Some thoughts on our disunity prompted by a post

[Moonbeam]

This was posted in another thread:

"Why the attack of the right. IT is the Left that has caused all of Americas problems .

It is the left that Attacks anyone or anything that doesn't conform to their Idealism .

It is the left that claims intellectual superiority. LOL I am smarter than you . Just ask me LOL.

IT is the left that is paranoid of the right.

It is the left that uses logic to form thier Idealism . Spock your logical but your also an Idiot . Because you cann't comprehend anything that isn't logical.

It is the left that is distroying family values .

Its is the left that caused the problems in our school systems. This one is really funny because its the left destroying the foundation of their Idealism .

We can look at America and her problems other than economics. Every single problem can be traced back directly to the intellectual superior left .

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

+++++++++

The reaction was as you might expect.

We are deeply and profoundly polarized. It seems to me that in order to heal the divisions we will, somehow, a big somehow, have to start crediting the other side as being composed, to some real measure, I would think, of real human beings who react with real values.

So I thought, as someone who views himself more as a person on the left, I could express what I think is right about this conservative lunatic.

Obama wants to build a bridge between red and blue so we are going to have to practice more tolerance if we are going to too. But to keep this post as succinct as possible I will just do a bit. If you post your thoughts we can do more:

The poster claims the left destroys family values. I believe the loss of family values is indeed a tragedy for the nation. I think kids grow up best in loving and secure families. I think, then, that I agree with the poster's idealism and morality over family values but differ in what a family might be. It is the love and security I focus on and not the structure. We differ but are fundamentally the same, in my opinion.

 

[NoStateofMind]

I think the way to unity is to remove all lines of separation. Remove "left" vs "right, "democrat" vs "republican". You cannot mandate this change, it must be each individual at a time removing the blinders of "sides". We are all human and have differing views. See each persons views not as taking a side, but their opinion. This is the key.

 

[Slick5150]

The problem is the 2 party system lends itself to an "us vs. them" mentality. If you had more parties involved, there would be more unity as people would need support from those in other parties.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

The poster claims the left destroys family values. I believe the loss of family values is indeed a tragedy for the nation. I think kids grow up best in loving and secure families. I think, then, that I agree with the poster's idealism and morality over family values but differ in what a family might be. It is the love and security I focus on and not the structure. We differ but are fundamentally the same, in my opinion.

I would throw out for disscussion that the sterotype is that the right seems to focus more on providing family values through finiacial security and the left by providing emotional security. Familys need both.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
I think the way to unity is to remove all lines of separation. Remove "left" vs "right, "democrat" vs "republican". You cannot mandate this change, it must be each individual at a time removing the blinders of "sides". We are all human and have differing views. See each persons views not as taking a side, but their opinion. This is the key.

I agree. We should be united in our desire for liberty.

We have allowed the parties to successfully use the tactic of "divide and conquer."

While polls and elections can show which party won and which party lost, we Americans always seem to lose.

 

[Pabster]

The electorate is very polarized. Perhaps even more so than 2004.

It will take (IMHO) a defeat of large magnitude to bring things back in line. One set of philosophies must be clearly and thoroughly rejected.

And it will take a POTUS who is not a member of the Most Polarizing Politicians In Washington list.

 

[Perknose]

"Family values" took a hit when, sometime in the '60's or '70's, more and more stay at home Moms went to work.

No parent home most of the time, no family values.

So, we started expecting our school system to inculcate values, which they were never set up to do in a vacuum of little parental control.

Then, electronic entertainment rushed into the breach -- video games and TV sitcoms where the brightest person was the 12 year old, smart ass kid. If TV shows are famously pitched to the common denominator of the average 12 year old mind, what about first person shooters?

Are most video games not pitched to the average violent 12 year old mind?

This is not a right or left question, though ideologues on both sides would selfishly like you to think so.

 

[WelshBloke]

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

See when I read that I didn't think about America being polarized, I thought (and I'm not trying to be a smartarse) that the OP had mental problems.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Perknose
"Family values" took a hit when, sometime in the '60's or '70's, more and more stay at home Moms went to work.

No parent home most of the time, no family values.

So, we started expecting our school system to inculcate values, which they were never set up to do in a vacuum of little parental control.

Then, electronic entertainment rushed into the breach -- video games and TV sitcoms where the brightest person was the 12 year old, smart ass kid. If TV shows are famously pitched to the common denominator of the average 12 year old mind, what about first person shooters?

Are most video games not pitched to the average violent 12 year old mind?

This is not a right or left question, though ideologues on both sides would selfishly like you to think so.

QFMFT!

Ever since life in America required both parents to work it removed family values. The babysitter hardly if ever showed the same kind of care or willingness to teach the children about life than parents themselves. Someone being payed to care only care so much as to keep the children from dying before the parents got home.

When there is a parent with the child throughout their lives, I would bet anything they will be smarter and more adept at making wise decisions.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
QFMFT!

Ever since life in America required both parents to work it removed family values. The babysitter hardly if ever showed the same kind of care or willingness to teach the children about life than parents themselves. Someone being payed to care only care so much as to keep the children from dying before the parents got home.

When there is a parent with the child throughout their lives, I would bet anything they will be smarter and more adept at making wise decisions.

Yet so many Americans under the age of 50 have grown up in this manner. The damage is already done. The first generation to be neglected are starting to become grandparents themselves.

How do we elevate among this ENTIRE nation the critical importance behind parents raising their children? How do we abolish the rampant abandonment that comes with their parent?s busy lives?

If inflation does not go down, if the wages do not go up, society will not recover. Family values can return, slowly over time, if one parent alone is all that is required to bring home the bacon. We must defeat poverty or face the family values of an improvised third world nation.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

See when I read that I didn't think about America being polarized, I thought (and I'm not trying to be a smartarse) that the OP had mental problems.

So why even post what you thought?

Obviously you intended to take a stab at the OP.......so why post what you posted??Things that make you go hmmmmm

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

See when I read that I didn't think about America being polarized, I thought (and I'm not trying to be a smartarse) that the OP had mental problems.

So why even post what you thought?

Obviously you intended to take a stab at the OP.......so why post what you posted??Things that make you go hmmmmm

Like your post?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
I think the way to unity is to remove all lines of separation. Remove "left" vs "right, "democrat" vs "republican". You cannot mandate this change, it must be each individual at a time removing the blinders of "sides". We are all human and have differing views. See each persons views not as taking a side, but their opinion. This is the key.

I think that's good advise for not becoming two would up over the opinion of others, but to not become two wound up to one's own I would suggest that the realizations that belief is opinion can lead to non attachment to one's own opinion. The problem, as I see it, is that we become unconsciously attached to our belief because we were taught to be good and what we believe in IS good. We therefore become defensively attached to what we believe and at an unconscious level that we can't control. It is a profound and difficult, painful, spiritual journey to let go.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Slick5150
The problem is the 2 party system lends itself to an "us vs. them" mentality. If you had more parties involved, there would be more unity as people would need support from those in other parties.

Probably a very excellent point. Naturally, the problem becomes how to change the two party system. I don't think the two parties and their members want to do that. Somehow there needs to be some recognition and consensus to change, if this change is needed, for it to occur. This is, in short, something that people may need to come together on.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

The poster claims the left destroys family values. I believe the loss of family values is indeed a tragedy for the nation. I think kids grow up best in loving and secure families. I think, then, that I agree with the poster's idealism and morality over family values but differ in what a family might be. It is the love and security I focus on and not the structure. We differ but are fundamentally the same, in my opinion.

I would throw out for disscussion that the sterotype is that the right seems to focus more on providing family values through finiacial security and the left by providing emotional security. Familys need both.

This is exactly the kind of thing I think the parties can possible come to agree on with mutual understanding. Great!

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
I think the way to unity is to remove all lines of separation. Remove "left" vs "right, "democrat" vs "republican". You cannot mandate this change, it must be each individual at a time removing the blinders of "sides". We are all human and have differing views. See each persons views not as taking a side, but their opinion. This is the key.

I agree. We should be united in our desire for liberty.

We have allowed the parties to successfully use the tactic of "divide and conquer."

While polls and elections can show which party won and which party lost, we Americans always seem to lose.

If true and both parties were to agree, what is the hold up? Too busy fighting?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Pabster
The electorate is very polarized. Perhaps even more so than 2004.

It will take (IMHO) a defeat of large magnitude to bring things back in line. One set of philosophies must be clearly and thoroughly rejected.

And it will take a POTUS who is not a member of the Most Polarizing Politicians In Washington list.

I don't want the right and all the good values they conserve to be wiped off the face of the map. Can we instead find good things to agree on by dialog and looking deeper?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Perknose
"Family values" took a hit when, sometime in the '60's or '70's, more and more stay at home Moms went to work.

No parent home most of the time, no family values.

So, we started expecting our school system to inculcate values, which they were never set up to do in a vacuum of little parental control.

Then, electronic entertainment rushed into the breach -- video games and TV sitcoms where the brightest person was the 12 year old, smart ass kid. If TV shows are famously pitched to the common denominator of the average 12 year old mind, what about first person shooters?

Are most video games not pitched to the average violent 12 year old mind?

This is not a right or left question, though ideologues on both sides would selfishly like you to think so.

The huge question is why does not the right and the left address this issue. Do women maybe want independence come hell or high water? Are economic forces unstoppable? Why, if we are destroying our children, do we continue? What keeps this issue a sideline?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

See when I read that I didn't think about America being polarized, I thought (and I'm not trying to be a smartarse) that the OP had mental problems.

As I said in my OP, we dehumanize the opposition. He can't be sane and think like that, hehe. But maybe he can. What, for example, is wrong with having faith? He does no harm to you because he thinks this way. But yes, I know there are other implications.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
QFMFT!

Ever since life in America required both parents to work it removed family values. The babysitter hardly if ever showed the same kind of care or willingness to teach the children about life than parents themselves. Someone being payed to care only care so much as to keep the children from dying before the parents got home.

When there is a parent with the child throughout their lives, I would bet anything they will be smarter and more adept at making wise decisions.

Yet so many Americans under the age of 50 have grown up in this manner. The damage is already done. The first generation to be neglected are starting to become grandparents themselves.

How do we elevate among this ENTIRE nation the critical importance behind parents raising their children? How do we abolish the rampant abandonment that comes with their parent?s busy lives?

If inflation does not go down, if the wages do not go up, society will not recover. Family values can return, slowly over time, if one parent alone is all that is required to bring home the bacon. We must defeat poverty or face the family values of an improvised third world nation.

If we are going to work toward unity and harmony among men we will have to worry also about those third world nations, their working mothers and their kids, no?

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

See when I read that I didn't think about America being polarized, I thought (and I'm not trying to be a smartarse) that the OP had mental problems.

As I said in my OP, we dehumanize the opposition. He can't be sane and think like that, hehe. But maybe he can. What, for example, is wrong with having faith? He does no harm to you because he thinks this way. But yes, I know there are other implications.

Theres nothing wrong with faith but those ideas I've bolded are not the thoughts of a well balanced mind.
And people who think about utterly destroying or being destroyed are the kind of people who do harm.

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

See when I read that I didn't think about America being polarized, I thought (and I'm not trying to be a smartarse) that the OP had mental problems.

So why even post what you thought?

Obviously you intended to take a stab at the OP.......so why post what you posted??Things that make you go hmmmmm

I'm not 'taking a stab' at the OP, if he really thinks like that the it is quite worrying. He has no middle ground in his thinking.

People who have differing political opinions are, in his mind, in league with Satan and are to be 'utterly destroyed'.

Of course he could just have been drunk

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

See when I read that I didn't think about America being polarized, I thought (and I'm not trying to be a smartarse) that the OP had mental problems.

So why even post what you thought?

Obviously you intended to take a stab at the OP.......so why post what you posted??Things that make you go hmmmmm

I'm not 'taking a stab' at the OP, if he really thinks like that the it is quite worrying. He has no middle ground in his thinking.

People who have differing political opinions are, in his mind, in league with Satan and are to be 'utterly destroyed'.

Of course he could just have been drunk

But if you will look, you are as fixed, it seems to me, in what you are saying about him as he was in his own opinion. Is there a middle ground in your thinking? Can you see, just as a for instance, that he may be very defensive about what he believes and is used and is reacting, ahead of time, to the knowledge that he will be attacked? You responded as is typical, I think, instead of with some intention toward understanding. Just suggesting.....

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

See when I read that I didn't think about America being polarized, I thought (and I'm not trying to be a smartarse) that the OP had mental problems.

As I said in my OP, we dehumanize the opposition. He can't be sane and think like that, hehe. But maybe he can. What, for example, is wrong with having faith? He does no harm to you because he thinks this way. But yes, I know there are other implications.

Theres nothing wrong with faith but those ideas I've bolded are not the thoughts of a well balanced mind.
And people who think about utterly destroying or being destroyed are the kind of people who do harm.

Quite possibly, but what is the best way to react?

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

I have faith which the left lacks . Part of that Faith includes the believe that threw time the left will prepare the way for the Day of Glory . Where my non-existing God according to the left. Will bring his armies to the plains of Armageddon to utterly destroy the left and its leader Satan.

Until this day the Left has nothing to fear from the Right. But make no mistakes about it . In that day we well utterly destroy the left. Or they shall utterly destroy the right . Tho the lefts army will outnumber the Right by a 3to1 margin .

But The left shall fail because their beliefs are based on a universe in chaos. Where as the right believes its an order universe with intellectual designs. It is the left that is in CHAOS!"

See when I read that I didn't think about America being polarized, I thought (and I'm not trying to be a smartarse) that the OP had mental problems.

As I said in my OP, we dehumanize the opposition. He can't be sane and think like that, hehe. But maybe he can. What, for example, is wrong with having faith? He does no harm to you because he thinks this way. But yes, I know there are other implications.

Theres nothing wrong with faith but those ideas I've bolded are not the thoughts of a well balanced mind.
And people who think about utterly destroying or being destroyed are the kind of people who do harm.

Quite possibly, but what is the best way to react?

Well by pointing out that life isnt about finding a great army to battle those with opposing views, its about seeking out those people and learning from them.

You will always learn more from people you disagree with than those you agree with.

But if you will look, you are as fixed, it seems to me, in what you are saying about him as he was in his own opinion. Is there a middle ground in your thinking? Can you see, just as a for instance, that he may be very defensive about what he believes and is used and is reacting, ahead of time, to the knowledge that he will be attacked? You responded as is typical, I think, instead of with some intention toward understanding. Just suggesting.....

Thats called paranoia.