Some questions from someone "outta the loop"...

aznmist

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2000
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I used to be up to date with the newest computer hardware stuff and deeply into computer modding (ie. overclocking, modding heatsinks...petiers..) but I've been left outta the loop for a while.. would appreciated it if you guys could answer some questions that could help me make wise choices in my next computer purchase...

1) What's next in the intel line that I should be watching for? I know that the P4 is just raw megahertz and that if a P3 could be clocked up to 3 GHZ, it could whoop the P4.. the P4 3.06 GHZ HT doesn't look very appealing...

2)What's next in the AMD line up? I know the Barton 3000+ has been just released... but it's a tad bit expensive... is the Opteron going to good? The 432(?) socket becomming extinct?

3)What's up with Nforce 2 boards? I hear lots of talk about the A7N8X board but I also read that it is no longer "soundstorm"(?) authenticated..
http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=10015&category=main&highlight=A7N8X

4)My old systerm runs on DDR 2100... seems line 2700 is the standard now? big difference?

5)seems like the radeon 9700/9800 is the king now? geforce FX a flop?

6)Could you give me specs of a "top of the line" computer system?

7)Is audigy 2 the best sound card out there? heard a while back that the turtle beach(?) card was better

Thanks a lot!
 

bgeh

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2001
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1)the 3.2GHz 800MHz FSB is the next chip that is coming
2)the next incarnation of the Barton is the 3200+. Wait for the Athlon 64 to appear in September. The opteron is for servers.
3)the Deluxe model has SoundStorm
4)there's not a big difference. PC3200 will be a standard in a few months time.
5)yes, you're right
6)For now, it'll be the 3.06GHz+1GB PC1066 RDRAM+i850+R9800Pro+WD Raptor(SATA 10krpm drive). But the 3.2 and i875(Canterwood) mobo are planned to be released in April 14th, or so i heard
7)imo, the Audigy 2 is the best sound card right now
 

aznmist

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2000
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thanks for the quick reply...some followup questions...

1)what is special about the Athlon 64?
2)what is special about the springdale/canterwood chipset?
 

bgeh

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2001
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1)the Athlon 64 is the same as the Opteron, so i don't think i need to explain. It'll have an intergrated memory controller, hypertransport link and much more
2)Springdale and canterwood will have Native SATA and most of all, support the 800MHz FSB chips
 

aznmist

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2000
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Thanks a lot bgeh... the reason I'm asking these questions is that the next purchase I make will have to last me a long time. I know that computers get outdated pretty quickly but there are certain "milestones" that one has to be aware of.

I made the wise choice to go with a DDR system as I was one of the early adopters. I also waited for DX9 so I can buy a fully complaint DX9 card. I fear that the socket 432 is becomming extinct soon so I do not wish to go with AMD. But the canterwood chipset you mentioned sounds great. I guess you could call 800 FSB and SATA a "milestone" . I still don't like the P4... the new chip.. the hybrid between P4/P3 seems to perform well but that is for notebooks.

I guess to sum up, I want my systerm to have upgradbility, not a dead end.

Thanks a lot for all your help
 

bgeh

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2001
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imo, you should wait for the Athlon 64 to come out first....and then Prescott(possibly Pentium 5) will come in December.......then PCI Express and DDR-II will come ut in June next year....decisions, decisions:confused:
 

aznmist

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2000
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hahah..perhaps.. I rarely play games any more.. just listen to mp3s,work and icq.. doing this on my inspiron 8500 which I've grown to love..
it's outdated now as they have a new chassis and wide screen :(

but just one last question (hopefully)... what's PCI Express?
 

bgeh

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2001
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PCI Express is a new standard designed to replace AGP and PCI slots now, so it's a big change imho.
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: bgeh
1)the Athlon 64 is the same as the Opteron, so i don't think i need to explain. It'll have an intergrated memory controller, hypertransport link and much more
2)Springdale and canterwood will have Native SATA and most of all, support the 800MHz FSB chips

The Athlon64 is not "the same" as the Opteron, for one, they are NOT pin compatable. I will post more details as soon as I search out source references.

Edit One: Here is a link for additional chipsets for the 8000 series of AMD processors. This seems to indicate that PCI-X and/or PCI-Express is not designed to "replace" AGP connectors anytime soon. Linky

Edit Two: Here is a link to an FAQ about Operton and Athlon64 on AMD Zone. Linky

A few excerpts...

Q: What features does x86-64 add to recompiled applications and operating systems?
A: x86-64 adds the following features to recompiled applications and operating systems:

  • 64-bit flat virtual addressing
    8 new general-purpose registers (GPRs)
    8 new registers for streaming SIMD extensions (SSE 2)
    64-bit-wide GPRs and instruction pointer

Q: What socket will Clawhammer and Sledgehammer use?
A: Clawhammer will use a socket with 754 pins while Sledgehammer will need a socket with 940 pins. AMD has not officially named these socket types as they have with the Athlon's Socket A which uses 462 pins.

Q: What will be the sizes of the L1 and L2 cache for Clawhammer and Sledgehammer?
A: AMD has not officially released the cache size information, but many believe at this time that the L1 cache will be 128kb for both CPUs. The L2 cache for the Clawhammer is expected to be 256kb or 512kb at introduction while the Sledgehammer is expected to have 1MB of L2 or possibly 2MB of L2 cache.

Q: Will Hammer use silicon on insulator technology?
A: Yes, all Hammer family CPUs will use silicon on insulator technology jointly developed by AMD, Motorola, and IBM.

Q: What will be the main features of the Hammer die?
A: The main features will be the processor core, the L1 instruction cache, the L1 data cache, the L2 cache, HyperTransport, and the integrated DDR memory controller.

P-X
 

bgeh

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2001
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i know that they're not pin compatible......but what i'm saying is that they're basically the same thing, only that Opteron has a second HT link(i'm not quite sure bout this) and a few other stuff
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,655
4,172
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1) What's next in the intel line that I should be watching for? I know that the P4 is just raw megahertz and that if a P3 could be clocked up to 3 GHZ, it could whoop the P4.. the P4 3.06 GHZ HT doesn't look very appealing...
2)What's next in the AMD line up? I know the Barton 3000+ has been just released... but it's a tad bit expensive... is the Opteron going to good? The 432(?) socket becomming extinct?
3)What's up with Nforce 2 boards? I hear lots of talk about the A7N8X board but I also read that it is no longer "soundstorm"(?) authenticated..
http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=10015&category=main&highlight=A7N8X
4)My old systerm runs on DDR 2100... seems line 2700 is the standard now? big difference?
5)seems like the radeon 9700/9800 is the king now? geforce FX a flop?
6)Could you give me specs of a "top of the line" computer system?
7)Is audigy 2 the best sound card out there? heard a while back that the turtle beach(?) card was better
1) MHz for MHz the P3 would beat the P4 in the early P4 days. But the additional 256 kB cache, move to 533 MHz fsb, wider use of SSE2 optimizations in programs, and HT means that a 3.06 GHz P4 will whoop a 3.06 GHz P3 in the vast majority of applications. Expect to see 800 MHz fsb P4s in the next week or so - even further extending the P4s lead over the P3. Expect to see the 3.2 GHz P4 out soon as well. Finally HT (which has been significantly improved since it was debuted in low MHz Xeon processors) will be moved down the line to cheaper processors (giving an instant 0%-25% speed boost in all programs).
2) AMD will be pretty stagnant for desktop processors for quite some time - don't expect anything drastically new for Barton. Opteron is for servers - and one site leaked pricing starting at $1049 per processor - and that may have been the slow Opteron - so it is not for desktop use. In September the Athlon 64 should be released. For the most part it will have features you won't use (or can't use) and will thus offer no advantages over the Barton - not even speed initially. AMD said the Athlon 64 will carry "a significant price premium" over Barton - so if Barton is too expensive - I'd ignore the Athlon 64 at its launch. However the 2nd generation of Athlon 64 on the 0.09 micron process will be very promising...
3) I don't keep up with that info.
4) PC2100 and PC2700 are still in common use - but are both becoming rapidly obsolete with the faster fsb in newer machines.
5) The Radeon is pretty much considered king. The initial GeForce FX got horrible reviews - based on incorrect assumptions. For example, the pre-production model that was reviewed was quite loud at times - but within a week we saw actual production models that were whisper quiet. But ask anyone about it and all they say is that it is the loudest thing ever made...obviously that conclusion was made premature. Besides all that bad press it still is basically tied with the best Radeon out there speed wise. A few tweaks and driver updates and it should own the speed crown. However this initial GeForce FX model was never meant to be a big success. It is the next step up on the FX line that will likely take the crown back.
6) Within weeks the top of the line computer would be a 3.2 GHz P4 on 800 MHz fsb with PC1200 RDRAM (Intel won't make a chipset for PC1200 but SIS will) running on a WD Raptor hard drive. I'll let you pick your favorite video card since in my mind they are tied. That should blow any other home computer away in most programs.
 

bgeh

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2001
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Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Originally posted by: bgeh
1)the Athlon 64 is the same as the Opteron, so i don't think i need to explain. It'll have an intergrated memory controller, hypertransport link and much more
2)Springdale and canterwood will have Native SATA and most of all, support the 800MHz FSB chips

The Athlon64 is not "the same" as the Opteron, for one, they are NOT pin compatable. I will post more details as soon as I search out source references.

Edit One: Here is a link for additional chipsets for the 8000 series of AMD processors. This seems to indicate that PCI-X and/or PCI-Express is not designed to "replace" AGP connectors anytime soon. Linky

Edit Two: Here is a link to an FAQ about Operton and Athlon64 on AMD Zone. Linky

A few excerpts...

Q: What features does x86-64 add to recompiled applications and operating systems?
A: x86-64 adds the following features to recompiled applications and operating systems:

  • 64-bit flat virtual addressing
    8 new general-purpose registers (GPRs)
    8 new registers for streaming SIMD extensions (SSE 2)
    64-bit-wide GPRs and instruction pointer

Q: What socket will Clawhammer and Sledgehammer use?
A: Clawhammer will use a socket with 754 pins while Sledgehammer will need a socket with 940 pins. AMD has not officially named these socket types as they have with the Athlon's Socket A which uses 462 pins.

Q: What will be the sizes of the L1 and L2 cache for Clawhammer and Sledgehammer?
A: AMD has not officially released the cache size information, but many believe at this time that the L1 cache will be 128kb for both CPUs. The L2 cache for the Clawhammer is expected to be 256kb or 512kb at introduction while the Sledgehammer is expected to have 1MB of L2 or possibly 2MB of L2 cache.

Q: Will Hammer use silicon on insulator technology?
A: Yes, all Hammer family CPUs will use silicon on insulator technology jointly developed by AMD, Motorola, and IBM.

Q: What will be the main features of the Hammer die?
A: The main features will be the processor core, the L1 instruction cache, the L1 data cache, the L2 cache, HyperTransport, and the integrated DDR memory controller.

P-X

i thought the Athlon 64 will have 1mb and 256kb versions(codenames Clawhammer-1mb l2 cache, Paris-256kb l2 cache)
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I saw a review stating this sound card is better than Audigy 2.

M-Audio's new Envy24HT-powered Revolution 7.1.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
You could go crazy and buy the new MINI-ITX motherboards from Via. If you don't play games, you could make a really small computer. The next version is suppose to come with Dual Ethernet and the 24 bit sound chips. There will also be one with on the motherboard flash and PCMCIA Laptop/Notebook plug-in Devices.
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
2,188
99
91
Originally posted by: bgeh
Originally posted by: PrinceXizor
Originally posted by: bgeh
1)the Athlon 64 is the same as the Opteron, so i don't think i need to explain. It'll have an intergrated memory controller, hypertransport link and much more
2)Springdale and canterwood will have Native SATA and most of all, support the 800MHz FSB chips

The Athlon64 is not "the same" as the Opteron, for one, they are NOT pin compatable. I will post more details as soon as I search out source references.

Edit One: Here is a link for additional chipsets for the 8000 series of AMD processors. This seems to indicate that PCI-X and/or PCI-Express is not designed to "replace" AGP connectors anytime soon. Linky

Edit Two: Here is a link to an FAQ about Operton and Athlon64 on AMD Zone. Linky

A few excerpts...

Q: What features does x86-64 add to recompiled applications and operating systems?
A: x86-64 adds the following features to recompiled applications and operating systems:

  • 64-bit flat virtual addressing
    8 new general-purpose registers (GPRs)
    8 new registers for streaming SIMD extensions (SSE 2)
    64-bit-wide GPRs and instruction pointer

Q: What socket will Clawhammer and Sledgehammer use?
A: Clawhammer will use a socket with 754 pins while Sledgehammer will need a socket with 940 pins. AMD has not officially named these socket types as they have with the Athlon's Socket A which uses 462 pins.

Q: What will be the sizes of the L1 and L2 cache for Clawhammer and Sledgehammer?
A: AMD has not officially released the cache size information, but many believe at this time that the L1 cache will be 128kb for both CPUs. The L2 cache for the Clawhammer is expected to be 256kb or 512kb at introduction while the Sledgehammer is expected to have 1MB of L2 or possibly 2MB of L2 cache.

Q: Will Hammer use silicon on insulator technology?
A: Yes, all Hammer family CPUs will use silicon on insulator technology jointly developed by AMD, Motorola, and IBM.

Q: What will be the main features of the Hammer die?
A: The main features will be the processor core, the L1 instruction cache, the L1 data cache, the L2 cache, HyperTransport, and the integrated DDR memory controller.

P-X

i thought the Athlon 64 will have 1mb and 256kb versions(codenames Clawhammer-1mb l2 cache, Paris-256kb l2 cache)

"AMD has not officially released the cache size information"....so It's all speculation until Opteron is released (soon) and Athlon 64 is released in Q3 (September)

P-X