Something just dawned on me today. (Reguarding Mexico and the Spanish )

[Brutuskend]

Have you ever thought about how most Mexicans seem to strongly resemble the Native Americans from their country?

I mean how many North Americans resemble the Native people from North American that much?

It always disgusted me how the Spanish treated the South American people, but it would seem that they left more natives alive after their conquest in the south than WE did in the north! Other wise how could there be SO much native blood in the South American people as to allow them to so strongly resemble the indigenous population?

Don't get me wrong, I still hate what was done down there. But it would seem from the above evidence, that we in the North must have done FAR FAR worse to the natives that were HERE.

I know we did HORRIBLE things, but it never really struck me before just HOW much of the native population we must have killed!

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Have you ever thought about how most Mexicans seem to strongly resemble the Native Americans from their country?

I mean how many North Americans resemble the Native people from North American that much?

It always disgusted me how the Spanish treated the South American people, but it would seem that they left more natives alive after their conquest in the south than WE did in the north! Other wise how could there be SO much native blood in the South American people as to allow them to so strongly resemble the indigenous population?

Don't get me wrong, I still hate what was done down there. But it would seem from the above evidence, that we in the North must have done FAR FAR worse to the natives that were HERE.

I know we did HORRIBLE things, but it never really struck me before just HOW much of the native population we must have killed!

Most Hispanic people are part indigenous native "Indian" and part Spaniard - basically Caucasian. That's why some have blond hair and lighter skin. Very few ancestors of the "Mexicans" that were there when Cortez, et al, landed, remain.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

After the conquest, Spain was more interested in religious conversion than anything. There was a merging of peoples which we see today.
In the US, we were more interested in land and resources. Native Americans impeded the English based cultural expansion, and they were removed as they were an inconvience.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
After the conquest, Spain was more interested in religious conversion than anything. There was a merging of peoples which we see today.
In the US, we were more interested in land and resources. Native Americans impeded the English based cultural expansion, and they were removed as they were an inconvience.

To be fair, disease killed just as many if not more as the cowboys did. The most effective "weapon" against the Native Americans was small pox - introducing a foreign contagion into a virgin biological area; it's not pretty.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Xerox Man

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider After the conquest, Spain was more interested in religious conversion than anything. There was a merging of peoples which we see today. In the US, we were more interested in land and resources. Native Americans impeded the English based cultural expansion, and they were removed as they were an inconvience.

To be fair, disease killed just as many if not more as the cowboys did. The most effective "weapon" against the Native Americans was small pox - introducing a foreign contagion into a virgin biological area; it's not pretty.

I agree that disease did more than its share of killing. I doubt Cortez and a few horsemen wiped out an entire civilization so easily. Smallpox though was more effectively transmitted once Native Americans were rounded up to create more densely populated areas.

 

[Brutuskend]

Yeah I know my history, it just never dawned on me that WE were far worse than the spanish are far as killing off the native people.

Sad

And here all this time, because of the whole "Buy my religon or DIE" attitude I HATED the Spanish, when in fact we were far harder on OUR native people..

 

[XMan]

I agree that disease did more than its share of killing. I doubt Cortez and a few horsemen wiped out an entire civilization so easily. Smallpox though was more effectively transmitted once Native Americans were rounded up to create more densely populated areas.

Cortez landed in South America, then torched his ships. The only way his soldiers were going to get back home was to win. And don't underestimate the advantage of gunpowder and steel armor against the Bronze Age technology the Aztecs and Incas had at their disposal.

 

[XMan]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Yeah I know my history, it just never dawned on me that WE were far worse than the spanish are far as killing off the native people.

Sad

And here all this time, because of the whole "Buy my religon or DIE" attitude I HATED the Spanish, when in fact we were far harder on OUR native people..

Well unfortunately the guys that did it are long dead and buried.

The advantage of history is that you can look back on the mistakes of your forefathers, and not repeat them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Yeah I know my history, it just never dawned on me that WE were far worse than the spanish are far as killing off the native people. Sad And here all this time, because of the whole "Buy my religon or DIE" attitude I HATED the Spanish, when in fact we were far harder on OUR native people..

Brutuskend, the Spanish did not kill because of religion. Though you might think it odd, religion saved the population.
Here is how it went.
The Spanish wanted gold. Not so much land, but the wealth of the region. They would have killed everyone to get it, and indeed for a while it looked like they would. Xerox was right in pointing out that the higher civilizations were wiped out, but the same genomic population remained. The Catholic Church planted missions for the purpose of culturally and religiously integrating the natives into the Catholic/Spanish way of life. Unlike the Anglican Church (which BTW is the real reason the Constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion) was not controlled directly through the colonizing government, in this case Spain, but through Rome, which to a large part superceded the authority of the Spanish. Since you cannot convert dead people easily, the Catholics ended the widespread slaughter of the Native Americans there.

 

[Cyberian]

Most Hispanic people are part indigenous native "Indian" and part Spaniard - basically Caucasian. That's why some have blond hair and lighter skin. Very few ancestors of the "Mexicans" that were there when Cortez, et al, landed, remain.

Does anyone have an accepted definition of "Hispanic"?
I have heard so many that my head hurts.

 

[Renob]

I know we did HORRIBLE things


God how I hate it when people say " we " for things that were done many many years ago. Get over it people." We " did nothing to those people.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Xerox Man

I agree that disease did more than its share of killing. I doubt Cortez and a few horsemen wiped out an entire civilization so easily. Smallpox though was more effectively transmitted once Native Americans were rounded up to create more densely populated areas.

Cortez landed in South America, then torched his ships. The only way his soldiers were going to get back home was to win. And don't underestimate the advantage of gunpowder and steel armor against the Bronze Age technology the Aztecs and Incas had at their disposal.

Fear would have been Cortez best weapon IMO. Although as you rightly point out, their technology was more advanced, gunpowder was not what they would have had to rely on, rather swords. The armament of the day was point, shoot, miss, reload, shoot maybe hit. Granted that if fired into a crowd, somebody would have been injured or killed, the chief problem would have been the long reloading times of single shot weapons. If you scare the bejesus out of them though, terrifying them, it makes them much easier to slice them into bits when you did catch them.

 

[Brutuskend]

Well the Irish German part of me hates what my ancestors did, while the Native American part of me is just pissed about it.

The scary part is that one part still wants to "off" the other part!

One of these days I'm liable to wake up and find that the inner battle finally has a winner!!

 

[LordMaul]

(Reguarding Mexico and the Spanish )

You sure it's not regarding them?

 

[Brutuskend]

You sure it's not regarding them?

Picky picky...

Sorry, I'm a product of the public school system...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Renob
I know we did HORRIBLE things God how I hate it when people say " we " for things that were done many many years ago. Get over it people." We " did nothing to those people.

True and false.
WE did not do anything more than a hundred years ago. None of us were there. However, WE are here and living in a country shaped by our cultural influences, which have remained in many ways unchanged from those times. I would say no one here should go on a guilt trip for something they did not do, but history is history.
BTW, I am part American Indian, and I dont get worked up over this. My ancestors who lived then are long dead.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well the Irish German part of me hates what my ancestors did, while the Native American part of me is just pissed about it. The scary part is that one part still wants to "off" the other part! One of these days I'm liable to wake up and find that the inner battle finally has a winner!!

To hate the dead does nothing but harm the living. Just dont make their mistakes. You can always make your own

 

[LordMaul]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

You sure it's not regarding them?

Picky picky...

Sorry, I'm a product of the public school system...

That's no excuse. If you're not old and wise, you're something else, and that's bad.