Something the press will never tell you about cigarettes

[MrDingleDangle]

At a neuroscience convention in San Diego, there was one person doing a study showing that nicotine stops alcohol from have the negative long term affect on your brain that it normally does, if inhaled while drinking

i am not promoting smoking...just a comment

 

[Juniper]

if inhaled while drinking ...

Sounds like a pretty aggressive method to me... Btw, how do you drink and inhale at the same time?

 

[Platypus]

If you drink and smoke at the same time, you have more problems then long term alcohol effects....

 

[Schlocemus]

<< If you drink and smoke at the same time, you have more problems then long term alcohol effects.... >>



Same thoughts here
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

 

[Hapless]

So we should ruin our lungs instead of our livers?

 

[MrDingleDangle]

<< So we should ruin our lungs instead of our livers? >>



no its more lungs and livers over liver and brain

 

[Czar]

So, we have the non smoker and non drinker... then we have the drunk chain smoker... both equaly healthy

sure you might not get the bad sideaffects from drinking but you get all the bad effects from smoking.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

i dont think you get his point.....point received over here

he is not saying smoking is good, he is saying, "hey, heres an actual benefit from smoking, but no one will tell you because it makes smoking sound better, and that would be unacceptable to most people." he did not say it outweighs the negative effects of smoking.

 

[MrDingleDangle]

<< i dont think you get his point.....point received over here

he is not saying smoking is good, he is saying, "hey, heres an actual benefit from smoking, but no one will tell you because it makes smoking sound better, and that would be unacceptable to most people." he did not say it outweighs the negative effects of smoking. >>



exactly...i still dont smoke...well a little when i drink (but have been doing that for years)...and would never suggest someone smoke becuase of this...

just thought it was an interesting fact

 

[vi edit]

How about if I chew some nicorrete

 

[jjones]

if you apply the patch over your mouth that will stop long term effects of alcohol on the brain too.

 

[ace31216]

I learn something new everyday

 

[tcsenter]

Hey, here's another something the press will never tell you about cigarette manufacturers. As early as the 1960's, two major tobacco companies were trying to develop 'safe' cigarettes. They tried hundreds of different substitutes, then tested the winners on smokers. The result? The smokers responded they wouldn't smoke that crap if they were paid to. After spending a few million bucks (1960's dollars) in vain to find an alternative that smokers would approve of, they gave up.

In fact, the much maligned "nicotine" manipulation that was alleged in court documents were the tobacco companies attempt to make these tobacco alternatives more palatable and pleasurable, because they knew that the key part of the 'experience' and 'pleasure' that smokers obtained from cigarettes was nicotine, which these alternative substances did not provide naturally. Without the nicotine delivery, smokers would never accept a tobacco alternative.

You have to pour over the court documents found on the vehemently anti-tobacco site www.thetruth.com to discover this (if they're still posted), because no media has ever reported it, nor will they.

Oh yeah, not to mention that tobacco companies were made to pull their ads from a myriad of marketing venues; magazines, billboards, racing, etc. all because they were allegedly 'marketing their products to children' (why children would be reading Hot Rod Magazine and Guns and Ammo, I don't know). The result? 10 years later smoking among teens increased. Oops!

 

[Perknose]

<< Oh yeah, not to mention that tobacco companies were made to pull their ads from a myriad of marketing venues; magazines, billboards, racing, etc. all because they were allegedly 'marketing their products to children' (why children would be reading Hot Rod Magazine and Guns and Ammo, I don't know). The result? 10 years later smoking among teens increased. Oops! >>



LOL, Maybe they should have pulled all the AK47 ads from the teen mags "Smoking Is Way Cool, Dude" and "Chicks Dig Eight Graders Who Light Up".

 

[tcsenter]

<< LOL, Maybe they should have pulled all the AK47 ads from the teen mags "Smoking Is Way Cool, Dude" and "Chicks Dig Eight Graders Who Light Up". >>

I know! And next to those there are the beer and liquor ads in The Engineering Times. Everyone knows that publication is highly popular among today's children. Slick ploy to get children to drink, smoke, buy guns and have sex.

 

[Looney]

You have to pour over the court documents found on the vehemently anti-tobacco site www.thetruth.com to discover this (if they're still posted), because no media has ever reported it, nor will they.

What BS... this HAS been reported by the media in the past, i should know, i've seen a 20/20 special of this a couple of years ago in a health psych class that was dealing with the tabacco industry (it's been pretty big deal in Canada, since the tabacco industry has done evils that you'd think only happen in the movies. Taxes in Ontario on cigarettes were so high that Ontario had the highest costs of cigarettes... the tabacco company made front companies that were smuggling smokes in from the US, and people were getting killed doing this. Then the tabacco companies, who created the front companies, would point to these front companies and say 'look at all this smuggling... half the people are buying blackmarket cigarettes anyways, so the high taxes aren't doing anything but getting people killed'... when infact it was the tabacco companies that were instigating all this).


Oh yeah, not to mention that tobacco companies were made to pull their ads from a myriad of marketing venues; magazines, billboards, racing, etc. all because they were allegedly 'marketing their products to children' (why children would be reading Hot Rod Magazine and Guns and Ammo, I don't know). The result? 10 years later smoking among teens increased. Oops!

hm, first you gave the link to www.thetruth.com, which is a hardcore anti-smoking compaign, then you make stupid comments like this? Did you even read the link you gave us? If you had, you would see that they do go on to prove that advertisement DOES increase teenage smokers, and that with the reduction of advertisements, there has been a reduction in teen smokers. If advertisement doesn't work, then why is it that 86% of teen smokers smoke the 3 more advertised brands? Obviously advertising does work, otherwise the industry wouldn't have spent billions on it.

And no, they didn't just take it off Hot Rod Magazine and Guns and Ammo... boy, talk about strawman fallacies. They took it out of ALL magazines, including Teen magazines, Rolling Stones, Times, Life, WWF magazines, etc, magazines that kids DID read.

Did you even take your advice of reading through all those court documents as you mentioned earlier? If you had, you would have known that it was discovered that the tobacco company had documents EXPLICITLY stating that the best market is teens, that after the age of 20 or so, the number of smokers that light up is less than 5%.

 

[StageLeft]

Smoking also speeds your metabolism a bit. That's great, now you can be 5 lbs lighter with cancer. Doesn't change it in my eyes

 

[Mister T]

I love it how people try to blame their addictions on Tobacco companies...

Why is not anheiser busch getting sued?
Or how about Coke/Pepsi..... caffeine bad...

Or how about McDonalds or BK.... lots of fat people dying from heart disease cause they eat a pile of grease.

 

[Mister T]

Oh, and I just don't by the argument that people did not know in the 60's that you got cancer from smoking....
You can to know something bad could happen when you are PURPOSELY inhaling smoke.
Then waking up in the morning coughing up a lung... or experiencing shortness of breathe from walking up a set of stairs.

I have zero sympathy for those that get sick from smoking...

 

[Jzero]

As I've always said: pick your cancer. Everything causes cancer. You can do what you can to prevent it, but you get to the point where you will spend your life living in a plastic bubble to avoid cancer only to learn that purified air and living in a bubble ALSO causes cancer.

They tell you that sitting in the sun causes skin cancer.
Then they tell you that sitting in the sun causes the body to produce vitamins that prevent colon cancer.
So I can stay out of the sun and get colon cancer or sit in the sun and get skin cancer.

Tofu supposedly prevents some kinds of cancer, so I try to eat a lot of tofu. I'm still waiting for the day some "study" links tofu to some other kind of cancer.

You know what bugs me about smoking studies? The samples the use. For instance when evaluating the health risks of cigar smoking, they say they're just as bad or worse than cigarettes, citing a study that analyzed the health of people who drop at least 4 cigars daily.
*News Flash* many cigar smokers do it as an indulgence and smoke once a day or even far less.
They also never take into account the relative purity of high-class tobaccos and "drug store" tobaccos.
And don't get me started on pipe smoking studies. The last major study conducted on us pipesters was done in the 50s and determined that a 2-bowl-a-day tobacco pipe smoker lived longer on the average than a non-smoker. I won't argue that, but you can never remove your bias from your studies.

 

[Descartes]

MisterT: While I agree with you for the most part, the circumstances were quite different in the 60's. People are impressionable, and when they see their favorite media icon smoking on tv, some people play the lemming. I think what's more pathetic is these kids today that start smoking, knowing damn well what's going to happen to them. It's definitely an act of weakness.

I've personally never smoked a single cigarette (or used any tobacco product), and I never will.

 

[Descartes]

<< The last major study conducted on us pipesters was done in the 50s and determined that a 2-bowl-a-day tobacco pipe smoker lived longer on the average than a non-smoker. >>



The only pipe smoker I've known had cancer of his lip, and had to have it removed. It left a gaping hole there, and it looks horrible...

 

[Looney]

I love it how people try to blame their addictions on Tobacco companies...

Who blames their addiction on tobacco companies? The problem is that the tobacco companies are purposely targetting kids, and are adjusting tobacco to be more addictive than they really should be, making it harder to quit.

You might not know much about human behavior, but advertisment is a very effective means of coercing behaviors. If advertisment was useless, do you think the industries would spend all those billions on it?

Why is not anheiser busch getting sued?
Or how about Coke/Pepsi..... caffeine bad...

Or how about McDonalds or BK.... lots of fat people dying from heart disease cause they eat a pile of grease.

You might if you discovered that they put additives in your Coke and Pepsi (in addition to the caffeine) to make you addicted to the stuff.


Oh, and I just don't by the argument that people did not know in the 60's that you got cancer from smoking....

No, people didn't tend to know that... you may know it now, but back then they didn't. Lung cancer takes decades to build up, and people often died from other complications before lung cancer developed... but evidence was starting to be released around that time that smoking did cause lung cancer, though it didn't reach the public as it would today (the media wasn't as pervasive as they are today).

I'm not a pharmacological Calvinist, and i also believe that people should take responsibility for their smoking... but it's clear that the tobacco companies are purposely targetting kids... and kids aren't exactly the most rational people in the world. How would you feel of having the tobacco industry target your kids? How would you feel if the Columbians cartels were permitted to advertise and target their cocaine at your kids? I use to be a heavy smoker, and am a social smoker now, and i've also done almost every street drug imaginable, including the 'hard narcotics' like coke and heroin, so i'm no prude. But if you don't see that specifically targetting kids is wrong, then there's no convincing you.

 

[Looney]

And don't get me started on pipe smoking studies. The last major study conducted on us pipesters was done in the 50s and determined that a 2-bowl-a-day tobacco pipe smoker lived longer on the average than a non-smoker. I won't argue that, but you can never remove your bias from your studies.


I don't know where you got this, but there has been at least several research on pipe-smoking since the 50s... here's one i found with a quick search, but i'm sure i would find more if i had searched PsychINFO or Medline.

Journal of the National Cancer Institute

 

[dullard]

<< Or how about McDonalds or BK.... lots of fat people dying from heart disease cause they eat a pile of grease. >>



There is a fundamental difference between eating fatty foods and smoking a cigarette - you need food to survive. I'll put this in an extreme example to best illistrate my point:

Suppose you were stranded on a deserted island with no resources except cigarettes and fatty McDonalds hamburgers. There are several courses you can take:
1) Eat nothing to avoid getting fat and dying of heart disease. Do not smoke to avoid getting cancer. Result: you die 1 month later from starvation.
2) Eat nothing, but smoke. Result: you die 1 month later from starvation.
3) Eat the hamburgers and smoke. Result: A) you die 30 years later from cancer or B) you die 30 years later from heart disease.
4) Eat the hamburgers, but don't smoke. Result: you die 30 years later from heart disease.

My conclusions: You survive short term if you eat, your short term survival is unaffected by smoking. Thus, there are absolutely NO reasons to smoke. There are good reasons to occasionally eat fatty foods. Do you see the difference?

Edit: You need roughly 30% of your calories from fat. Most people eat more than 30% so they should limit their trips to McDonalds, but that doesn't make McDonalds the reason you have heart trouble. In fact some people eat less than 30% of their calories in the form of fat, these people would be HEALTHIER to occasionally eat a fatty hamburger.

If you smoke and have cancer you know the most likely reason you got cancer was from your decision to smoke (there are other causes, but they have a very tiny chance of causing cancer when compared to smoking). If you have heart disease, it very well may have nothing to do with eating at McDonalds (it is the whole cumulation of every restaurant you ate at and everything you cooked at home). Thus the link from a smoke to cancer is much clearer than the link from a single restaurant to heart disease.