Something's wrong with my engine

[Ultima]

Well, I just checked the timing and the camshaft was almost perfectly dead on. The distributer base was off but that had been compensated for by turning the distributer itself. Now, as I don't have a timing belt tensioner how do I retension the belt without taking apart everything, and what the heck is wrong with my engine?

 

[Ultima]

So how do I get the timing belt tight without using a tensioner and without removing the bottom part of the timing cover (a big pain in the ass)?

I don't get it.. in the haynes book that I have it says "apply tension to the timing belt while tightening the tensioner bolt" but I tighten that bolt as much as I can and the timing belt is no tighter than it was before. How the heck does making the tensioner tighten do anything anyway? It doesn't actually move! I'm not getting this...

 

[Pepsi90919]

so how's your compression?

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
so how's your compression?

you don't need to run a fancy test to tell if your compression is off or not. 😛
does the car burn oil, is it alot slower than it used to be even when at WOT, is there oil around the spark plugs?
that's bad compression give-aways 😛

 

[edfcmc]

Check the EGR valve.....

 

[Zenmervolt]

You know, it's possible that you somehow folded the head gasket a tiny bit while putting the head back on the car. Had that happen with an oil pan gasket once and it took me the longest time to figure it out because my reasoning was something like "I just fixed the gasket, it can't be bad". 😱

ZV

 

[edfcmc]

Head gaskets usually are thick and have some metal on them so it is very difficult to fold....but i guess anything is possible.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: edfcmc
Head gaskets usually are thick and have some metal on them so it is very difficult to fold....but i guess anything is possible.

Yeah, I'll agree that it's not too likely, but it definitely sounds as though there is either a vacuum leak or a compression problem. If it does happen to be compression, then the first thing I'd check is the thing I'd just fixed. Gaskets are weird things, sometimes they seal pretty much no matter what, and sometimes the smallest thing keeps them from working right.

ZV

 

[Soybomb]

Originally posted by: Ultima
So how do I get the timing belt tight without using a tensioner and without removing the bottom part of the timing cover (a big pain in the ass)?

I don't get it.. in the haynes book that I have it says "apply tension to the timing belt while tightening the tensioner bolt" but I tighten that bolt as much as I can and the timing belt is no tighter than it was before. How the heck does making the tensioner tighten do anything anyway? It doesn't actually move! I'm not getting this...

How'd you get it off? You should really have to pull the lower cover and loosen the tensioner bolt, take out the slack, and then tighten it again. some pics on tensioning

Who told you to torque the head to 95 ft/lbs?

First pass - All bolts to 45 ft-lbs (61 N-m)
Second pass - All bolts to 65 ft-lbs (88 N-m)
Third pass - All bolts again to 65 ft-lbs (88 N-m)
Forth pass - All bolts 1/4 turn (90 degrees)
starting in the center, working out, alternating sides

Check for vacuum leaks, etc too still. I'd still vote for double checking that cam because it sounds so spot on 😉

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Soybomb


How'd you get it off? You should really have to pull the lower cover and loosen the tensioner bolt, take out the slack, and then tighten it again. some pics on tensioning

Who told you to torque the head to 95 ft/lbs?

First pass - All bolts to 45 ft-lbs (61 N-m)
Second pass - All bolts to 65 ft-lbs (88 N-m)
Third pass - All bolts again to 65 ft-lbs (88 N-m)
Forth pass - All bolts 1/4 turn (90 degrees)
starting in the center, working out, alternating sides

Check for vacuum leaks, etc too still. I'd still vote for double checking that cam because it sounds so spot on 😉

The 95 ft/lbs was mentioned with this paper that came with the head bolts, saying that after the 1/4 turn they should all be at 95ft/lbs.

All I did to release the tension on the belt is loosen the center bolt on the tensioner. I thought that's all you had to do to tighten it up as well, but I didn't know about the other bolt on the tensioner. Still, how does any of that actually tighten the belt? Ah well, maybe I'll pick up a tensioner tool at the store tomorrow, cause I really don't feel like jacking the car up, removing all the belts and taking off the rest of that crap just because of that. On another forum someone mentioned using pliers, but I can't seem to reach the bolt with those.

I'll also check out that link you posted 🙂

 

[Soybomb]

The tension is a big pulley with a a solid center section that is thicker than the pulley and has hole through the middle. When you loosen/tighten it you're loosening the bolt that runs through the middle of it. This bolt usually pulls the center section against the block. On the outerside there is an offset weldnut. You can put an adjustable wrench on this and push toward the engine and it will tighten the belt. When you have it tensioned you tighten the bolt to lock it into place. You can't do this with pliers and I don't see how another tensioner will help. Without being familiar with how you tension the belt though I'm curious how you did it after you put the head on.

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Soybomb
The tension is a big pulley with a a solid center section that is thicker than the pulley and has hole through the middle. When you loosen/tighten it you're loosening the bolt that runs through the middle of it. This bolt usually pulls the center section against the block. On the outerside there is an offset weldnut. You can put an adjustable wrench on this and push toward the engine and it will tighten the belt. When you have it tensioned you tighten the bolt to lock it into place. You can't do this with pliers and I don't see how another tensioner will help. Without being familiar with how you tension the belt though I'm curious how you did it after you put the head on.

Sorry, I meant tensioner tool, not tensioner. To take the belt off the head and put the head back on the first time I never touched the tensioner. It was a lot harder to put the belt back on that way though so I figured this time I'll loosen the tensioner. All I touched was the center bolt, but that seemed enough to loosen the tension on the belt.

Now, to get the belt tight again I just rotate the pulley itself until the belt is tight and then tighten the center bolt? I tried that earlier by turning the pulley with my hand but the tension on the belt seemed the same. I already learned that the center bolt itself won't do anything to tighten up the belt. Argh.. this is frustrating me.

 

[Soybomb]

No there is actually a large nut welded to the inner stationary part of the pulley that you will nut to put an adjustable wrench on (its like a 1.25" inch nut so you'll know) and turn to add the tension. When you pull the lower cover you'll see it. If necessary just unscrew the center bolt and the pully wall come off and you can look at it and see how it works.

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Soybomb
No there is actually a large nut welded to the inner stationary part of the pulley that you will nut to put an adjustable wrench on (its like a 1.25" inch nut so you'll know) and turn to add the tension. When you pull the lower cover you'll see it. If necessary just unscrew the center bolt and the pully wall come off and you can look at it and see how it works.

I think I understand how the tensioner works now. You have the outer part which rotates freely on a stationary inner part, and this inner part has a hole through the middle, but not quite the center, so rotating the pulley pushes it closer or farther away from the belt. So I guess there is no way of doing this without pulling the lower cover off? That site you linked mentioned nothing about pulling the lower cover.. then again that was with a tensioning tool.

 

[Jzero]

A shot in the dark, but my '87 Sundance (non-turbo) exhibited similar guttering behavior when the O2 sensor went bad. If it isn't the timing, that may be a lead.

 

[RayH]

You may have a vacuum leak which would cause a lean condition leading to knock and the engine backing off timing. Check anything you disconnected in the intake path when you took off the head. If you took off the throttle body and reused the gasket you may want to put some high temp gasket seal on there.

If you there's a knock sensor on the engine block, make sure it isn't loose.

Check your plugs for correct gap.

Also check the plug side ends of your plug wires for tiny pin holes; they're a sign of arcing which will lead to the symptoms you're seeing. Trace the plug wires back to the distributor and any electrical connectors that may be loose.

 

[Ultima]

Ok, I adjusted the tensioner with my hand (oh, I also found the tensioner window to access it ) because it's really not accessible with the pliers, at least with that power steering belt in the way, but the belt still seems a little loose. How loose/tight should the belt be?

 

[Ultima]

Well, after taking it for a test run I think the timing is right, as the engine's power seems to be back and it doesn't sputter anymore, although the idle varies some. I'll take the timing belt to get adjusted tomorrow (and the timing checked) just to make sure. I didn't try any high-rpm driving because I don't want to snap the belt or anything so there may still be problems with power above 4000rpm.

A couple of things worry me...

1) Now, when the car is stopped in drive or reverse the idle will often drop dangerously low, and the car has stalled twice on me. I'm hoping this is just an issue of the computer getting used to the old timing. I'm leaving the battery negative cable disconnected overnight.

2) Oil and coolant levels have been dropping rapidly. The car has always leaked some oil, but not at this rate, and it hasn't leaked coolant which worries me.

 

[Soybomb]

Odd that you're loosing oil and coolant, any signs of them burning in the exhaust or leaking down the block? Sometimes as the air bubles in the cooling system burp out the coolant level will drop and make it look like you're loosing some but that shouldn't happen for oil 😀

Idle could be anything from an unplugged sensor to vacuum leak. The computer should loose its memory after about 15 minutes of having the negative battery cable disconnected and shouldn't really stall even then....

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Soybomb
Odd that you're loosing oil and coolant, any signs of them burning in the exhaust or leaking down the block? Sometimes as the air bubles in the cooling system burp out the coolant level will drop and make it look like you're loosing some but that shouldn't happen for oil 😀

Idle could be anything from an unplugged sensor to vacuum leak. The computer should loose its memory after about 15 minutes of having the negative battery cable disconnected and shouldn't really stall even then....

Well I fired the car up not long ago and it had a tiny bit of trouble starting, then started ok and I let it warm up. At first the idle was swinging around like crazy but it started settling down and by the time the car was warmed up I think it was hovering around 1000 rpm.

Now, when I put it into drive or reverse it would do the following: Drop to 500-600 RPM, shoot back up to 1000, then repeat the following cycle:

Drop to 800.. drop to 750 (at which point the car starts shaking like it's about to stall), then swing back up to 1000. 2 seconds later, repeat.

Hmm..

 

[Ultima]

Well I disconnected the PCV valve hose assembly from the intake manifold and it changed a couple things:

* Idle is very high in Park or Neutral (2000 - 3000rpm)
* The idle stays around 1000 in Drive or Reverse, instead of stalling like before.

Tomorrow I'm going to get the special T for the PCV valve (and reconnect it to the manifold of course) and see if that helps.

Also, many of the hoses had been replaced when I changed the head gasket.
I used regular vacuum hose slipped over the ends of the broken plastic tubing to replace that, and reinforced tubing (slightly smaller diameter, though) to replace some other ripped tubing. I used a regular T from Canadian Tire for one of the connections, and a universal T for the PCV hose assembly (I really wish I hadn't lost the original).