Some states start making the rescued pay

[dmcowen674]

2-18-2013

http://news.yahoo.com/stranded-u-adventurers-rescues-come-cost-141653582.html

For some stranded U.S. adventurers, rescues come at a cost



After an all-terrain vehicle accident in the Utah desert last spring, 53-year-old Mikki Babineau expected a long recuperation for collapsed lungs and 18 broken ribs.


What the Idaho woman didn't expect was a $750 bill from the local Utah sheriff's office for sending a volunteer search and rescue unit to her aid, a service for which the sheriff in that county regularly charges fees.


Oregon, Maine and Babineau's home state of Idaho, have laws authorizing local agencies to bill for rescues when factors such as recklessness, illegal activity or false information led to the predicament.

Dan Lack, chairman of the Rocky Mountain Rescue Association, said the specter of paying for a rescue can instill fear in some of those in need.

He was on hand in August when a climber became wedged between rocks in the Colorado mountains and ordered people who became aware of his plight not to call for help because he didn't want to be charged.

 

[dmcowen674]

Florida must be some sort of recovery state as well because I was charged $500 for damage to the gravel in September.

 

[Xonim]

Honestly, I think it's about time, though in a bit of a different scenario. You look at hurricanes and such, where people are told to evacuate, and they say "I've been here for 30+ years and never had to leave my home, I'm not going." Then an hour later they're on CNN because their house got carried away, and some helicopter or boat rescue is taking place...it's ridiculous if they don't get charged for that. We can call it the stupid tax.

 

[Incorruptible]

Oregon, Maine and Babineau's home state of Idaho, have laws authorizing local agencies to bill for rescues when factors such as recklessness, illegal activity or false information led to the predicament.

If people knowingly take risks then shouldnt they have to pay for the cost? It doesn't seem right that the taxpayer has to pay for their mistakes. By doing this they are subsidizing the risk-taker.

 

[WackyDan]

I think it is reasonable. If you are partaking in a risky hobby then you should accept all risks. EMS/LEO aren't there to provide free help to the stupid that probably don't even pay taxes in their county due to being 4x4/climbing/remote skiing tourists...

 

[her209]

If people knowingly take risks then shouldnt they have to pay for the cost? It doesn't seem right that the taxpayer has to pay for their mistakes. By doing this they are subsidizing the risk-taker.

Like investment banking!

 

[Thump553]

One of the very few threads where I agree with Incorruptible. Rescues can take tremendous public resources and in addition rescuers frequently risk their own lives and limbs. Also in this day of cellphones and self-centered SOBs, many, many places get 911 calls to "rescue" hikers that have stayed out on the trail too late and missed dinner.

I believe New Hampshire also passes these rescue costs on in idiot situations. All states should.

Oh, and Dave if in an accident and damage public property you are always billed for the damage. It's usually an insurance matter-my insurer has paid for a guardrail or two.

 

[monovillage]

Next they'll want police to start charging crime victims.

 

[dmcowen674]

Oh, and Dave if in an accident and damage public property you are always billed for the damage.

It's usually an insurance matter-my insurer has paid for a guardrail or two.

I can see a Guardrail but gravel?

The little bit of scraped gravel would be gone with the next rain.

How would I have the insurance pay for it?

The trooper issued the damage fine in the form of a ticket.

It also resulted in my insurance going up $1,400.

They originally said in a letter it will be going up $1,200 but when I got the next bill it was $200 higher of a jump than the letter.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I can see a Guardrail but gravel?

The little bit of scraped gravel would be gone with the next rain.

How would I have the insurance pay for it?

The trooper issued the damage fine in the form of a ticket.

It also resulted in my insurance going up $1,400.

They originally said in a letter it will be going up $1,200 but when I got the next bill it was $200 higher of a jump than the letter.

Where was the gravel at the end

• On the road
• Off of the shoulder
• Piled up on the shoulder

Any of those three could require a road crew to come and repair the area for safe travel.

As you are aware tickets can be disputed; did you?

Did you even ask why the insurance rates jumped so high?

If you want to play the sympathy factor; you need to back it up.

 

[zsdersw]

"Oh, you'll pay. Don't think you won't pay!"

 

[DrPizza]

I agree particularly for recklessness, gross negligence, etc. But disagree on an across-the-board rule that all rescues result in $$. Nor do I feel the fines should necessarily be the total cost of the rescue in many cases; merely enough to serve as a deterrent to people doing... stupid things. But, not so much that people are willing to push it a little longer, before giving up and requesting help. The longer people wait, in some situations, the more danger it puts rescuers in.

 

[Darwin333]

If people knowingly take risks then shouldnt they have to pay for the cost? It doesn't seem right that the taxpayer has to pay for their mistakes. By doing this they are subsidizing the risk-taker.

Define risk

Frankly you take a risk of getting into an accident every time you drive. Why shouldn't YOU pay for the police to come write the report when some uninsured asshole hits you? The uninsured asshole doesn't need nor want the report, you do. You took the risk and its a service that you require so you should be forced to pay, right?

 

[Doppel]

I can see a Guardrail but gravel?

The little bit of scraped gravel would be gone with the next rain.

How would I have the insurance pay for it?

The trooper issued the damage fine in the form of a ticket.

It also resulted in my insurance going up $1,400.

They originally said in a letter it will be going up $1,200 but when I got the next bill it was $200 higher of a jump than the letter.

Has anybody actually verified this or are you just making it all up again?

 

[Slew Foot]

About time stupid people pay for their stupid actions

 

[OverVolt]

Like investment banking!

lol

 

[DaveSimmons]

In Australia a hiker used an emergency beacon because they didn't want to be late getting back to their car. Drivers there are also using them in place of calling the equivalent of AAA:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/brokendown-drivers-misuse-beacons-20120915-25zcs.html

People who abuse emergency services should pay, a lot.

People with a genuine emergency should pay something if they were being stupid, but I see DrPizza's point of not making them hesitate so long that they die instead. Even if they do win a nice Darwin award for it.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Has anybody actually verified this or are you just making it all up again?

You are questioning his accuracy of a story

 

[nehalem256]

Define risk

Frankly you take a risk of getting into an accident every time you drive. Why shouldn't YOU pay for the police to come write the report when some uninsured asshole hits you? The uninsured asshole doesn't need nor want the report, you do. You took the risk and its a service that you require so you should be forced to pay, right?

So you are coming out on the side of people who drive without insurance to make your point?

There is a pretty clear difference between driving a car to work or the grocery store and driving an ATV around in the desert.

 

[Anarchist420]

The problem here is that the sheriff is a legislated monopoly on rescue services.

 

[waggy]

If people knowingly take risks then shouldnt they have to pay for the cost? It doesn't seem right that the taxpayer has to pay for their mistakes. By doing this they are subsidizing the risk-taker.

agreed

 

[Fern]

Oregon, Maine and Babineau's home state of Idaho, have laws authorizing local agencies to bill for rescues when factors such as recklessness, illegal activity or false information led to the predicament.

I don't have a problem with the above.

I don't think everyone should always have to pay, some time accidents do happen and we pay county/state taxes for such services.

Fern

 

[dmcowen674]

Where was the gravel at the end

• On the road
• Off of the shoulder
• Piled up on the shoulder

Any of those three could require a road crew to come and repair the area for safe travel.

As you are aware tickets can be disputed; did you?

Did you even ask why the insurance rates jumped so high?

If you want to play the sympathy factor; you need to back it up.

Nothing that would require road crew.
This was to the left of the inside lane of traffic.
I'm in Illinois, I wasn't in any position to go back to Florida to dispute the tickets.
Yes, the Insurance got notification of both Florida tickets and ticket in Georgia.

 

[Farang]

As an avid outdoorsman and trained first responder I do not agree with this. First, it is not your average cop or firefighter who has to deal with these types of emergencies. It is a ranger or a SAR volunteer who has made the decision to be responsible for helping people when they get in trouble while enjoying the outdoors. They know what they signed up for.

Second, human factors are usually the most important in emergencies. It's already difficult to get people to call for help when they need it (fear of embarrassment etc.) to add unknown costs created a more dangerous situation in which people will delay calling for help. If I'm stuck in a canyon and my buddy has a broken leg, yea I'm going to be worried how much a helicopter costs to pick him up. Meanwhile he could be bleeding out

Costs for these types of rescues should be distributed up front. For example there is a $50 climbing fee for Mt. Rainier. All climbers pay it and that goes to the SAR fund for the rare helicopter rescue and the rangers' salaries.

Notice the opposition comes from volunteer rescue organizations. People join these because they understand the risks of their sports and want to give back by helping others who may be in need. They do not want people to be charged on their behalf, that defeats the purpose

 

[Jaskalas]

Some states start making the rescued pay

Is this the free market solution?