Some Question Before Buying A New PC

DisinfectedDuck

Senior member
Jul 17, 2001
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Hi, i'm buying a PC for my little brother and I have some questions. These are the parts I have already decided on -

CPU - Pentium 4 2.2 Ghz
RAM - Micron 256 MB 266PC

That's all :D.

My questions:

1. HDD - Generally speaking, should I choose Maxtor or IBM? I think i'll get 80GB. Which one's more reliable?
2. What is a good motherboard to go with the Pentium 4 2.2 CPU?
3. I'm having a hard time deciding on a video card. My options:

a. GAINWARD 128MB Geforce 3 Ti200 for 819 New Shekels (I live in Israel).
b. Leadtek 128MB Geforce 3 Ti200 for 920 New Shekels.
c. MSI 128MB Geforce 4 4200 for 1154 New Shekels.

Is there a real difference between a 128MB GF3 and a 128MB GF4, or is it not worth it to spend extra 300 Shekels for a GF4??

4. Do I need a 350W PSU or a 430W PSU?
5. Also, have you ever heard of a company named HEC that manuafacters PSUs? Are they any good?

Sorry if i'm asking too many questions, but I know the good people of this forum will help me out. I bought my current PC with the aid of this forum (Logistical aid, not financial aid - the people here are not that good) and I trust the people of this forum 100 percents.

Thanks!
 

MrCodeDude

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
13,674
1
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1 American Dollar = How many shekels?

For the extra 200 - 300 shekels (depending on how much money that is), the GF4 Ti4200 is a much better deal. Of course, there is a thread in Hot Deals where you can get a Ti4400 for a $10 more than the standard Ti4200. Not sure if you can get that shipped to the Middle East though. Whatever you do, please do not get a GeForce4 MX. I don't even know why they are called GF4's when they don't have any of it's capabilities.

You only want to use 50% of your power supply, 75% at most. So, 350W would be right on the dot, 430W would give you some room to expand without having to buy a bigger powersupply..

I've heard of HEC, I think, but I don't own one of their PSU's so my information would come second hand. Your best bet would be to go with a reputable company that would allow you to return the powersupply if it blows up in a month or so, or to go with a good powersupply such as one from Enermax, Antec or Sparkle.
-- mrcodedude
 

fumbduck

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2001
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Harddrive:
If you are going to get an 80gig harddrive, i would get the western digital 8mb cache 80gig harddrive, its probably the best and fastest 80gigger right now, the model number is WD800JB i think, or WD80JB, but its a JB, check it out.


Video:
well depending on what you what to do is all in what you buy.

I have read good things about the gainward gf3 ti200 that is actually overclocked to ti450, it competes with the other leading gf3's, plus it has 128mb.
It will pretty much give you the best that you can have for any game out there right now.

I had a leadtek gf2 ultra and it was a great card, so leadtek is a good brand, but i think gainward has a little better package and card for the gf3's.

currently i have a gf4 ti4400 and i love it, as that guy was saying you can get a ti4400 for only 10 bucks more than a ti4200, but it depends on what you do, if all you do is play counterstrike or everquest or whatever, there is no need for that power, i develop and render lots of digital art as well as play morrowind, neverwinter nights and syberia, all high level games. But a GF3 would be just as good for those games.

If you really want to dig in, the radeon 8500 is cheaper than all the GF3's and it outclasses them, http://gamershq.madonion.com has it i think, they have the list of video cards in performance order.

I have a p4 1.6a overclocked to 2.4 512rdram and a ti4400 and 350watts was plenty enough for me, so i think it would be for you too, i have heard of HEC, im not sure about there power supplies, but i havent heard anything bad about them
 

MrCodeDude

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
13,674
1
76
Yeah, about the Hard-Drives. Stay away from IBM and any other company you should have no problems with. My personal favorite are Seagate though.

For the machine you are building now, 350W is enough. But if you are going to upgrade next year, the PSU won't be powerful enough to support next years devices. :) Buy the 430W one and you won't have to worry for a while.

I'm not an Intel guy so I wouldn't know about what mobo's to get. I've seen people achieve great OC speeds on Abit and ASUS boards though. Epox, Gigabyte and MSI also put out some decent boards. Just check the reviews.

Follow up on my video card reply. I don't know what you can get in the Middle East, but if you can get high demanding games that ask for top of the line video cards (my MSI GF3 Ti200 runs GTA3 at 60FPS+ so I don't know :)) but yeah, go out and get the MSI GF4 Ti4200. I own a Leadtek and MSI video cards and while the Leadtek overclocked a little higher (both are GF3 Ti200's) I got higher benchmarks out of the MSI card even after OCing both.
-- mrcodedude
 

Zugzwang152

Lifer
Oct 30, 2001
12,134
1
0
Get DDR, it's more expensive but worth it, I should know, I still use SDRAM. You never told us what the conversion rate between US Dollars and Shekels is...it would help us out a lot pricing-wise.
 

DisinfectedDuck

Senior member
Jul 17, 2001
220
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1 US Dollar = 4.7 Israeli New Shekels.

I know stuff is very expensive here compared to the US, but it's not very relevant though, as I can't order stuff from the US.
 

AnAndAustin

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,112
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;) All very good advice.

:D Mobo wise get a mobo which is Skt478 and can handle the 533FSB for future upgrades (or o/c ;)). All DDR Skt478 mobos seem VERY good so look out for the price and features you want, USB2 is very useful while ATA133 and AGP8x aren't much better at all than ATA100 and AGP4x.

:) DDR is way better than SDram (SDR), don't even put that anywhere near a P4, you might as well give it 32MB RAM for the perf hit you'd get. DDR is better than RIMM-RAMBUS too, so don't go down that dark (and expensive) alley. 256MB is fine, 512MB is very nice. DDR333 (PC2700) is a much better buy for P4, unless you run a 533FSB (more about that later).

;) I would suggest you get a P4A 512k 400FSB 1.8ghz CPU, in short you can set the FSB to 533FSB and get a CPU increase to 2.4ghz giving IDENTICAL speed to a true P4B 512k 533FSB 2.4ghz and this is with a simple change in the BIOS and no need for voltage tweaks or extra cooling, very easy and very stable.

:( HD-wise avoid IBM, Maxtor are very good esp for the money while WD 8MB seem to be the perf champion, I'd just buy the cheapest non-IBM HD if I were you.

:D Video card, you REALLY want the 4200-128MB, Rad8500 cards are better than GF3, but only slightly and outside US & Canada they carry a hefty price tag too! Unless gaming is of small priority, definitely get a 4200, you'd be MUCH better off with a 1.8ghz+4200 than a 2.53ghz+GF3TI200

:) PSU-wise, I would get a 350W if it is an Antec, Enermax, ToPower or Flower, Sparkle should be fine too. If it isn't one of these I would get a 400W minimum. Dual fan versions are very nice and usually cost very little exctra.
 

DisinfectedDuck

Senior member
Jul 17, 2001
220
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AnAndAustin - Is overclocking the FSB like that really safe?? I've never tried it.. should I get a new fan?

BTW you really helped me out there thnx, any other ideas? :D
 

CrazySaint

Platinum Member
May 3, 2002
2,441
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Originally posted by: DisinfectedDuck
AnAndAustin - Is overclocking the FSB like that really safe?? I've never tried it.. should I get a new fan?

BTW you really helped me out there thnx, any other ideas? :D

Yes, overclocking the FSB is perfectly save as long as you take it slow and be careful. The stock HS/F should be plenty. If I were you, I would get a 1.6A oR 1.8A and an EPoX 4G4A(I|+) (The 4G4A has three models, the 4G4A, the 4G4AI which is same as 4G4A but adds onboard NIC, and 4G4A+ which is same as 4G4AI but adds RAID) or Abit BG7 mobo and OC it to around 2.4GHz (2.4 is fairly common, though you should get at least 2.1-2.2GHz) and since it has such a higher FSB speed, a 1.6A or 1.8A OC'd to 2.4GHz will actually out perform a retail 2.4B. If you decide to go this route, you will definitely need at least PC2700 RAM. I would recommend Corsair XMS RAM if you can afford it. Otherwise, Mushkin and Winbond make good RAM. Samsung PC2700 is also very good, but only if its Samsung chips on Samsung PCB and the model # ends in "CTL" isntead of "DTL".
 

AnAndAustin

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
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:eek: Pushing the P4A 1.6ghz to 2.4ghz IS pushing things a little bit, you'd be needing that 150x4=600FSB speed which will almost certainly need very good cooling and voltage adjustment, 2.1ghz and 533FSB is again VERY safe and easy though and still a very nice perf gain, faster BTW than the P4 2.2ghz 400FSB! The P4A 1.8ghz is a much easier and safer bet to 2.4ghz at exactly a 133x4=533FSB and again should require no extra cooling or voltage tweaks, so all you'd have to do is raise the FSB to 133x4=533.

;) PC2700 (DDR333) isn't necessary IF you only use the 533FSB, PC2100 CL2.0 (DDR266) it works very well probably due to the lovely 1:2 ratio and low latency issues. If you go below or above 533FSB then PC2700 is a much better RAM, and shouldn't be much more expensive than PC2100 CL2.0.

:D So o/c'ing the FSB is VERY easy and like all o/c'ing if done carefully and without taking it to extremes it comes at VERY little risk to any hw. Esp the P4A 512k 400FSB CPUs which are intentionally and needlessly crippled with a 400FSB when all 512k P4 CPUs are easily capable of 533FSB operation (but Intel want to flog their top CPUs for top $), esp with new technoloogy like a 0.13mu core the bottom chips run VERY cool and are therefore very capable at running at higher speeds. Other good examples of intentionally crippled hw (to promote sales of the faster parts yet again) are GF3TI200, Rad8500LE and GF4TI4200. GF3TI200 reach VERY near (within 10%) of GF3TI500 speeds, which for a long time was DOUBLE the price! Rad8500LE easily reached full Rad8500 speeds and the GF4TI4200 easily reach GF4TI4400 or even GF4TI4600 speeds! This isn't so much about pushing hw overly fast but of manu's underclocking hw to make their top stuff sell better at higher prices. NO o/c is ever 100% guaranteed and you have to remember that any gain you do get is a free one, if you go very near the limits or increase voltage then you are decreasing the life of the product, but by taking small steps upwards and testing thoroughly for stability you simply find the limit and then back off a few steps, very easy and almost completely risk free!
 

AnAndAustin

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,112
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;) Not that you would anyway, but you can actually afford to waste 2 slower CPUs and still be under the price of the faster CPU, take a look (www.pricewatch.com):

P4A 400FSB 1.6ghz $120 (should easily hit 2.1ghz and at a push 2.4ghz)
P4A 400FSB 1.8ghz $150 (should easily hit 2.4ghz and at a push 2.7ghz)
P4B 533FSB 2.4ghz $345 (should hit 2.7ghz at a push)
P4B 533FSB 2.53ghz $585 (should hit 2.85ghz at a push)

:eek: The two 533FSB CPUs won't o/c very much firstly because of being much nearer to the limit of the archy/technology and secondly they are generally limited by 600FSB (about as high as most mobos can handle) and therefore can only get a 12.5% increase at best. The 400FSB CPUs (using the 512k 0.13mu NW core) can usually get 533FSB easily, giving a 33.3% increase and are still not limited by the FSB the mobo can handle, if pushed (and it is pushing) to 600FSB they get a whopping 50% increase! Of course a P4A 1.8ghz o/c'ed to 533FSB and 2.4ghz gives IDENTICAL perf to a true P4B 533FSB 2.4ghz ... not bad considering the price difference eh?

:D If you have to push them hard or find the stock cooler is holding you back then ThermalT Volcano7+ is excellent on SktA CPUs (they run very hot) and usually come with a Sky478 kit, other coolers I've heard rec'ed are Swiftech's MCX-4000, Thermalright SLK-478, Alpha PAL 8045 and PAL 8942 ... here's some info on Skt478 coolers:

DansData Skt478
DansData Water coolers
DansData Chipset coolers
Overclockers
Cooler Guys
FrostyTech
 

CrazySaint

Platinum Member
May 3, 2002
2,441
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Originally posted by: AnAndAustin
:eek: Pushing the P4A 1.6ghz to 2.4ghz IS pushing things a little bit, you'd be needing that 150x4=600FSB speed which will almost certainly need very good cooling and voltage adjustment, 2.1ghz and 533FSB is again VERY safe and easy though and still a very nice perf gain, faster BTW than the P4 2.2ghz 400FSB! The P4A 1.8ghz is a much easier and safer bet to 2.4ghz at exactly a 133x4=533FSB and again should require no extra cooling or voltage tweaks, so all you'd have to do is raise the FSB to 133x4=533.

Not necessarily, 1.6A and 1.8As with recent pack dates (May or later) are often hitting 2.4GHz at or very near default voltage. Also, the stock HSF seems to be good up to around 2.5-2.6GHz. I've even heard of people going as high as 2.8GHz using the stock HS/F, though I wouldn't be comfortable going that high without buying a better HSF.

;) PC2700 (DDR333) isn't necessary IF you only use the 533FSB, PC2100 CL2.0 (DDR266) it works very well probably due to the lovely 1:2 ratio and low latency issues. If you go below or above 533FSB then PC2700 is a much better RAM, and shouldn't be much more expensive than PC2100 CL2.0.[/quote]

Unless, of course, you'd like to run the FSB at 133 (533MHz CPU FSB) then using a 4:5 mem ratio and run the memory at PC2700 offering an extra performance boost :)
 

DisinfectedDuck

Senior member
Jul 17, 2001
220
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I'm really lost with the motherboards... This is what i'm looking for:

A good model (What chipset??) that has USB 2.0 & supports 533MHZ but doesn't have onboard graphics...

If you can recommend a decent model that has those features (I'm sure there are many, maybe a decently priced one..? :) )

Thanks again, you guys are helping me very much!

 

AnAndAustin

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,112
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;) I understand ratios and the ability of setting PC2700 at 333mhz on a 533FSB (the ratio you suggest is for PC3200 though isn't it?), BUT I certainly seem to rem checking benchmarks and PC2100 CL2.0 is pretty much as fast as the PC2100 at 266mhz seems to match the 533FSB perfectly. Perhaps it is a matter of PC2100 CL2.0 easily matching PC2700 CL2.5 (which is much more common and cheaper than PC2700 CL2.0)?

TomsHW DDR vs RIMM

:) With the small price diff between P4A 1.6ghz and P4A 1.8ghz I would say 1.8A would be a much better buy, you wouldn't be stretching the CPU at all to get 2.4ghz and you'd effectively have a 'true' P4B 2.4ghz 533FSB. Then you would also have the scope to go higher, 600FSB should get 1.8 to 2.7 about as easily as 1.6 would get 2.4, with the 1.6 at 2.4 it leaves no scope for any further increases. Here's a few links anyway to show what real diffs there are between diff CPU and FSB speeds;

TomsHW XP2200+ vs P4 (shows the diffs in P4 speeds)
AnAndTech P4 2.53 review (shows the diffs in P4 speeds)
 

Zugzwang152

Lifer
Oct 30, 2001
12,134
1
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All mobos come with SOME sort of onboard graphics, do you mean you don't want to pay for a name-brand onboard chipset, like the gf2 or radeon7500?