Some Q's about a new TV

[Ghiddy]

I'm going to get a new TV soon and there's a lot i don't know about the tech that's out right now. I have a 52" DLP, and use it mainly for Blurays, Netflix, and some DVD's. May possibly use HD cable again, and might also connect a computer or set top device to watch some online content. My current DLP is 720p/1080i, and I am going to sell it before getting the new TV.

The TV will be about 8 - 10 feet from the couch. Here are my requirements:

• Wall mounted
• 1080p (or better, if such a thing exists)
• Don't care about 3D, but might care about 60/120/240
• Prefer LED-LCD because of the lower electricity use, and potential longer life, as well as the contrast ratio on full back-lit panels.
• Don't care about it being connected to internet or anything like that. Not sure what functionality that gives, but most likely would want to choose a custom set top box to provide the same functions if/when I do want that.
• Don't mind getting a lesser known brand if it is known to have a quality panel. Price will definitely be a big part of the decision.

One thing I'm confused about is the refresh rates. Apparently the screen itself has a refresh rate, and the signal input has a separate refresh rate, right? What determines the signal refresh rate? Is it determined by the TV, or the signal source (cable box/PS3/etc), or a combo of both?

Can you get 120/240Hz tv's that don't do 3d? If a tv does those refresh rates is it automatically capable of displaying a 3d image? I don't care about 3d but it would be nice to know how that fits in with the refresh rate.

A lot of people seem to not like the higher refresh rates. I went to the Samsung store recently and they had some super thin flat panels with AMAZING picture quality, and super smooth motion. I would definitely want one of those, and I'm guessing it was an LED/LCD panel because I don't think plasmas come that thin -- is that a correct assumption? The TV's were demo'ing some kind of HD nature program and it looked amazing. Assuming it was 120 or 240Hz, I'm not sure why anyone would say they don't like those refresh rates. So I think there is something that I'm missing. Is there something special about the signal they were feeding into the display units that covers up whatever it is that people don't like about 120/240? What would be the best way to experience that in person? I know I should go check out some TV's in-store, but is there specific content, or types of content that I should watch on the TV's to make that comparison?

Thanks in advance for reading all that. I will probably have more questions as I get closer to making a purchase.

 

[Anubis]

budget?
Viewing Environment?


samsung makes extremely thin plasmas, D7000 and D8000

the electricity use difference makes little to no difference at all

when people bitch about higher refresh rate TVs they are complaining about the Smooth motion or Cinema smooth or whatever they are calling the frame interpolation that makes everything look like a plastic soap opera. you can turn them all off and retain the other benefits of having a higher refresh rate

 

[Ghiddy]

<= ~$2000

 

[Ghiddy]

Not sure if this is what you mean by viewing environment. Let me know if there is other info needed:

The TV will be the only TV in the household. Medium amount of sunlight coming in from windows on the opposite wall, about 20 feet away from TV location. I'm considering rotating the whole room 90 degrees to cut down glare if that becomes an issue, and if the space allows for it. Haven't measured the room and couch yet to see if that will be possible.

I don't watch as much TV as most people, but when I do watch I like the quality to be nice. I have a really nice sound system already, and I like to watch movies and documentaries on BR, or HD cable at the highest image quality possible. One annoyance with my current TV is that when there is a lot of motion the image quality gets pretty bad, and kind of pixelated. Not sure if that was because of the way the cable TV signal was compressed. I can't remember if this happens on BR content.

 

[Soundmanred]

One annoyance with my current TV is that when there is a lot of motion the image quality gets pretty bad, and kind of pixelated. Not sure if that was because of the way the cable TV signal was compressed. I can't remember if this happens on BR content.

It's most likely your cable. They advertise HD, but it's highly compressed and looks horrible unless it's a still scene.

 

[smitbret]

Pixelation is a result of picture requirements being too great for the bandwidth at some point in the chain. I could say that I'm about 99.999999999999&#37; sure that it's not your tv. I'm about 90% sure it's just how it was broadcast and there's nothing you can do about it. Fast motion takes more information to process smoothly and they just don't provide enough bitrate to make it happen.

 

[Oyeve]

It's most likely your cable. They advertise HD, but it's highly compressed and looks horrible unless it's a still scene.

Most likely. TWC HD in NY is just crap. Sometimes looking at SD is better than the HD TWC pushes out. OTA HD is just so much better.

 

[soulcougher73]

I am a huge plasma fan so i would recommend a plasma TV. In the past since you mentioned sun coming in from the opposite wall, plasma had glass screens and LCDs had matte screens wich helped with glare. But today its almost impossible to find a matte screen (unfortunately). LCD and Plasma pretty much both only use glass screens now. So glare could be a problem. The higher end models usually have better glare reduction tech in the screens to help a bit. Refresh rates dont really matter much at all. Most people with LCD or LED-LCD turn off all those "fancy" features that make the picture look fake and soap opera like.

Power draw is almost a wash now-a-days between the 2 techs. In the past plamsa did draw quite a bit more, but not today. So that shouldnt even be a factor. I also wouldnt worry about anything THX related. You should be able to adjust settings to get close enough to that on your own if you want.

Id probably choose a samsung plasma if i was shopping today. But my Kuro 500M will last me a long time so im not in the market

 

[Ghiddy]

Can someone explain what features people turn off on the high refresh rate displays? I'm not going to just take someone's word for it that I won't like it and won't want to use it.

 

[RKS]

Can someone explain what features people turn off on the high refresh rate displays? I'm not going to just take someone's word for it that I won't like it and won't want to use it.

People don't like smoothing / high frame rates on movies because it gives it that soap-opera look.

 

[Anubis]

People don't like smoothing / high frame rates on movies because it gives it that soap-opera look.

this is pretty much it, it makes everyone look plastic, its not just movies, I see it on normal TV as well

I own a 240 HZ LED LCD and turned it all off and IMO its much better
I also own a Plasma and IMO Plasmas are better

 

[gar655]

I too prefer plasma, own two Panasonics. Even though they are the low end 720p models the picture is better than most of the 1080p lcd panels anywhere near the same price.

Pretty hard to find a new LCD that use 60hz panels. Entry level nearly all use 120hz. I can clearly see motion artifacts at 60hz. Not good for sports at all.

The best panels all include 3D for whatever reason.

The new LG "passive" 3D sets are getting good reviews. It's the only type of 3D TV that I would be interested in watching. Uses the same glasses that the Real3D movie theaters use. Which are cheap or even "free" if you "forget" to put them in the box on your way out of the theater.

Bottom line- plasma will give you the best overall picture for the least amount of money. You have to step up to expensive full LED array backlit, local dimming sets to get close to plasma level picture quality.

Gene

 

[lupi]

I have 3 plasmas. An old panny 720, along with new/nearly new panny and samsung sets. Don't ignore any set just because it has 3D, many of the best 2d displays are also the ones that are 3d capable.

 

[A5]

I have 3 plasmas. An old panny 720, along with new/nearly new panny and samsung sets. Don't ignore any set just because it has 3D, many of the best 2d displays are also the ones that are 3d capable.

By "many" you mean "all". All the top-end TVs (with the best PQ) have 3D. You don't have to use it if you don't want to however. Also, the only fully back-lit LED-LCD TVs in the OP's price range are Vizios - I don't mind them, but some people are not big fans.

As for specific models, look at these (all prices are on Amazon):
Vizio XVT3D554SV - 55" LED-LCD (full array) for $1500
Samsung UN55D6500 - 55" LED-LCD (edge lit) for ~$2000
Samsung PN59D7000 - 59" Plasma for ~$1800
Panasonic P60GT30 - 60" Plasma for ~$1800

The best LED-LCD is the Sony HX929 series, but it's well outside of your price range at these sizes. The best plasma is the Panasonic VT30, but it is also outside of your range at these sizes.

 

[Ghiddy]

By "many" you mean "all". All the top-end TVs (with the best PQ) have 3D. You don't have to use it if you don't want to however. Also, the only fully back-lit LED-LCD TVs in the OP's price range are Vizios - I don't mind them, but some people are not big fans.

One thing I still don't understand is if there is any difference between 3D and a TV that supports some minimum refresh rate? Isn't 3D just displaying alternating images, therefore doubling the required refresh rate?

As for specific models, look at these (all prices are on Amazon):
Vizio XVT3D554SV - 55" LED-LCD (full array) for $1500
Samsung UN55D6500 - 55" LED-LCD (edge lit) for ~$2000
Samsung PN59D7000 - 59" Plasma for ~$1800
Panasonic P60GT30 - 60" Plasma for ~$1800

The best LED-LCD is the Sony HX929 series, but it's well outside of your price range at these sizes. The best plasma is the Panasonic VT30, but it is also outside of your range at these sizes.

Awesome, thank you for including the list of models. Any recommendations in the 50" - 54" size range?

 

[alfa147x]

Why is it so hard to find a 46 inch plasma with 1080p? Well for cheap?
I'v been following this for a while and have had no luck
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=525175&t=2935479

 

[smitbret]

One thing I still don't understand is if there is any difference between 3D and a TV that supports some minimum refresh rate? Isn't 3D just displaying alternating images, therefore doubling the required refresh rate?



Awesome, thank you for including the list of models. Any recommendations in the 50" - 54" size range?

They are not the same. However, because of the way 3D is currently implemented, your TV must be at least 120Hz. Not every 120Hz+ tv will do 3D, but every 3D tv will be at least 120Hz.

 

[smitbret]

Why is it so hard to find a 46 inch plasma with 1080p? Well for cheap?
I'v been following this for a while and have had no luck
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=525175&t=2935479

46" is just not a standard size for plasmas (42", 50", 58", 60", 63"). The exception is Samsung adding an inch to most of their TV sizes this year for whatever reason (43, 51, etc.).

I don't know why it's this way, but if you try to get anything other than those sizes, it's either going to be very expensive or just not exist.

 

[JackBurton]

Why is it so hard to find a 46 inch plasma with 1080p? Well for cheap?
I'v been following this for a while and have had no luck
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=525175&t=2935479

Why not just get a 50"?

 

[Ghiddy]

They are not the same. However, because of the way 3D is currently implemented, your TV must be at least 120Hz. Not every 120Hz+ tv will do 3D, but every 3D tv will be at least 120Hz.

Thanks, that's good to know. Now I'm curious as to why not every 120Hz+ tv can do 3d. What's the underlying reason?

 

[smitbret]

Thanks, that's good to know. Now I'm curious as to why not every 120Hz+ tv can do 3d. What's the underlying reason?

There are other hardware/software requirements, 120Hz is just one.

 

[Gintaras]

Most likely. TWC HD in NY is just crap. Sometimes looking at SD is better than the HD TWC pushes out. OTA HD is just so much better.

Some channels are good, some channels aren't...Spanish channels are very good...

Another thing, your TV might be crappy....