Some tough positions with a poll.

[BlancoNino]

These are some tough issues for some people. These are the positions I think I argue the most and probably get the most nasty looks and name calling from...so that's why I posted them.

My answers:

Yes
Yes
Yes
No
No

As a result, many people literally hate me and think I'm evil. That's just life, though!

Where do you guys stand?

 

[bsobel]

No
No
Yes
No
No

The first two I would have said yes if it was worded more like "I believe rules controlling whom employers can hire or fire have become too much in the workers favor" and similarly with the second.

 

[daniel49]

yes
yes
no
yes
yes

 

[DaveSimmons]

Society has made a lot of progress towards color blindness over the last 30 years, but the 60-something whites in power learned as children that they were the master race.

So I think it's going to be another 20 years before I can agree with you on the first 2, that hiring and promoting of employees can be entirely the choice of the employer.

Right now taking away the civil rights laws in the US would lead back to hiring and promoting only whites at many companies, and we as a society have decided that isn't acceptable.

 

[Martin]

1 / 2 No - Businesses operate within a society and as such they are expected to conform to its principles.
3. Yes - better than what we have right now
4. Yes - A bit of spare change to feed a few poor kids, why not?
5. No - What you need is a society that values scholarship and intellect.

 

[blackllotus]

Does #2 mean that a business can refuse service to black people?

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Does #2 mean that a business can refuse service to black people?

I'm pretty sure that's what he has in mind.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Does #2 mean that a business can refuse service to black people?

Yes.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Does #2 mean that a business can refuse service to black people?

Yes.

As I said above, society has decided that apartheid is not going to be tolerated here.

Eventually we'll reach the point where one can be allowed to have a Klan Kafe that only hires and serves "the right people" because there will be so much opportunity at other companies that it can just be ignored as a rare, sad exception to equal treatment.

If society keeps moving forward we should be able to get rid of affirmative action and other set-asides as well.

 

[bobdelt]

Yes
Yes
Yes
No
No

 

[bobdelt]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Does #2 mean that a business can refuse service to black people?

Yes.

let the free market decide... if a business didnt sell to blacks... then the entire community should boycott and put it out of business...

but i guess thats just my attitude, let the market decide. same thing we smoking in public places... if it bothers people that much, then stop going, make those places change by using the power of the dollar.

its america... we should be free

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: bobdelt

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Does #2 mean that a business can refuse service to black people?

Yes.

let the free market decide... if a business didnt sell to blacks... then the entire community should boycott and put it out of business...

but i guess thats just my attitude, let the market decide. same thing we smoking in public places... if it bothers people that much, then stop going, make those places change by using the power of the dollar.

its america... we should be free

The market is very poor at decideding because if a company refuses to hire blacks most people will not know, so the market can't decided.

 

[ayabe]

I find it interesting that people on here that have voted, legaliztion drugs is 2 to 1 in favor, ATM.

But when these initiatives are put to a ballot, they fail. Even in places like Alaska where most people are fairly liberal.

Why is that? Is it that we don't all vote? Or is that people on here tend to be below the age of 40(generalizing) and therefore more liberal?

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: bobdelt
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
No

Congratulations! You scored 100% on the BlancoNino test! Here's a

 

[Ronstang]

Anyone who thinks schools need more money is simply a knee-jerk liberal. On the whole the US spends more per child yet gets less for their dollar. Throwing more money at the problem, the liberal way, is not the solution. Making teachers actually perform would be a great start. I have had lots of schooling and in all those years the teachers I remember as being special are very very few. Until schools take a close look at THEMSELVES and determine where THEY are failing the problem will not get better. The biggest problem today is there seems to be very little teaching coming from home. The schools can't do it all folks. The kids have to come to school willing to learn or no amount of money is going to change things.

 

[Wreckem]

Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
NO

 

[magomago]

I was thinking about the business question...on whether or not they can deny the right of service to anyone...


What about selling homes? Can they deny a house to a family if they are Asian - regardless of east asia or south west asia [lol i'm hearing it in my classes so i figure why not switch ]? What if they only want white people? These are actual issues that we have faced and various state supreme courts have ruled on...and they said you CAN'T turn down a family and refuse to sell them a house because of their race...and this is where you would ultimately agree~ and I simply could not accept that.

and that is ONE instance...my god there are numerous others that we have dealt with in the past.

and i didn't vote yet - i need to think....

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: magomago
I was thinking about the business question...on whether or not they can deny the right of service to anyone...


What about selling homes? Can they deny a house to a family if they are Asian - regardless of east asia or south west asia [lol i'm hearing it in my classes so i figure why not switch ]? What if they only want white people? These are actual issues that we have faced and various state supreme courts have ruled on...and they said you CAN'T turn down a family and refuse to sell them a house because of their race...and this is where you would ultimately agree~ and I simply could not accept that.

and that is ONE instance...my god there are numerous others that we have dealt with in the past.

and i didn't vote yet - i need to think....

If someone doesn't want to sell you their home, regardless of the reason, they do not have to. How are you going to make them? If they are racists then that is their problem but why should the government force them to do something they don't want to with their legal property? Find another house.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Does #2 mean that a business can refuse service to black people?

I would classify anti-discrimination laws as written agreements in our society so I would say no it does not include that.

 

[imported_Lothar]

No.
No.
No.
Yes.
No.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Does #2 mean that a business can refuse service to black people?

I would classify anti-discrimination laws as written agreements in our society so I would say no it does not include that.

The OP has stated "yes" to Blackllotus, so my answers to question 1 and 2 remains the same.

 

[Vic]

Yes, at-will employment also gives the employee the right to walk out if they want to.

Yes, however I would strongly condemn the practice if racially motivated, and would lead boycotts against any business that would do so. Even the KKK wackos deserve their free speech, if only because allowing them to speak their mind makes it easier for us to identify them.

Yes, of course.

Yes. Children are not of the age of consent and thus not capable of providing for themselves in the fashion that is to be expected of adults, nor should children be held responsible for the failings of their parents. Properly cared-for and educated children are also the only hope for the future, and it is the best interests of every person.

I didn't answer the last one. Schools need a regular and constant supply of funding. Whether or not they need MORE money is simply not something I can answer, as the MORE adds too many variables. I will say that our current methods of teaching, standardized tests and all, are horribly inadequate and need to be revamped, with emphasis on the children and not the teachers or staff.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Does #2 mean that a business can refuse service to black people?

I would classify anti-discrimination laws as written agreements in our society so I would say no it does not include that.

BlancoNino's yes answer to that question seems to say he means only a written agreement _between the two parties_ should be allowed to govern who is hired, fired or served, i.e. no government constraints at all.

I agree in principle and in the long term, but for now I accept that some reverse discriminiation is needed to bring more balance to society.

Edit: but not in all things. For example here in Seattle parents are whining about not being able to use race to send kids out of their area to better public schools. My response to that is to take responsibility for the condition of your own school instead.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: magomago
I was thinking about the business question...on whether or not they can deny the right of service to anyone...


What about selling homes? Can they deny a house to a family if they are Asian - regardless of east asia or south west asia [lol i'm hearing it in my classes so i figure why not switch ]? What if they only want white people? These are actual issues that we have faced and various state supreme courts have ruled on...and they said you CAN'T turn down a family and refuse to sell them a house because of their race...and this is where you would ultimately agree~ and I simply could not accept that.

and that is ONE instance...my god there are numerous others that we have dealt with in the past.

and i didn't vote yet - i need to think....

When I first got in the real estate lending business 12 years ago, a part of my job was taking applications from customers. A standard application form was the Equal Credit Opportunity Act disclosure. Some people would see it and ask, do lenders really do that? Deny credit on the basis of race, etc.? My response to that remains the same now as then... what? and turn away perfectly good business? I'm here to make money.

So yeah, you could get some racist asshole who would do such a thing, but it's definitely not a competitive trait in a free market. I can just see the manager to the salesman, "Johnson, why didn't you close the Nakamoto deal like I told you to?" "But, sir, I couldn't... they're.... Asian... "
Right... that's the path to the unemployment line...

 

[Enig101]

Yes to all except I don't know what the "free lunch program" is.

As for school budgets, I think that they should increase the budget, definitely. That won't solve the problems alone though.