Some questions about jobs in the networking field...

[ibex333]

With my Bachelor's degree nearing completion (finishing next summer), I feel very confused and somewhat depressed thinking about my future. I just don't see any purpose, any direction.

I learned a bunch of different things over the years I been in college, but I don't feel like there was any focus to it all. I learned some basics of Cisco routers, how networks work and how data is transferred. I learned some digital electronics(most of which I already forgot). I took a database course where I learned some basics of Access 2007. (forgot most of it already off course) And now I am taking an advanced LAN course, where we are learning about deploying active directory and network services. In fact, I feel like a lot more accent was given on courses dealing with servers and data communications basics then on Cisco.

Now, our LAN class professor keep telling us how we should all study hard and pass the 70-640 exam, but I don't see how that would have anything to do with me getting a job as a Network Engineer or maybe even a consultant in the field.

And yet, at this point it feels like I would have a lot of a greater chance to pass the 70-640 than CCNA. I feel like I know virtually nothing about the stuff that is in CCNA exam.

I really don't want to be one of those lowly technicians for the rest of my life getting paid $12/ho after taxes. I am thinking of hitting the books hard and study for CCNA, but I just do not have time right now in between my classes and work. And let me tell you that classes dealing with servers are NOT EASY. (If you didn't know that already)

So basically my concern here is that I feel like when I graduate, I will be an uneducated idiot, running around trying to get my resume through the door just to get it tossed out as soon as I leave.

In fact, I am not even sure that I understand what the hell a Network engineer is. What are his duties and responsibilities? Does he drive around setting up networks for companies? Does he sit in one place and people come to him and ask questions about how to best deploy networks/servers? What is the typical work day like for a network engineer? Does he work a 48 hour week like a slave, coming home late at night just to wake up the next morning at 6am? Can he afford a nice vacation at least once per year with his family?

My friend, who never really worked an actual job a day in his life got a 60k/year job programming with Java. And he only spent about two years sitting home reading books. I understand it's kind of stupid of me to bring up such comparisons, but stuff like this puts all my efforts to shame. I am definitely not looking to become a programmer though, because I am horrible in math and I barely passed a Visual Basic class with a C+.

I was always pretty good with hardware, so some people told me I should pursue a Data Communications concentration in college. I sort of stuck with it up till now doing the best I can, and I did ok. But again, like I already have said, I don't see a bright and happy future for myself at this point, and that makes me very much afraid, to say the least.

I hope someone who works in the networking field can address my concerns and tell me what I should be studying SPECIFICALLY to realistically have a chance of getting a 60-70k job in the networking field.

 

[Neutralman]

Reading this made me feel depressed. My friend is in the exact same position as you, feeling all the same things before he graduated. Difference is he has a degree in computer science. After graduating with a bachelors, 2 years later, hes working $12 an hour tech job and feeling miserable every day. Doesn't help that he also lives in the middle of nowhere and can't afford to move anywhere for more opportunities with the student loan payments etc....

Hope someone here can offer you some good advice.

 

[theevilsharpie]

In fact, I am not even sure that I understand what the hell a Network engineer is. What are his duties and responsibilities? Does he drive around setting up networks for companies? Does he sit in one place and people come to him and ask questions about how to best deploy networks/servers? What is the typical work day like for a network engineer? Does he work a 48 hour week like a slave, coming home late at night just to wake up the next morning at 6am? Can he afford a nice vacation at least once per year with his family?

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos305.htm

Network architects or network engineers are the designers of computer networks. They set up, test, and evaluate systems such as local area networks (LANs), wide area networks (WANs), the Internet, intranets, and other data communications systems. Systems are configured in many ways and can range from a connection between two offices in the same building to globally distributed networks, voice mail, and e-mail systems of a multinational organization. Network architects and engineers perform network modeling, analysis, and planning, which often require both hardware and software solutions. For example, setting up a network may involve the installation of several pieces of hardware, such as routers and hubs, wireless adaptors, and cables, as well as the installation and configuration of software, such as network drivers. These workers may also research related products and make necessary hardware and software recommendations, as well as address information security issues.​

That's the basic gist. Network engineering is not regulated by the government or a professional body like more mature engineering fields, so the actual duties (and job titles) will tend to vary between organizations.

That being said, if you're hoping for a network engineering position straight out of school with no experience, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

I hope someone who works in the networking field can address my concerns and tell me what I should be studying SPECIFICALLY to realistically have a chance of getting a 60-70k job in the networking field.

Go onto dice.com, monster.com, or careers page of a company you can see yourself potentially working for. Find a position with a job title, responsibilities, and salary matching what you're looking for. Now look at the job requirements.

Whatever you find, study that.

 

[seepy83]

To be honest, even with a bachelors degree (in what? you never said) and certifications, you're going to be very hard pressed to find anyone that will hire you as a network engineer or admin with a $60-70k salary without any experience. You're expecting way too much for someone who doesn't even have a clear understanding of what those types of jobs entail.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but my suggestion would be for you to pursue a helpdesk or desktop support position to get experience and get your foot in the door somewhere. If you think you can pass the CCNA or any of the microsoft server certifications, then take them. If you can't pass them, keep studying and working towards getting certified. Hopefully whatever entry-level IT position you can get hired for includes some tuition reimbursement or continuing education benefit so that your employer will help you pay for any ongoing classes you want to take.

 

[drebo]

There are two things that matter in the IT field as far as getting a job: who you know and your experience...in that order.

Green people straight out of college almost never know anything, unless you're coming from a proper CS program and going in to programming. For what you're looking at? No college in the country teaches it, and the ones that try usually don't do a good job.

Unfortunately, you've picked a very, very crowded field to go in to. There aren't many jobs available, and the ones that are don't pay extremely well. Your entry-level jobs at a consulting company are likely to be in the $15/hr range. If you're lucky enough to get in a corporate gig, you're probably set, though you won't start above $40k/yr usually.

"IT" is a huge field, though, and you need to decide what it is you want to do. If you want to do windows server networking, then study that. If you want to do real networking, then study Cisco. If you want to consult, study everything.

$60k+/yr jobs aren't unheard of...you're just not going to get one with no experience straight out of college.

 

[Emulex]

not when a 50 year old guy who can't get a job but has 20 years experience will take any pay rate to pay for his kid's college..

 

[xSauronx]

not when a 50 year old guy who can't get a job but has 20 years experience will take any pay rate to pay for his kid's college..

this. im in a position similar to the op. a year or so left on my BS, but varied experience and internships the whole time ive been in school. im just having a hard time finding opportunity to really study something specific while keeping up with homework/work/other

 

[ScottMac]

There's always the military. It's a great place to gain practical skills and build experience.
Many places give preference to vets.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Threads like these always make me glad I snagged my network administration job with a 2 year associates.

OP, get your CCNA ... it will help you if you really want ot hit networking.

 

[xSauronx]

Threads like these always make me glad I snagged my network administration job with a 2 year associates.

more and more places seem to want the BS now, minimum. i have some decent experience, 2 tech associates, working on a BS, and have had IT internships the whole time ive been in school, and im having a hard time getting interviews. theres not that much available in my area, either, which doesnt help :-/

 

[Specop 007]

Ah, one of those kids who fell for the "Get you degree and make 85k a year!" ads. I'm sorry. I think most of the guy sin the field at some point were slingin shit for 14/hr on an internship. After that you land your entry level job along with all the other people ranging from the someday exec's to the going to fail and end up back at the parents. Most of them will start between 25-40k/ year depending where they are and what they land.

From there you bust ass and hope the name you make for yourself is the name no one remembers.....You are only as good as your last outage. After you spend a few years in the lower ranks and establish a track record and prove your one of those who will not sink then you can start getting serious about breaking the 50k-60k barrier.

What I wouldnt do is think college is going to teach me everything I need to know to do the job I want. College is about exposing you to a broad set of subjects, not making you a specialized wonder boy. That comes from your own ambitions and on the job experience.

Lastly for the love of God dont take the corner case success stories and try to apply that as the norm. Ok so a friend of yours read books for 2 years and landed a job at 60k a year. That makes him a unique case more than the norm. Theres also a huge difference in what a particular job title will pay. "Network Admin" for a small shop of 20 people may pay well under what "Network Admin" for an Enterprise position or Carrier position will pay.

My thoughts on the matter.

 

[pwnagesarus]

I think my situation is less common.

I did remote help desk for a short time in college and in the last year of college, landed a summer internship making the equivalent of ~40k/yr. I was allowed to stay on during the year and when upon graduation, got hired on in the same dept at >60k.

In networking, there are many different job titles e.g. network technician, administrator, engineer, designer or architect. However, the responsibilities can also be just as varied. In some cases, the job title doesn't mean a thing. Depending on how high you are up on the totem pole, some responsibilities can include (note, these are just examples and based from my limited experience):

-Designing a network(s) from the ground up and figuring out what technologies will be in use
-Determining what equipment will be in use, what version of software, what parameters to use, etc, for a site or the company
-Being top level escalation (the guy they call when nobody else can figure it out)
-Putting together configurations for particular devices
-Installing the equipment on-site
-Working break/fix issues (my network jack isn't working)
-Running cable

If you work in a smaller outfit, you may have more and varied responsibilities and develop a broad range of skills (mile wide/inch deep). In a larger organization however, your responsibilities may be less and will focus on fewer parts of the network due to the volume of work (inch wide/mile deep).

It seems that there are lots of networking jobs out there, especially with contract companies, but the demand is for quality people.

 

[ibex333]

I looked at dice.com requirements for networking jobs and that made me feel even worse, because those who are hiring list VERY varied requirements. This means that if I study to get hired by any one of them, I wont fit under the requirements of just about everyone else. I dont understand why is it like that...

When there are no clear requirements for a job it's very hard to train for such a job.

It seems like it would be a good idea to abandon that whole networks thing right now and focus on Server 2008, Active Directory, FreeBSD/Linux/Unix and maybe some MySQL. At least here, the requirements are narrowed down somewhat, and the employers tell you exactly what the hell they want from you. I know virtually nothing about databases, but then again, I know virtually nothing about networks after 4 years in college. Looks like it will be a good idea for me to pass the 70-640 exam like my prof is telling me to.

Some people asked me what is my major... I am two semesters away from a BS in Business Management and Administration with a concentration in Data Communications. My college doesn't have a degree in CS, nor would I ever want to pursue one because of the massive amount of mathematics and programming courses.

 

[lowrider69]

Many places are looking for a BS as mentioned above, even for low level desktop support gigs paying $14 an hour. What is interesting is how overall pay rates have fallen but places want more experience and degrees. I see many places put ads up and they want a person that knows everything and you scroll down and it says $14 per hour, 6 month contract. More and more companies don't do direct hire anymore and don't want to pay benefits so they hand off the hiring process to recruiters(staffing agencies) who offer 6 month contracts. And if the contracts are longer than 6 months they will only do a 1099 so they can classify you as a independent contractor and they don't have to deal with unemployment insurance among other things.

Obviously this isn't the case with all places, but more and more places are going the contract route.

 

[somethingsketchy]

Personally, your best bet, would be to study as much as you can about networking (regardless if it's Cisco certs or not) and try and sell yourself on the job market. Once you've built up enough contacts (a la LinkedIn) then you can branch out and do consulting work. It may not be long term employment, but it can pay nicely, if you land the right gig.

That and then there is the Feds. I worked in state government and it was probably one of the more secure jobs I had (before the economy hit a wall). You want to work as a network engineer/admin? You'll have to start at the bottom like everyone else. Most place tend to promote from within, so you'll have little chance. I found this out the hard way and thought Database Admin jobs were a dime a dozen *wrong*.

 

[dawks]

Experience is key. Even with a degree, you will probably need to take a few low paying jobs to build experience. The thing with IT is that its so finicky. You just can't learn all you need to know in school. A certification will only verify you have some base knowledge of a subject, but you really need to dig down and actually play with stuff to learn beyond it. Thats where experience comes in.

That being said, I've been watching IT job postings closely for the last few years, and the trend I see is Linux, Linux, Linux, Networking, Networking, Networking (Cisco Certs). Other big things are auditing and Gov. Regulations Compliance (cobit, sox, blah blah). If you want to increase your chances of employment, try and land any IT related job you can (even computer repair), and spend your free time focusing on learning Linux and Networking.

I have 6 years as a Windows network admin (with MCSE) and I'm struggling to find a better job (only $45,000 right now, and thats thanks to my Bachelors). So I'm spending my free time reading up on VMware Virtualization, Cisco Networking (CCNA), Linux, and watching some CompSci lectures from Stanford and iTunes U.

 

[Specop 007]

If i were to go for a cert I'd honestly probably go Juniper. You wont get everyone looking at you all googly eyed when you say "Cisco" but I suspect a lot of shops run Juniper and would look at that as something that really made you stand out.

 

[lowrider69]

That being said, I've been watching IT job postings closely for the last few years, and the trend I see is Linux, Linux, Linux, Networking, Networking, Networking (Cisco Certs). Other big things are auditing and Gov. Regulations Compliance (cobit, sox, blah blah). If you want to increase your chances of employment, try and land any IT related job you can (even computer repair), and spend your free time focusing on learning Linux and Networking.

I agree, I have been working more with Linux and networking myself. I do my own thing and I try to teach myself as much as I can so I can expand my knowledge and services.

 

[aylafan]

I went through the same phase as you. I graduated from college with a Bachelor's Degree in Finance (Cum Laude) and took some CCNA courses, but I had a hard time finding a job. I went through 6-9 months of job hunting and one day I got a call from an IT company. They made me go through a staffing agency that paid close to minimum wage for 6-7 months. Then after that I got hired full-time and they bumped up my pay to $15 per hour (not including tax deductions). I work Monday-Friday for 40 hours a week, basically, 8AM-5PM. If you think about it. It's around $32,500 a year without tax deductions. That's a paycheck of $1200 every 2 weeks with $200 in deductions from (taxes, social security, 401K, medical, vision expenses, etc.) So, I end up making around $1000 every 2 weeks. To me, it's not so bad since the economy is bad right now and lots of people are jobless. At least, I know I can still pay my bills. I still have friends who have more degrees than me (like a masters with a concentration) who still can't find a job. So, expecting 60-70K a year right now is "most likely" not going to happen for a college graduate with zero/no experience. Go to as many interviews you can and try to land an entry-level job like Help Desk / Telecom / Data Entry / Technician that pays you enough. Gain the experience and then try to move up from there. Good luck.

 

[kornphlake]

Some people asked me what is my major... I am two semesters away from a BS in Business Management and Administration with a concentration in Data Communications. My college doesn't have a degree in CS, nor would I ever want to pursue one because of the massive amount of mathematics and programming courses.

I'd focus on finding jobs related to business management and administration rather than IT, or change your major to something you might enjoy more. I've heard there are a lot of jobs in human resources right now, with a degree in business management and administration I'd think you are more or less qualified for an entry level job in human resources. I've seen a lot of project management type positions as well, a background in data communications might be useful if the projects are related to data communications.

With entry level jobs it's not so much about your experience or what you majored in, it's your attitude that will get you hired. If you've got a bachelors degree that's the bare minimum that will get you in the door, rather you studied a related field or not is irrelevant for a lot of administrative positions. Saying things like, "the math classes were too hard so I avoided a major that was interesting to me" probably won't get you a job anywhere regardless of the job description.

 

[seepy83]

or change your major to something you might enjoy more.

No one that's 2 semesters away from a Bachelors degree should be changing majors. That's one of the reasons why it takes some people 6 years to finish their undergrad and they end up spend (or loaning) 50% more than they should.

 

[sactwnguy]

If you want to go into network engineering the type of degree you have does not matter because they generally don't teach anything that is useful in the real world. When I interview people I generally dont even care if they have a degree, I look at what skills and experience the person has for the level of position I am trying to fill and if they can hit the ground running with minimal guidance from me.

Your best chance of landing an entry level job is in larger cities that have a lot of resellers and corporate headquarters. Don't plan on making $60k starting out because it is just not realistic. Starting out stick with Cisco certs just because they own so much of the market, Juniper is growing and has great products but the amount of shops that use them are just a fraction of Cisco and tend to be more on backbone networks which no one is going to let you even come close to working on. Once you get that first job don't limit it yourself though, once you have the fundamentals of routing and switching down it should be easy to translate those skills to other vendor products.

 

[kornphlake]

No one that's 2 semesters away from a Bachelors degree should be changing majors. That's one of the reasons why it takes some people 6 years to finish their undergrad and they end up spend (or loaning) 50% more than they should.

What percentage of college grads work in a field relevant to their education? Last time I checked it was less than 50%. I agree that changing a major with less than a year left is a bad idea, but working in a field outside of the subject you studied seems like an equally poor choice. I assume that the OP is at an age where another year or two of school won't be as disruptive to his life as trying to do the same thing once he's got a family and a mortgage payment.

 

[Despoiler]

Myself I went to a tech college for the Network Specialist program. It is basically just a Cisco LAN tech academy that preps you more or less for the CCNA. Guess what I do now? I work for a phone company provisioning carrier voice switches (EWSD, 5ESS, DMS100 & DMS 10, DCO, Redcom, etc) , about a dozen different DSLAMs, WiMax, anything and every thing fiber, carrier grade VOIP gateways, carrier Cisco and Alcatel routers, any and all customer premise equipment, IPTV, and I also work on automated provisioning systems.

You know how I got the job? I worked in the phone company's repair call center for 4.5 years while going to school. The reason I moved up wasn't because I went to school at all. It was mostly because while I was at my job I took the initiative to know a hell of a lot more than my job required and I got to know everyone in the company that knew more than me. You have to be known to be considered or you need experience. Both are preferable.

I guess my point is not to get too hung up on concentrations, because once you are technical you tend to wear a lot of hats anyways. I expected to be an IT monkey and I ended up in a much more interesting position. Do what interests you and things will fall into place.

 

[wizdum]

I have been working in computer repair / internet companies since 2004. Minimum wage, or close to it the whole time. Just this last February, I landed the NETWORK ENGINEER position at my internet company. So yeah, 7+ years of experience, and I can absolutely dominate any kid coming out of 'networking school.' If you have a passion for it, like I do, you don't have to spend thousands of dollars to convince yourself to learn something. I read it, every day, because I like it. I like it like playing video games or eating candy, and that's why I kick ass at my job and got it in the first place. (over other co-workers with CS/EE degrees)