Some restaurants face pressure to trim menus and staffs under California's wage hike

[woolfe9998]

I don't believe all of that crap from the bls. Of course they will defend their work and their hedonic quality adjustment.
Now we're all buying cheap crap from China, and it's all the same as the fine products we used to get from the U.S. and Europe?
A few years ago energy prices soared, making food and transportation costs skyrocket and yet the official inflation rate remained low.
I still don't believe these lying bastards.

Do you believe the MIT project he also cited?

http://bpp.mit.edu/

Or are they lying bastards as well?

Not to mention any other source who disagrees with you.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't believe all of that crap from the bls. Of course they will defend their work and their hedonic quality adjustment.
Now we're all buying cheap crap from China, and it's all the same as the fine products we used to get from the U.S. and Europe?
A few years ago energy prices soared, making food and transportation costs skyrocket and yet the official inflation rate remained low.
I still don't believe these lying bastards.

Core CPI excludes food and energy costs because they are extremely volatile. If you are trying to get at the underlying trend it's not a good idea to use things that swing wildly from large inflation to large deflation. It seems that you don't realize that BLS ALSO publishes inflation numbers that include food and energy and that most certainly did go up when food and energy prices increased.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CPIAUCSL

So far you claimed the following:

1. ground beef and steak are interchangeable in CPI. This is false.

2. Rent and mortgage payments aren't counted. This is also false.

3. Food and energy aren't counted. This is also false.

Not to mention that ridiculous editorial. You don't seem to have any idea of what CPI is or what it counts, yet you're convinced that BLS is a bunch of 'lying bastards'. You don't even seem to care that their work is verified by independent third parties.

Why do you hold such a strong opinion about something you don't understand?

 

[Fern]

So you ARE an inflation truther! Bwahahahahahaha.

Go ahead, tell me what the 'real' inflation number is and how you came about it. This should be entertaining.



Ahh, so now you're saying '2% is absolute bullshit so long as you only look at these very specific and entirely arbitrary sectors of the economy'. Keeee-rist you people are scary sometimes.

You might go with the 'Fern bullshit index' to calculate inflation but I think I'm going to stick with the 'transparently calculated, international standards aligned index whose results closely track other independent measures'. Your mileage may vary though.

Seriously, if you actually think the government has been working to lower inflation or somehow conspiring to fudge the numbers you REALLY need to get out of the right wing media bubble because that thinking is frankly insane. The government has been expressly attempting to INCREASE inflation in recent years, with little success. Not only is it obviously dumb from the simple idea that you can go check BLS's math whenever you want, it's illogical as it would be contrary to their goals.

Where the hell are you getting all this "if you actually think the government has been working to lower inflation or somehow conspiring to fudge the numbers" crap?

Look at my post again, I'm talking about the 'basket of goods' that the govt uses to calculate their number. It's a one-size-fits-all approach, which usually means it it actually fits no one. Might as well survey average shoe size of all Americans and then provide everyone with size 9 1/2 shoes.

You mentioned 2% inflation in discussing minimum adjustments. That's inappropriate, it's wrong. The govt can have their number but to suggest it's applicable to minimum wage earners is absurd. Their real 'basket of goods' doesn't include new homes or cars etc. Their basket of goods is probably much more akin to mine: food, utilities, entertainment, health care and tuition. That's a helluva lot more than 2%.

My point is that you're taking a number and applying it incorrectly - that is if you actually care about minimum wage workers. That number should not be used for specific cases, it's designed for very broad applications.

2% my azz.

Fern

 

[sandorski]

Times have changed where automation is far more available than it was in the past, not to mention as countless others have said the degree of increase previously wasn't nearly as drastic as it is now (even with it spread out)

Time will tell but seems more folks will shift over to full government assistance as the fall out of the workplace.

I suspect something like the Guaranteed Basic Income will be here soon.

 

[fskimospy]

Where the hell are you getting all this "if you actually think the government has been working to lower inflation or somehow conspiring to fudge the numbers" crap?

Look at my post again, I'm talking about the 'basket of goods' that the govt uses to calculate their number. It's a one-size-fits-all approach, which usually means it it actually fits no one. Might as well survey average shoe size of all Americans and then provide everyone with size 9 1/2 shoes.

You mentioned 2% inflation in discussing minimum adjustments. That's inappropriate, it's wrong. The govt can have their number but to suggest it's applicable to minimum wage earners is absurd. Their real 'basket of goods' doesn't include new homes or cars etc. Their basket of goods is probably much more akin to mine: food, utilities, entertainment, health care and tuition. That's a helluva lot more than 2%.

My point is that you're taking a number and applying it incorrectly - that is if you actually care about minimum wage workers. That number should not be used for specific cases, it's designed for very broad applications.

2% my azz.

Fern

From your post you clearly are just guessing as to the basket of goods and then assuming it doesn't apply to people whose consumption habits you clearly have no knowledge of.

This is deeply stupid.

 

[marincounty]

Core CPI excludes food and energy costs because they are extremely volatile. If you are trying to get at the underlying trend it's not a good idea to use things that swing wildly from large inflation to large deflation. It seems that you don't realize that BLS ALSO publishes inflation numbers that include food and energy and that most certainly did go up when food and energy prices increased.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CPIAUCSL

So far you claimed the following:

1. ground beef and steak are interchangeable in CPI. This is false.

2. Rent and mortgage payments aren't counted. This is also false.

3. Food and energy aren't counted. This is also false.

Not to mention that ridiculous editorial. You don't seem to have any idea of what CPI is or what it counts, yet you're convinced that BLS is a bunch of 'lying bastards'. You don't even seem to care that their work is verified by independent third parties.

Why do you hold such a strong opinion about something you don't understand?

What I understand is that economists are lying bastards and their work is verified by independent lying bastards.

Food and energy are too volatile? Let's just ignore that energy costs skyrocketed.
I think Laffer is an economist. Bush's economists said surpluses as far as the eye can see.

 

[fskimospy]

What I understand is that economists are lying bastards and their work is verified by independent lying bastards.

Food and energy are too volatile? Let's just ignore that energy costs skyrocketed.
I think Laffer is an economist. Bush's economists said surpluses as far as the eye can see.

They don't ignore it as I already told you. I even linked CPI for all items. They literally publicly report the number every month.

 

[Fern]

From your post you clearly are just guessing as to the basket of goods and then assuming it doesn't apply to people whose consumption habits you clearly have no knowledge of.

This is deeply stupid.

"Deeply stupid" is suggesting that minimum wage people are only experiencing 2% inflation.

I don't need to be an expert on the govt basket or any details of their calc to know that.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

"Deeply stupid" is suggesting that minimum wage people are only experiencing 2% inflation.

I don't need to be an expert on the govt basket or any details of their calc to know that.

Fern

So how did you come by this information?

 

[Fern]

So how did you come by this information?

Tracking my own purchases for food, entertainment etc.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

Tracking my own purchases for food, entertainment etc.

Fern

Oh so complete bullshit then. Gotcha.

 

[ivwshane]

Tracking my own purchases for food, entertainment etc.

Fern

Anecdotal evidence, the hallmark of retarded righty thinking.

I'm guessing you are a climate change denier as well, after all, the weather has been colder for you right?

Your fall from grace on this board has been amazing.

 

[Fern]

Oh so complete bullshit then. Gotcha.

How is tracking expenditures in an accounting program "bullshit"?

Fern

 

[werepossum]

He said he would continue consuming High end and Low end, but not the Middle.

The low end is when you don't have opportunity to prepare something; you only want something filling and not disgusting, since the alternative is to not eat. The high end is for occasions, so we'll spend a little more, and as has been pointed out, will probably not see as much an increase anyway since they spend more on location, ambiance, and food itself. The middle is more optional, no particular reason to eat out. I would have much the same reaction to suddenly higher prices. Maybe I go to the pizza place instead of the steakhouse, or maybe I just stay in. But there will still be the times when I pick up something and eat it in the truck, and times we go out just to go out and enjoy a fine meal.

Living Wage. You understand what that is? It has nothing to do with whether someone Deserves, is Qualified, or some other Hiring criteria. It is about having a Wage that a Person can Live on.

Well, I for one certainly look forward to no longer having my food prepared and served by dead people.

You seem like you have some anger issues. I'd focus on correcting that. Posting on the internet doesn't appear to be helping you much.

The U.S. workforce has gone through countless shifts over the years. Industries come and industries go. But what has always kept the U.S. at the top has been the leadership into the change. Except now. The industries of the future do not exist in the U.S. Preparedness towards the future does not exist in the U.S. $15min wage is a temporary band-aid for the working class of the U.S.

I'd be surprised if you were able to present a well-formed argument for why a janitor in California should have a higher quality of life than a software developer in India. Go ahead. Try.

Well said. Basically, the left is trying to make the remaining shit jobs that can't be shipped overseas artificially better by increasing what they pay above market forces. It's a bit silly, but it beats the big nothing offered from the right.

That said, I'll offer one reason why the janitor in California should have a higher quality of life than a software developer in India: He's OUR janitor. That janitor is US; that software developer is THEM, even though he might well be of the exact same racial extraction, religion, etc. We can't really control what someone pays THEM; we can control what someone pays US, because US have control over the laws.

I'm cautiously supportive of minimum wage hikes simply because, while there are undoubtedly going to be negative effects, reasonable rate hikes seem to have been a net positive in the past. As more and more of our good jobs are shipped away, labor is increasingly going to be devalued and wage income more and more stratified. Lacking the collective will to stop the decline, the only thing I see standing between our society devolving into a small wealthy class and a very large poor class is artificially inflating the value of labor, especially unskilled and semiskilled labor. Making a $7/hour job into a $15/hour job by fiat is not a real solution, but it appears to be all we've got.

 

[fskimospy]

How is tracking expenditures in an accounting program "bullshit"?

Fern

Because the experience of one person is not generalizable.

I mean how obvious is that.

 

[Ns1]

The low end is when you don't have opportunity to prepare something; you only want something filling and not disgusting, since the alternative is to not eat. The high end is for occasions, so we'll spend a little more, and as has been pointed out, will probably not see as much an increase anyway since they spend more on location, ambiance, and food itself. The middle is more optional, no particular reason to eat out. I would have much the same reaction to suddenly higher prices. Maybe I go to the pizza place instead of the steakhouse, or maybe I just stay in. But there will still be the times when I pick up something and eat it in the truck, and times we go out just to go out and enjoy a fine meal.

all of this.

Because the experience of one person is not generalizable.

I mean how obvious is that.

and this.

 

[Fern]

Anecdotal evidence, the hallmark of retarded righty thinking.

I'm guessing you are a climate change denier as well, after all, the weather has been colder for you right?

Your fall from grace on this board has been amazing.

It's not anecdotal evidence. Food is a global commodity; prices don't just rise locally (as real estate prices do).

If the price I pay for beef or wine rises, so it goes for the rest of the USA.

As for the other goods I mentioned - are you going to argue that health care and tuition expenses only rose by 2%?

Really?
-----------------

Are you people seriously arguing that 'one size for all' basket of goods, designed to be applied in a very broad way, is suitable for individual cases or classes of people?

Fern

 

[Fern]

Because the experience of one person is not generalizable.

I mean how obvious is that.

It's not the experience of one person. The food prices I see are not specific for me. Everyone pays that price. We all know HC and other expenses rise much much faster than 2%

And I would argue that the experience, not of one person, but of a hypothetical person is worse.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

It's not anecdotal evidence. Food is a global commodity; prices don't just rise locally (as real estate prices do).

If the price I pay for beef or wine rises, so it goes for the rest of the USA.

As for the other goods I mentioned - are you going to argue that health care and tuition expenses only rose by 2%?

Really?
-----------------

Are you people seriously arguing that 'one size for all' basket of goods, designed to be applied in a very broad way, is suitable for individual cases or classes of people?

Fern

You are literally arguing that one size fits all by saying that your experience applies to the US as a whole while complaining about a metric that combines the experience of thousands of people is unacceptable.

Dude, think before you post.

 

[fskimospy]

It's not the experience of one person. The food prices I see are not specific for me. Everyone pays that price. We all know HC and other expenses rise much much faster than 2%

And I would argue that the experience, not of one person, but of a hypothetical person is worse.

Fern

No, you pay that price. You have no idea what other people pay.

See my other post. Your argument is illogical and hypocritical.

 

[Fern]

No, you pay that price. You have no idea what other people pay.

See my other post. Your argument is illogical and hypocritical.

You're crazy. Grocery stores don't haggle. You know damn well food is a global commodity and prices across the country rise similarly per product (unlike real estate values which fluctuate from locality to locality)

I suggest you do your budgeting and financial planning using the govt's 2% number. Boy, you'll learn to really really appreciate that one-size-fits all govt model.

Fern

 

[Ns1]

You're crazy. Grocery stores don't haggle. You know damn well food is a global commodity and prices across the country rise similarly per product (unlike real estate values which fluctuate from locality to locality)

that is true sometimes, not always.

 

[fskimospy]

You're crazy. Grocery stores don't haggle. You know damn well food is a global commodity and prices across the country rise similarly per product (unlike real estate values which fluctuate from locality to locality)

I suggest you do your budgeting and financial planning using the govt's 2% number. Boy, you'll learn to really really appreciate that one-size-fits all govt model.

Fern

Food isn't even included in core CPI, it's part of the all goods CPI, so why would I budget based on core CPI?

You're furiously contradicting yourself, making illogical arguments, then showing you don't even know what the 2% measure is. What happened to you?

 

[werepossum]

maybe, just maybe the CEO's can take a paycut instead of the working stiffs getting stiffed or is that too much to ask to offset the costs?

lol As always, the end game. Who cares how many working stiffs loses their jobs, you need another shot at that fat cat's wallet.

News flash, people at the top are extremely good at hanging onto their wealth.

No, you pay that price. You have no idea what other people pay.

See my other post. Your argument is illogical and hypocritical.

You've now made two of the dumbest statements ever posted, that there is no movement from steak to hamburger as prices increase and that he has no idea what other people pay. People don't magically have more money when prices increase; something has to give, and that something is often quality of product. Virtually everyone who has ever been poor has experienced that, so I can only conclude that either you've never been poor or you've never yet lived on your own.

As for what other people pay, everyone in the same area is going to pay pretty much the same depending on the store. In my area, the exact same product might sell for $1.00 at Walmart, $1.15 at Target, $1.50 at a Food City, and $1.75 at a Whole Foods, but those prices apply to everyone in the area. Prices for one person are indeed extendable to the whole population to a degree, and certainly the movement tends to be the same. That's a very strong correlation. If there's a bad winter in Florida and/or California, orange juice goes up everywhere, even though it might start and end at twice as high in Kansas City as in Florida. If drought causes farmers to sell off beef cattle, then after that glut, beef gets more expensive for everyone, regardless of where one lives.

 

[fskimospy]

lol As always, the end game. Who cares how many working stiffs loses their jobs, you need another shot at that fat cat's wallet.

News flash, people at the top are extremely good at hanging onto their wealth.


You've now made two of the dumbest statements ever posted, that there is no movement from steak to hamburger as prices increase and that he has no idea what other people pay. People don't magically have more money when prices increase; something has to give, and that something is often quality of product. Virtually everyone who has ever been poor has experienced that, so I can only conclude that either you've never been poor or you've never yet lived on your own.

As for what other people pay, everyone in the same area is going to pay pretty much the same depending on the store. In my area, the exact same product might sell for $1.00 at Walmart, $1.15 at Target, $1.50 at a Food City, and $1.75 at a Whole Foods, but those prices apply to everyone in the area. Prices for one person are indeed extendable to the whole population to a degree, and certainly the movement tends to be the same. That's a very strong correlation. If there's a bad winter in Florida and/or California, orange juice goes up everywhere, even though it might start and end at twice as high in Kansas City as in Florida. If drought causes farmers to sell off beef cattle, then after that glut, beef gets more expensive for everyone, regardless of where one lives.

I literally linked the resource from BLS that shows ground beef is not substituted for steak in CPI.

The fact that you're going to call that one of the stupidest things ever posted while it was directly contradicted by the source already provided is absolutely hilarious.

Again, the combination of arrogance and total stupidity is so, so good. You're so dumb yet so convinced of how smart you are.