Sony: "Only *we* have true 1080p, not those imposters. By the way, launch title Resistance: Fall of Man will be 720p."

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: BD2003
No, they should be doing 720p,

Sony doesn't "do" anything. They put out the hardware that is capable of it. The developers of each game decide what they want to "do". and in this case, they are.

which is a good balance between image quality and frame rate on next gen systems. X360 could have done 1080p out of the box if they chose, they just didnt bother, because it was STUPID.

No, they didnt bother because 1080p was too new at the time.

Now that Sony is muddying the waters with all this talk of how 1080p is something only the PS3 can do, etc, MS was forced to respond by issuing a software patch.

Yes, which basically does nothing. Upsampling is useless. talk about "marketing bullet points". Theres one right there. PS3 is still the only console capable of native 1080p.

Reminds me of those two articles from Katrina, "looting" and "finding". "muddying" and "advertising".

No, no it's not. If it were useless, it wouldn't be researched and implemented.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: So
Thanks to the whole Lik-Sang fiasco, I now officially hate Sony. I don't care if the PS3 is made of solid gold, Sony won't see another penny of my $, ever.

did you like sony before?
or are you looking for more reasons to hate them.

i see company biasing pointless. i have no qualms on either console manufacturer, nor do I have really any qualms on any company anymore.
i used to prefer AMD, and still run AMD, but realize Intel has better parts, for the time being.
i used to hate Microsoft and their Windows OS, but I realize, whats the point? Might as well use Windows because its easy, and Microsoft is merely doing what a strong company would do. and the Xbox consoles aren't bad at all, they just don't offer what I want.

see, biasing towards and againsts companies gets you nowhere. so why so much anamosity, I don't know.
if you don't like a company, so be it, but it seems most people on ATOT when it comes to disliking a company, actively search for reasons to do so.
personally, Sony did what was in its best interest as a public company by shutting down Lik-sang.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: NFS4
You make absolutely NO sense.

What he is saying is that Sony has been making 1080p a big deal this go around...so much so that even Microsoft had to chime in add their own 1080p support for the Xbox 360.

The problem (according to this developer) is that while it technically IS possible to 1080p on the PS3, for their application, it just isn't feasible to do so.

It's like bragging that your Ferrari 360 Modena can do 180 MPH, but neglecting to tell your buddies that your tires are only rated for 90 MPH maximum.

Bold, Italicized, and Underlined for emphasis. While my ferrari's tires are only rated for 90mph, the guy next door's ferrari's tires are rated at 500mph.

 

[BD2003]

Sony doesn't "do" anything. They put out the hardware that is capable of it. The developers of each game decide what they want to "do". and in this case, they are.

What they *do* is make hardware. And their hardware is ill equipped to do what it's claiming to do. The developers have to deal with that. They'll come up with interesting ways, but something is going to be sacrificed to reach that marketing bullet point.

No, they didnt bother because 1080p was too new at the time.

Exactly. Too new = current hardware is ill equipped to handle it. I'd like to believe they made an active decision not to force programmers into concurrently programming for THREE resolutions. Consoles are not like PCs, where you just throw the graphics out, and hope the GPU can keep up. They need to be specifically optimized for, and its hard enough to do that for essentially two distinct setups, let alone three.

Yes, which basically does nothing. Upsampling is useless. talk about "marketing bullet points". Theres one right there. PS3 is still the only console capable of native 1080p.

Current X360 games will be upsampled. Future 360 games can put out native 1080p.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: NFS4
You make absolutely NO sense.

What he is saying is that Sony has been making 1080p a big deal this go around...so much so that even Microsoft had to chime in add their own 1080p support for the Xbox 360.

The problem (according to this developer) is that while it technically IS possible to 1080p on the PS3, for their application, it just isn't feasible to do so.

It's like bragging that your Ferrari 360 Modena can do 180 MPH, but neglecting to tell your buddies that your tires are only rated for 90 MPH maximum.

Bold, Italicized, and Underlined for emphasis. While my ferrari's tires are only rated for 90mph, the guy next door's ferrari's tires are rated at 500mph.

Well then, your ferrari is retarded, and should rightfully be made fun of.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: pinion9
No, no it's not. If it were useless, it wouldn't be researched and implemented.

Last I checked, you can't make something out of nothing. You can fake it, but it'll never be as good as the real deal.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: NFS4
You make absolutely NO sense.

What he is saying is that Sony has been making 1080p a big deal this go around...so much so that even Microsoft had to chime in add their own 1080p support for the Xbox 360.

The problem (according to this developer) is that while it technically IS possible to 1080p on the PS3, for their application, it just isn't feasible to do so.

It's like bragging that your Ferrari 360 Modena can do 180 MPH, but neglecting to tell your buddies that your tires are only rated for 90 MPH maximum.

Bold, Italicized, and Underlined for emphasis. While my ferrari's tires are only rated for 90mph, the guy next door's ferrari's tires are rated at 500mph.

I counter with this question. How many first party PS3 titles will support 1080p? If 1080p is a key selling point and should showcase the true hardware capabilities of the console, there should be quite a few 1080p titles on tap for release.

 

[ElFenix]

sounds like 32 bit color on the original TNT.

 

[James3shin]

GOD DAMN!

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: BD2003
If 1080p is going to be the resolution the devs are programming for, they are going to have to assume whats left of the VRAM at 1080p is all they'll ever have for textyres. By doing so, they would be leaving that VRAM empty at 720p, and 480p.

Thats a valid point, but such is the nature of the console, and its no different for any other console out there. 2 or 3 years from now when (hopefully) everyone has a 1080p TV, it'll be a different story.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: pinion9
No, no it's not. If it were useless, it wouldn't be researched and implemented.

Last I checked, you can't make something out of nothing. You can fake it, but it'll never be as good as the real deal.

I didn't say it was the best, but it isn't useless, as you stated.

 

[nycxandy]

Oh the irony.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Fanboy alert! Fanboy alert! :laugh:

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: BD2003
If 1080p is going to be the resolution the devs are programming for, they are going to have to assume whats left of the VRAM at 1080p is all they'll ever have for textyres. By doing so, they would be leaving that VRAM empty at 720p, and 480p.

Thats a valid point, but such is the nature of the console, and its no different for any other console out there. 2 or 3 years from now when (hopefully) everyone has a 1080p TV, it'll be a different story.

In 2-3 years from now, when everyone has 1080p, is Sony going to upgrade our PS3s for free so developers can produce quality games at 1080p?

I would rather play Far Cry at 720p or 1080i than I would Frogger or Pong at 1080p.

The developer had to make a choice between content and display. How will this choice be different in 2 years?

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: BD2003
If 1080p is going to be the resolution the devs are programming for, they are going to have to assume whats left of the VRAM at 1080p is all they'll ever have for textyres. By doing so, they would be leaving that VRAM empty at 720p, and 480p.

Thats a valid point, but such is the nature of the console, and its no different for any other console out there. 2 or 3 years from now when (hopefully) everyone has a 1080p TV, it'll be a different story.

It IS different, or WAS different for the X360, when they only have to deal with two resolutions. And there are already problems - some games are significantly faster at 480p than at 720p. That same game would be a total DOG on 1080p.

It's not even a problem at all for the Wii - one res, so it can be directly optimized for. EVERYONE is running under the same spec, assuming they don't try any hacks like Sony did with GT4.

Last I checked, you can't make something out of nothing. You can fake it, but it'll never be as good as the real deal.

But if you put 90mph tires on a ferrari, it's never going to be the *real deal* in the first place.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: NFS4
I counter with this question. How many first party PS3 titles will support 1080p? If 1080p is a key selling point and should showcase the true hardware capabilities of the console, there should be quite a few 1080p titles on tap for release.

Honestly I don't know the answer. Do you? Just tell us. That would be something important to know for this discussion.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: NFS4
I counter with this question. How many first party PS3 titles will support 1080p? If 1080p is a key selling point and should showcase the true hardware capabilities of the console, there should be quite a few 1080p titles on tap for release.

Honestly I don't know the answer. Do you? Just tell us. That would be something important to know for this discussion.

This is the best I could find:

This is why I get hung up on the image encoding quality of HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray. That's where you're going to see a perceivable difference. As to games, 99% of PS3 titles will natively render at 720p; the few that come out with 1080"x" support are either going to be simple classic arcade ports that don't need to render complex scenes (think the original Battlezone), or will give up a lot of in-game visual effects and simply won't look very good (hence the poor showing of Gran Turismo "HD" at this past E3).

http://ozymandias.com/archive/2006/08/1...etween-1080i-and-1080p-for-Movies.aspx

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: BD2003

It IS different, or WAS different for the X360, when they only have to deal with two resolutions. And there are already problems - some games are significantly faster at 480p than at 720p. That same game would be a total DOG on 1080p.

It's not even a problem at all for the Wii - one res, so it can be directly optimized for. EVERYONE is running under the same spec, assuming they don't try any hacks like Sony did with GT4.

aaaaaand we come back full circle to the 480p, 14.4 modem, 24mb ram etc..... console. Some people want graphics, some people want content, some gameplay. PS3 will be able to offer a lot of variation in games to please a lot of different tastes. I think its great.

But if you put 90mph tires on a ferrari, it's never going to be the *real deal* in the first place.

The ferrari analogy wasn't mine.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: NFS4
I counter with this question. How many first party PS3 titles will support 1080p? If 1080p is a key selling point and should showcase the true hardware capabilities of the console, there should be quite a few 1080p titles on tap for release.

Honestly I don't know the answer. Do you? Just tell us. That would be something important to know for this discussion.

This is the best I could find:

This is why I get hung up on the image encoding quality of HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray. That's where you're going to see a perceivable difference. As to games, 99% of PS3 titles will natively render at 720p; the few that come out with 1080"x" support are either going to be simple classic arcade ports that don't need to render complex scenes (think the original Battlezone), or will give up a lot of in-game visual effects and simply won't look very good (hence the poor showing of Gran Turismo "HD" at this past E3).

http://ozymandias.com/archive/2006/08/1...etween-1080i-and-1080p-for-Movies.aspx

As it should be. I laughed the first time I heard Sony was actually pimping 1080p for use in retail games, as more than just a novelty.

 

[BD2003]

aaaaaand we come back full circle to the 480p, 14.4 modem, 24mb ram etc..... console. Some people want graphics, some people want content, some gameplay. PS3 will be able to offer a lot of variation in games to please a lot of different tastes. I think its great.

And you've come full circle back into the square of ignorance. Why can you not understand that 1080p on the PS3 is a farce? It can't be done properly with 256mb of VRAM. 720p will look better.

The ferrari analogy wasn't mine.

But still works just the same.

 

[pinion9]

Randay...please admit you are a fanboy.

Both Sony and MS have 1080p support, yet Sony advertises how they are the only ones with it. Game developer working with Sony admits the hardware isn't good enough to run 1080p on Sony hardware. This won't change as time goes on, because the PS3 hardware will not change.

Sure, some games will work in 1080p, in the same way that my GeForce FX 5600 can run BF2 at highest resolutions and textures...if you don't mind getting 4 FPS.

PS3 can theoretically run games in 1080p, and it works with some games if they have relatively low on-screen content.

 

[NFS4]

Of the following launch titles, it appears that only NBA '07 is 1080p:

SCEA Launch Titles

Resistance: Fall of Man
NBA 07
Genji: Days of the Blade

Third Party Publisher Titles

Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
Call of Duty 3
EA Sports Fight Night Round 3
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
F.E.A.R.
Full Auto 2: Battlelines
Madden NFL 07
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Mobile Suit Gundam: CROSSFIRE
NBA 2K7
Need For Speed Carbon
NHL 2K7
RIDGE RACER 7
Sonic the Hedgehog
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas
Tony Hawk's Project 8
Untold Legends Dark Kingdom

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: NFS4
I counter with this question. How many first party PS3 titles will support 1080p? If 1080p is a key selling point and should showcase the true hardware capabilities of the console, there should be quite a few 1080p titles on tap for release.

Honestly I don't know the answer. Do you? Just tell us. That would be something important to know for this discussion.

This is the best I could find:

This is why I get hung up on the image encoding quality of HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray. That's where you're going to see a perceivable difference. As to games, 99% of PS3 titles will natively render at 720p; the few that come out with 1080"x" support are either going to be simple classic arcade ports that don't need to render complex scenes (think the original Battlezone), or will give up a lot of in-game visual effects and simply won't look very good (hence the poor showing of Gran Turismo "HD" at this past E3).

http://ozymandias.com/archive/2006/08/1...etween-1080i-and-1080p-for-Movies.aspx

Well we are talking launch titles so I don't doubt it. Launch titles usually aren't very spectacular. Usually just remakes since there is no time for development for third partys and since noones gonna launch a console with just a couple of games.

 

[James3shin]

how is live 1080p while tiger is stuck at 720p? The nizzle? After seeing GTHD, I think we'll see a few games with 1080p.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Of the following launch titles, it appears that only NBA Live '07 is 1080p:

SCEA Launch Titles

Resistance: Fall of Man
NBA 07
Genji: Days of the Blade

Third Party Publisher Titles

Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
Call of Duty 3
EA Sports Fight Night Round 3
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
F.E.A.R.
Full Auto 2: Battlelines
Madden NFL 07
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Mobile Suit Gundam: CROSSFIRE
NBA 2K7
Need For Speed Carbon
NHL 2K7
RIDGE RACER 7
Sonic the Hedgehog
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas
Tony Hawk's Project 8
Untold Legends Dark Kingdom

On a somewhat related note, I saw madden 2007 in 720p on the 360 in CC the other day. It was absolutely choking - 20fps maximum. I'd imagine it's smooth at 480p, but damn...I can't deal with 20fps, no matter how crisp it is.

I also saw tomb raider in 480p, and even that was choking. And didn't look that good. It almost seems as if they arbitrarily locked the frame rate in 480p so as not to make the performance in 720p seem so bad. Cause I cant have imagined it running any slower than it already was and still remain playable.