

This is what I'm thinking they will offer. Either a streaming service or BDXL.

Well, there is nothing yet on the table re: optical disc distribution.

Molyneux was bullish about the future of online delivery for 4K — he said that he's personally heading up the download service project, and added that while he was "not discounting" physical 4K distribution on Blu-ray or other media, "the whole world is moving more and more to download." Asked about the potential for 4K on Blu-ray discs, he noted that "there has been some progress" on a new industry standard, "but there's no conclusion, and I have to let that forum do their work."

 

[JAG87]

He obviously has no idea what he's talking about. 4K video in HEVC will have practically the same space demand as 1080p in AVC, and will easily fit in a standard 50GB bluray. No 100GB files necessary.

Read more here:
http://ateme.com/IMG/pdf/4k_delivery_to_the_home_-_pierre_larbier_-_ateme.pdf