There are other gamepads with asymmetrical analog sticks (that new Amazon one comes to mind) so I doubt having asymmetrical sticks is patented.
zerocool84
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 36,041
- 472
- 126
This
They stated last year while going through controller designs and they chose to stick to their familiar design. Obviously sales have shown it hasn't hurt them but I'm sure if you wanted an Xbox style controller, just pick up a third party controller.
There aren't any 3rd party controllers available because of all the proprietary tech in the DS4. Might not ever be.
I just wanted to add this is the most entertaining thread I've read today so thanks OP and everyone who has contributed.
The odds of them having never even considered this is infinitesimally small. I'm sure they did consider it and decided not to do it. I support that decision.
purbeast0
No Lifer
- Sep 13, 2001
- 52,992
- 5,888
- 126
anyone who is into fighters doesn't use pads for the most part anyways, they use joysticks, because a joystick owns the shit out of any controller.
and the reason most people play sf games on ps3 (or did in the past up until last year) is because that was the evo standard, because at evo the games were played on ps3. and they were on ps3 because sony donated consoles for the tourney. but last year, they changed that and used 360 because ms sponsored it.
why do you support them not having an alternate controller? functionality would be the same, not like were asking for a turbo button
Hmm. I suppose I should clarify. I don't really care if they were to have both controllers. But I would always choose the 'classic'. Having both would probably take away from their bottom line though because the non-aligned thumbsticks suck so hard (imo).
TeknoBug
Platinum Member
- Oct 2, 2013
- 2,084
- 31
- 91
The DS4 is one of the most comfortable controllers I've used, I have no problems with it, however in FPS games the XB1 controller fares better due to the left stick being in the right place for the thumb but other than that the XB1's controller feels large.
Can we get a kickstarter going to put futurefields in charge of either Sony or MS? I mean, it would certainly stop him from posting this nonsensical dribble after all his ideas run a company into the ground.
From my understanding, he didn't ask for the controller to replaced, he asked for an ALTERNATE OPTION. Are you guys really against having options?
zerocool84
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 36,041
- 472
- 126
No, we're against his statement of a opinion as fact, then his backpedaling and defensive replies, rather than pointing out any kind of legitimate defense to his point.
master_shake_
Diamond Member
- May 22, 2012
- 6,425
- 291
- 121
i agree the way you have to hold a ps3/4 controller is not natural.
it seems forced.
but i think ms has a patent or something on asymmetrical control sticks.
it seems forced.
but i think ms has a patent or something on asymmetrical control sticks.
zerocool84
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 36,041
- 472
- 126
Blanky
Platinum Member
- Oct 18, 2014
- 2,457
- 12
- 46
On the contrary, since most time is spent with a thumb on both sticks, Sony's approach is symmetrically superior.
This is really arbitrary anyway. Outside of a tiny subset of fanboys, people don't really care. MS makes asymmetrical, sony makes symmetrical. Truly anybody can use either one and get used to it in short order.
CZroe
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2001
- 24,195
- 857
- 126
How is "most time" spent on both sticks?! Only in FPS, and that control scheme was not in use back when Sony's dual analog arrangement came about. Also, Nintendo had offset analog sticks on the GameCube, so this isn't just a Microsoft thing. Also, despite the fans, it doesn't change how awkward playing an FPS is on a controller when compared to the ideal/original keyboard and mouse, so it should hardly be considered the standard controller usage scenario. Most games just use it for tweaking camera position and your thumbs do NOT spend most of their time on both analogs.
"Sony's approach" was not deliberate and reasoned. It was an afterthought. Basically, they were newbies to the console market when Nintendo ditched them and spurred them to release the Playstation as a stand-alone console. Sony pretty much just took the SNES controller, doubled the shoulder buttons, added handles, and circumvented Nintendo's cross-shaped D-pad trademark by covering segments (most manufacturers just used a floating disc with a cross shape on it). When Nintendo added an analog stick, Sony added two. When Nintendo added a force feedback motor, Sony added two. They just doubled everything Nintendo did and shoved it where it would fit on their existing design. Heck, even though it launched two days earlier, "SIXAXIS" was a response to accelerometer motion controls on the Wii. Once again, Sony just shoved everything into an existing PlayStation controller design. "We have more axes!"
They never actually went back to the drawing board when copying things to actually re-engineer until Playstation Move, which was a backwards version of Wii's pointer-style motion tracking controls (Wii has IR cameras in each controller; Move uses PS Eye to track colored orbs on the controller).Sony's dual analog has always been flawed because it was just shoved in where it would fit on a controller that was built to prioritize legacy retro controls (D-pad). Also, the circular range makes maximum Up/Down/Left/Right inputs difficult to get perfect. Many games suffer. It's hard to nose down and stay perfectly straight in a flying/racing game, it's hard to alternate Left/Right without accidentally moving Up/Down slightly. The detents in Nintendo's analog range were perfect and solved this.
I think Nintendo was on to something when they named their Classic Controller: symmetrical analog sticks are RETRO and obsolete.
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I doubt Sony would ever do asymmetry simply because to many it would be like admitting MS was right about something. CZroe is right. The current Sony design is based on what originally was Sony forcing analog sticks onto a controller designed originally without them. I don't mind the symmetry aspect but the sticks need to be moved to a more natural position and relegate the touchpad to a more secondary position.
I can only speak for myself, but I do believe the PS4 controller is much more refined and far more comfortable than the PS3 controller. The PS3 controller was horrible to me. The analog triggers were practically useless ergonomic-wise. The fact that GT5 didn't even default to them says something.
All in all I believe the XB1-asymetric design is the best of them all right now, but the PS4 controller is very solid and holds up well which is partially due to its larger size and spread out controls. That's in my hands and I've spent a lot of time with both. In spite of the crappy D-pad, I felt that the 360 controller owned the PS3 controller in most ways, but current gen is much closer.
The XB1 vibrating triggers is genius IMO.
I can only speak for myself, but I do believe the PS4 controller is much more refined and far more comfortable than the PS3 controller. The PS3 controller was horrible to me. The analog triggers were practically useless ergonomic-wise. The fact that GT5 didn't even default to them says something.
All in all I believe the XB1-asymetric design is the best of them all right now, but the PS4 controller is very solid and holds up well which is partially due to its larger size and spread out controls. That's in my hands and I've spent a lot of time with both. In spite of the crappy D-pad, I felt that the 360 controller owned the PS3 controller in most ways, but current gen is much closer.
The XB1 vibrating triggers is genius IMO.
sze5003
Lifer
- Aug 18, 2012
- 14,201
- 634
- 126
The dual shock 4 is a huge improvement over the dual shock 3. Sturdy, fits good in the hands, and I feel it's pretty ergonomic. The Xbox one controller is also just as comfortable for me although it's a bit larger. The vibrating triggers is cool and have multiple functions as apposed to the ds4 just having a vibrating motor. On the dashboad and other apps the Xbox one controller vibrations are subtle and only go full throttle when you are gaming.
I think Sony should design a better battery for the dual shock 4..that battery compared to my charge and play is ridiculous.
I think Sony should design a better battery for the dual shock 4..that battery compared to my charge and play is ridiculous.
I also believe this is the reason. It has to do with pride more than anything else.
TheSlamma
Diamond Member
- Sep 6, 2005
- 7,625
- 5
- 81
Only thing I would change is that touch pad thing, too close to the option button but mostly way too useless.
CZroe
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2001
- 24,195
- 857
- 126
There's a good reason Sony never truly rocks the controller-design boat: They suck at it.
That's the PlayStation 3's prototype controller design. Of course, the public reaction was negative, so they ultmately made the SIXAXIS look exactly like the DualShock 2. The Wii's success finally forced them to make a serious attempt at reinventing the ancient PlayStation controller based on pre-analog SNES-inspired design, so we got PS Move.
If you look at history you can see why they were so conservative with the DualShock 4 design, which attempts to blend the two.
Microsoft hasn't made big changes since moving from the huge "Duke" to the type S controller, but their current controller is at least refined from a much more modern design to begin with while Sony is saddled with their "iconic" design. Nintendo and Sega have never been conservative with controller designs. All their best innovations simply got shoved into Sony's existing design. It shouldn't get any respect. It should have any fans. That doesn't stop millions who grew up with it from ignorantly declaring it "best!" The PlayStation was such a runaway success that we went through two console generations where the majority of gamers simply didn't experience anything else. Of course they prefer the DualShock design, even if it barely qualifies as "design."
Nintendo was the first with a D-pad which everyone copied and it became industry standard. They were the first with shoulder buttons which everyone copied and it became industry standard. They were the first with a standard analog controller which everyone copied and it became industry standard (Sega's 3D analog controller was cool, but not standard). They were the first to add expansion ports to their controller which at least Sega and Microsoft has continued to do and Sony probably wished they had done (Sony's PS Move and controller keyboard attachments and headsets are separate Bluetooth devices which can easily hit the 7 device max with a few players). Using this expansion, Nintendo was the first to add force feedback (Rumble Pak), which everyone copied and it became industry standard. They were the first with a 1st-party wireless RF controller (Wavebird) which became industry standard (Sega had some slick IR controllers for Genesis). Sega and Nintendo started second-screen gaming. No, I'm not talking about PocketStation, VMU, etc, I'm talking about Neo-Geo Pocket Color and GBA link support. Now, everything from the DS to the Wii U and even Sony has adopted it (PS4 has Xperia phone/tablet integration).
Offset analog as an advancement is a bit harder to nail down so I'd call it "obvious, emergent, design" for modern controllers as a result of the industry accepting analog thumbsticks for primary directional input where the only notable non-innovator is Sony. The real advancement is prioritization of analog as the standard input in 3D games. The rest goes hand-in hand with it. Nintendo's analog stick was prioritized on the N64 with it's own grip/handle with a second set of directional controls (C-buttons or D-pad) for modern two-handed directional input. They were the first mover in standard analog input so it makes sense that they would be a bit more cautious with their design so it could also be played like a traditional controller. The Saturn 3D controller wasn't standard and shouldn't count, but the Dreamcast certainly prioritized it, even if it lacked the second set of directional controls. The XBOX launched days before the Gamecube and both had offset analog so I'm not sure who to credit but at least both were emerging with the same logical dual-analog designs. This continued through all subsequent generations: The Wii has an analog stick on the Nunchuk combined with pointer pointer + D-pad on the other hand. The 3DS prioritizes analog input. The Wii U Pro and Tablet controllers have dual analog that prioritizes analog even though the sticks aren't offset (causes issues with button access on the right).
That's the PlayStation 3's prototype controller design. Of course, the public reaction was negative, so they ultmately made the SIXAXIS look exactly like the DualShock 2. The Wii's success finally forced them to make a serious attempt at reinventing the ancient PlayStation controller based on pre-analog SNES-inspired design, so we got PS Move.
If you look at history you can see why they were so conservative with the DualShock 4 design, which attempts to blend the two.
Microsoft hasn't made big changes since moving from the huge "Duke" to the type S controller, but their current controller is at least refined from a much more modern design to begin with while Sony is saddled with their "iconic" design. Nintendo and Sega have never been conservative with controller designs. All their best innovations simply got shoved into Sony's existing design. It shouldn't get any respect. It should have any fans. That doesn't stop millions who grew up with it from ignorantly declaring it "best!" The PlayStation was such a runaway success that we went through two console generations where the majority of gamers simply didn't experience anything else. Of course they prefer the DualShock design, even if it barely qualifies as "design."
Nintendo was the first with a D-pad which everyone copied and it became industry standard. They were the first with shoulder buttons which everyone copied and it became industry standard. They were the first with a standard analog controller which everyone copied and it became industry standard (Sega's 3D analog controller was cool, but not standard). They were the first to add expansion ports to their controller which at least Sega and Microsoft has continued to do and Sony probably wished they had done (Sony's PS Move and controller keyboard attachments and headsets are separate Bluetooth devices which can easily hit the 7 device max with a few players). Using this expansion, Nintendo was the first to add force feedback (Rumble Pak), which everyone copied and it became industry standard. They were the first with a 1st-party wireless RF controller (Wavebird) which became industry standard (Sega had some slick IR controllers for Genesis). Sega and Nintendo started second-screen gaming. No, I'm not talking about PocketStation, VMU, etc, I'm talking about Neo-Geo Pocket Color and GBA link support. Now, everything from the DS to the Wii U and even Sony has adopted it (PS4 has Xperia phone/tablet integration).
Offset analog as an advancement is a bit harder to nail down so I'd call it "obvious, emergent, design" for modern controllers as a result of the industry accepting analog thumbsticks for primary directional input where the only notable non-innovator is Sony. The real advancement is prioritization of analog as the standard input in 3D games. The rest goes hand-in hand with it. Nintendo's analog stick was prioritized on the N64 with it's own grip/handle with a second set of directional controls (C-buttons or D-pad) for modern two-handed directional input. They were the first mover in standard analog input so it makes sense that they would be a bit more cautious with their design so it could also be played like a traditional controller. The Saturn 3D controller wasn't standard and shouldn't count, but the Dreamcast certainly prioritized it, even if it lacked the second set of directional controls. The XBOX launched days before the Gamecube and both had offset analog so I'm not sure who to credit but at least both were emerging with the same logical dual-analog designs. This continued through all subsequent generations: The Wii has an analog stick on the Nunchuk combined with pointer pointer + D-pad on the other hand. The 3DS prioritizes analog input. The Wii U Pro and Tablet controllers have dual analog that prioritizes analog even though the sticks aren't offset (causes issues with button access on the right).
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It's a great way for Sony to ensure that 3rd parties wont be able to make compatible controllers, though.
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