Some newb thoughts on 1156/1366

[TheRealMrGrey]

My situation: need to buy a new system in mid Oct due to move back to the states from overseas - not worth shipping my 3-year-old desktop.

Looking over all the rumors about i5 and knowledge about i7: Trying to get the facts straight, any feedback/suggestions would be appreciated, as I am a newb and will be building my 1st system. I am looking for bang-for-buck products, with emphasis on gaming.

(1) Turbo functionality on i5/i7 allows one to deactivate cores to boost speeds, or just boost speeds:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...ts/showdoc.aspx?i=3585

I assume one will still want an after-market cooler for this. Does this turbo functionality make home-tweaked overclocking redundant? I assume no, since this appears to be a multiplier effect (we can still set the clocks/Volts). Can one set the Turbo thresholds, or are they hardwired? Does 1366 support Turbo, or is it only on 1156?

(2) Initial reviews (in China) suggest the 1156 and 1366 processors perform about the same in games (even i5 and i7 are on par). As far as I can tell, the major reasons to go 1366 over 1156 are:

(a) Hyper Threading (HT) - set 4 real cores to 8 virtual cores
(b) Triple channel RAM instead of double channel
(c) 16x/16x SLI/Crossfire over 8x/8x

For HT, this benefit depends on whether the games I play use multi-threading and whether I expect future games to do so. I usually play RP games, and most of those aren't on the list of multi-thread games:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2242735&enterthread=y

It is not clear to me whether there is a significant benefit from 3x RAM vs 2x RAM to warrant the few hundred extra dollars for a more expensive MB, RAM, CPU. Perhaps this will not be known until the 1156 MBs are tested and compared to 1366.

This article suggests the extra PCIe channels with 1366 don't matter:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2297612&enterthread=y

because GPUs rarely use 8x much less 16x, and mostly communicate through the bridge (I assume they mean the GPU-supplied bridge between cards). But what about scalability? Will this be true in 2 years?

(3) Is there any indication on whether Intel will sideline one architecture (1156 or 1366) in favor of pushing the other into the future? I'm thinking upgradibility here.

(4) Any advice on my purchase timing (mid Oct)? 1156 will only just be out, and there will no doubt be countless driver problems to solve, recalled MBs, BSOD, etc, etc. Is there a ballpark time one should wait for these sorts of problems to be sorted? Does new hardware usually work with older games - for example, I'm still only 1/4 through Oblivion despite it having been out for 3 years.

Thanks.

 

[IntelUser2000]

(1) Turbo functionality on i5/i7 allows one to deactivate cores to boost speeds, or just boost speeds:

-Both, but the boost on all cores are minimal. On the S1156, the boost is +2 speed grades(consider +1 is equal to 133MHz) with all cores active, and +5 speed grades with only one core active. Likely the biggest contributor is the all core boost speed as even games as at least 2 threads and not all motherboards support single core Turbo(for example Gigabyte boards don't do single core Turbo, while Asus/Intel does).

(2) Initial reviews (in China) suggest the 1156 and 1366 processors perform about the same in games (even i5 and i7 are on par). As far as I can tell, the major reasons to go 1366 over 1156 are:

(a) Hyper Threading (HT) - set 4 real cores to 8 virtual cores
(b) Triple channel RAM instead of double channel
(c) 16x/16x SLI/Crossfire over 8x/8x

-Actually S1156 is a bit slower than S1366. Basically you can think of S1366 CPU performing as good as the S1156 CPU one clock speed higher(133MHz).
a) You are confusing Core i5 with Socket 1156. It's Core i5 on the Socket 1156 that doesn't support Hyper Threading. The Core i7's on S1156/1366 both support Hyper Threading
b)Yes
c)According to one review not only there was no advantage but the S1156 fared better off comparatively with multi GPU comparisons than single GPU comparisons. Meaning maybe latency matters slightly more than bandwidth with multi GPU.

(3) Is there any indication on whether Intel will sideline one architecture (1156 or 1366) in favor of pushing the other into the future? I'm thinking upgradibility here.

-No. Because S1366 is quick work for Intel. I assume S1366 for PC was created since they couldn't fathom S1156 quickly and had to release Nehalem for the sake of competition and Tick Tock. As long as you'll see 2P Xeons you'll see S1366... Unless they kill both sockets.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Double post.

FU Anandtech with retarded editing abilities(even moreso with Daily Tech)

 

[cusideabelincoln]

(4) As for purchasing specific hardware, my advice depends on your budget. I'm assuming you want performance per dollar, with some upgradeability. Socket 1156 provides the best of both worlds (lower cost, and probably better upgradeability - depending on what processor you get - than other platforms like LGA775). Socket 1366 would probably offer the best upgrade path if you're looking for multithreaded performance, as six-core processors will release for it.

And older games will work fine on newer hardware. Oblivion will certainly work fine, as it's not really that old. You'll probably only run into issues if there is a game that doesn't like the new OSs Vista or Windows 7. The only game issue I've had with Vista is getting the Bloodmoon expansion for Morrowind to install. Otherwise, the game runs fine.

 

[TheRealMrGrey]

Thanks folks!

 

[TheRealMrGrey]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000

c)According to one review not only there was no advantage but the S1156 fared better off comparatively with multi GPU comparisons than single GPU comparisons. Meaning maybe latency matters slightly more than bandwidth with multi GPU.

Wait, why does 1156 have better latency?

 

[mozartrules]

Originally posted by: TheRealMrGrey
Wait, why does 1156 have better latency?

Because the PCIe is on the CPU itself. This means that the communiaction with the GPU doesn't have to go through the extra hop on the MB chipset.

 

[apoppin]

(c) 16x/16x SLI/Crossfire over 8x/8x

http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?shownews=24935

MSI is also offering, a Nvidia nForce 200 bridge chip which broadcasts 16 PCI-Express lanes from the processor root complex to 32 lanes on the PCI-E x16 slots
- their highest end one offers 3 x 16x PCIe
(~$400, i guess )

 

[Ben90]

Originally posted by: TheRealMrGrey

It is not clear to me whether there is a significant benefit from 3x RAM vs 2x RAM to warrant the few hundred extra dollars for a more expensive MB, RAM, CPU.

Where is everyone pulling these thousand dollar i7 setup numbers from?

You can get x58s for 170 off newegg
1 extra stick of ram will be ~30 bucks
The 1156 i7 costs the exact same as the 1336 i7

Ram will eventually be cheaper for a 3x(x) setup anyways because lower density ram doesnt carry the premium that the high density stuff does

 

[TheRealMrGrey]

Originally posted by: Ben90

Where is everyone pulling these thousand dollar i7 setup numbers from?

You can get x58s for 170 off newegg
1 extra stick of ram will be ~30 bucks
The 1156 i7 costs the exact same as the 1336 i7

Ram will eventually be cheaper for a 3x(x) setup anyways because lower density ram doesnt carry the premium that the high density stuff does

Hmm, the rumors I've read have suggested the 1156 MBs and processors will be cheaper (certainly the i5 will be). Of course, these are rumors, you have some good points. I need to search for a test that shows the 3x RAM is actually realized over 2x (ie, isn't just better on paper).

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: TheRealMrGrey
Hmm, the rumors I've read have suggested the 1156 MBs and processors will be cheaper (certainly the i5 will be). Of course, these are rumors, you have some good points. I need to search for a test that shows the 3x RAM is actually realized over 2x (ie, isn't just better on paper).

Triple channel owns dual for Everest.
Yeah, that's about it.
In real world applications, there's little difference.

i7/i5 pricing (in 1k units)
This could be off...just a graph i got elsewhere a while back.

The i7-860 is on par with the i7-920; same pricing roughly.
i5-750 is a bit behind (& only 4 cores/threads), but cheaper.

Mobos will be overpriced for P55 initially most certainly, but should smarten up a couple months in.

 

[ilkhan]

OMG, ITS MY CHART!
Thats a little older, but the pricing numbers haven't changed.

Expect s1156 boards to start in the $130-140 range, anand did an analysis of the board costs (components) a couple days ago.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: ilkhan
OMG, ITS MY CHART!
Thats a little older, but the pricing numbers haven't changed.

Expect s1156 boards to start in the $130-140 range, anand did an analysis of the board costs (components) a couple days ago.

Hope you don't mind me linking to it.

I can take it off my site if you'd rather provide me with your link (couldn't remember where i'd found it).

 

[IntelUser2000]

Hey ilkhan, think you can add the multiple Turbo speed grades??

For Lynnfield its

i7 750: +1 for 4 cores, +3 for 2 cores
i7 8xx: +2 for 4 cores, +4 for 2 cores

Clarkdale:

i5 540: +1 for 2 cores, +2 for 1 core

 

[ilkhan]

I dont mind, I was just like "wow somebody used my chart."
I'll try to put it in, but having trouble making it look even semi-elegant.

I haven't hit save on this yet, as I'm not really happy with it. But Ill see if you prefer this layout.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7748/capturespq.jpg

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: ilkhan
I dont mind, I was just like "wow somebody used my chart."
I'll try to put it in, but having trouble making it look even semi-elegant.

I haven't hit save on this yet, as I'm not really happy with it. But Ill see if you prefer this layout.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7748/capturespq.jpg

FWIW I like the layout of the chart in the screencap.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Originally posted by: ilkhan
I dont mind, I was just like "wow somebody used my chart."
I'll try to put it in, but having trouble making it look even semi-elegant.

I haven't hit save on this yet, as I'm not really happy with it. But Ill see if you prefer this layout.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7748/capturespq.jpg

That looks pretty good actually, thanks!

BTW where did you get the info on the Arrandale IGP clock speeds?

Oh yea and I forgot about the low power Lynnfield like the i5 750S. I wouldn't be too sure about those speed grades. They might be able to have a higher 4 core Turbo with that TDP. But its fine for now as we don't really know exactly what the clock is.

 

[ilkhan]

arrandale clock speeds are guesses, as it says. Basically we know wattage and I extrapolated from that. With the lover voltages of mobile chips, they may have full speed GPUs. We don't know.