Some "love" for Intel, the new budget king? (G4560 madness!!)

[VirtualLarry]

Well, as is my custom, I've invested in parts to build a number of lower-end Skylake / Kaby Lake rigs. Hopefully, I can find some customers.

I know that the "Hype Train" is rolling right along with Ryzen 7 being released Mar. 2, but you have to keep things in perspective.

Many people here, in this forum, want a Ryzen. And why wouldn't you? It's the equivalent of Intel's much-vaunted "enthusiast" HEDT 8-core CPU, at half the price! It's the perfect enthusiast chip, or appears so.

But, there are those (that trend towards the more "normal", aka "non-enthusiast" spectrum), that don't really need a Ryzen 7.

Anyways, I'm hoping to capitalize on what hype is left around the G4560 CPU, being as powerful as it is for $64.

Coupled with 8GB of DDR4, a decent little B150 board, and maybe a mid-range dGPU for some budget gaming (R7 250X, aka 7770, or possibly a GTX 950 or GTX 1050), should hopefully be a hit.

Any other system builders here, that are building lower-end SKL/KBL rigs, for customers? Or have their customers all turned into enthusiasts, and want Ryzen 7 machines...

I haven't forgotten about Bristol Ridge or Raven's Ridge, if AMD can get them out in a reasonable timeframe, and they have better iGPUs, then those might become my low-end chips of choice.

But currently, the G4560 is it, mostly because of price and inclusion of HT. It seems the overall market somewhat agrees with me, as last week, these chips were no-where to be found from major online retailers. Disty must have finally gotten a new shipment this week.

And if you want one, Antonline on ebay has them for $59.99 FS, $4 cheaper than ARK's list price.

 

[Redentor]

Now is Intel the king of low budget configurations?

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Now that the tide has turned, my little independent computer place may end up using Intel for budget builds and AMD for normal and high end ones Wouldn't that be a laugh? And yes the G4560 looks like the chip to beat; it will displace the A8-7600 in my budget build lineup. ...until Ravenridge comes around and kicks it silly.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Now is Intel the king of low budget configurations?

Yep. Strange world, isn't it? AMD taking over the high-end with Ryzen 7, and Intel moving into the top budget spot with the G4560.

Look up the G4560 build and gaming rig videos on YouTube. There's a lot of hype around this "little" chip, that's essentially an i3-6100, minus a few hundred Mhz, and AVX/AVX2 opcodes, for half the price. And the i3-6100 is no slouch in budget gaming, often, in many titles, it's above the FX 8-core CPUs! (Maybe not in Watch Dogs 2 though.)

(Edit: I meant, the i3-6100 combined with a capable dGPU, for gaming. Although, I was able to play Skyrim (vanilla) on an i3-6100's HD530 iGPU, at 1080P low, so the iGPU's no slouch, but it's still not all the capable when it comes to modern AAA games. A GTX1050(ti) goes so much further.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hi Azuma! How's the higher RAM and SSD prices hitting you? I'm cutting back on RAM qty, unless customers really neeed it. Was throwing in 16GB regardless, back when it was $50/kit. Now, standard config is 8GB, and for extreme budget rigs, a single 4GB DIMM. Though, I hesitate to actually use a machine personally with only 4GB of RAM, as web browsing for any length of time seems to hit that ceiling. At least, my Lenovo B50 laptop with A6-6310 does. Thankfully, it has an SSD, and even when Commit Charge exceeds Physical RAM Size, it's not horrible. Just slight pauses.)

And yes, an SSD is basically mandatory in my "Browser box" builds. For the "extreme budget" builds, I go with a 32GB or 60GB SSD, and often Linux. For "normal" builds with Windows, I go with 120GB, and for "Gamer" builds, I go with 240GB, and with the option for a HDD.

Also, I'm kind of curious, did your whitebox builder shop ever sell Haswell G3258 builds back in the day, overclocked or not? I guess I got into the G3258 hype (as a builder) kind of late, and by that time, the buzz as using them as gaming rigs was mostly negative ("bad frametimes", "horrible stutters"), and I didn't sell a one. So I've taken to re-building my current stock, which uses a Biostar micro-ATX board with two slots, into my Winsis WT-02 cases, taking out the gaming-grade video card, and selling them as "Facebook / browsing rockets", more or less.

Then, I'm putting Biostar B150 boards into those cases, currently with SKL CPUs to flash the BIOS on them, and then I've got some G4560 CPUs coming soon, to drop in. Then, I'm going to put gaming cards in a couple of them. (Got 4 of the B150 boards. Wish that I could have afforded more, as they didn't have a customer qty limit at the time. $27 shipped was a nice price.)

 

[plopke]

Since AMD does not sell us Bristol Ridge directly ? ,
budget browsing/office desktop will still be dominated by intel specially if a igpu is enough.
Budget gaming on iGpu , intel G4XXX ???
Budget gaming on dGpu , intel until possibly a quadcore R3 , but when?
Midrange on dGpu , AMD in april on R5/R3 we have to see how prices have evolved but atm still intel?

 

[plopke]

PS

Hi Azuma! How's the higher RAM and SSD prices hitting you? I'm cutting back on RAM qty, unless customers really neeed it. Was throwing in 16GB regardless, back when it was $50/kit. Now, standard config is 8GB, and for extreme budget rigs, a single 4GB DIMM. Though, I hesitate to actually use a machine personally with only 4GB of RAM, as web browsing for any length of time seems to hit that ceiling. At least, my Lenovo B50 laptop with A6-6310 does. Thankfully, it has an SSD, and even when Commit Charge exceeds Physical RAM Size, it's not horrible. Just slight pauses.)

Thing is prices of 2133-2666 DDR4 have skyrocketed for me but the gap between those and 3000MHZ have closed quiet a lot , which is quiet funny if you want a nice deal on memory look at higher speed DIMM and check if they downclock or your build can use it

For example 3000MHZ DDR4 16gb dimm CL15 are just a little bit more expensive as 2666 or lower .... and i find more flash deals on higher end memory.
http://geizhals.eu/?cat=ramddr3&xf=253_16384~5015_3000~5828_DDR4~5830_UDIMM1~5831_DIMM&sort=p
http://geizhals.eu/?cat=ramddr3&xf=253_16384~5015_2400~5015_2666~5828_DDR4~5830_UDIMM1~5831_DIMM

.

 

[whm1974]

Just wait, I'm sure that AMD will be releasing a "budget" RyZen CPU shortly.

 

[escrow4]

I've decided to scrap my 1800X plans and build a tiny porn er office box (much more fun!) around a Coolermaster Elite 110 and a G4560 backed by a Gigabyte H270N-WIFI mobo. Always wanted something svelte and small. Will post how this chip feels in a week or so. And yes RAM is steep, an 8GB kit I'm using here (the skankiest cheapest Patriot set) is $75 AUD.

Its more or less a VirtualLarry approved build except mini-ITX mobos are stupid expensive here and I'm spending a bit extra on an M.2 SSD.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I've decided to scrap my 1800X plans and build a tiny porn er office box (much more fun!) around a Coolermaster Elite 110 and a G4560 backed by a Gigabyte H270N-WIFI mobo. Always wanted something svelte and small. Will post how this chip feels in a week or so. And yes RAM is steep, an 8GB kit I'm using here (the skankiest cheapest Patriot set) is $75 AUD.

Its more or less a VirtualLarry approved build except mini-ITX mobos are stupid expensive here and I'm spending a bit extra on an M.2 SSD.

LOL. Awesome! Hope that there will be pics.

 

[IllogicalGlory]

G4560 is the only Intel product that seems at home in the (anticipated) Ryzen stack (incl. 4 and 6 core Ryzen SKUs).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Thing is prices of 2133-2666 DDR4 have skyrocketed for me but the gap between those and 3000MHZ have closed quiet a lot , which is quiet funny if you want a nice deal on memory look at higher speed DIMM and check if they downclock or your build can use it

Yeah. I have a stock of 2133 and 2400 RAM to use for entry-level Kaby Lake builds, but once that is used up, I might find buying 3000 is actually cheaper than 2133/2400.

 

[formulav8]

Just wait, I'm sure that AMD will be releasing a "budget" RyZen CPU shortly.

I saw a post I think' of 7th gen Athlon coming up. Most likely Bristol Ridge.

AMD still needs an APU CPU for AM4 until the Ryzen inspired APU kicks in the 2nd half of this year.

 

[VirtualLarry]

AM4 APUs, that could sell "budget" AM4 rigs, that allow for the drop-in upgrades of Ryzen 5/7 CPUs, or Raven's Ridge APUs, would be killer, at the right price, to get AM4 in at the "ground floor" of budget builds. Thus insuring a top-to-bottom stack of AM4 sales.

 

[escrow4]

So why is with all of Intel's tech might a plain old 14nm dual core (even with hyperthreading) is still 51w whilst a coked out top shelf i5 7600 is at 65w? Shouldn't the duals have dropped to 35w by now?

 

[cbn]

Escrow,

I've seen evidence past 50+W Pentiums work great in fanless chassis meant for 35W Intel CPUs:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1321-page5.html

So my theory is that the desktop Pentiums are (on average) a lower TDP.

But I've been wondering if the addition of HT to the 51W Kabylake Pentium changes that? (Or is Pentium G4560 a Poor man's Core i3 T series)

Core i3-7100T--> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/processors/core/i3-processors/i3-7100t.html
Core i3 7300T--> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/processors/core/i3-processors/i3-7300t.html

 

[DrMrLordX]

AM4 APUs, that could sell "budget" AM4 rigs, that allow for the drop-in upgrades of Ryzen 5/7 CPUs, or Raven's Ridge APUs, would be killer, at the right price, to get AM4 in at the "ground floor" of budget builds. Thus insuring a top-to-bottom stack of AM4 sales.

Only problem I see there is that, if you had a choice between LGA1151 with a G4560 or AM4 with an A12-9800, which would you pick and why?

The only edge I see for AM4 in that scenario is if X300 or B350 chipsets are used as a baseline. There are some cheap-ish B350 boards, so it isn't entirely implausible, but some of those B350s just will not handle an 8-core Ryzen. So it limits upgradability.

A 150/250 board will take a 7700k, no problem. And cost you less down the road.

Raven Ridge will shake things up, but for now . . .

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think that, in reality, the dual-core SKL / KBL CPUs hardly get over 35W, but they are rated at those TDP classes because of the cooling required.

Probably related to the reason, that 65W Ryzen CPUs require a 95W cooler. Some speculate that the smaller die area, makes removing the heat more difficult, and that's why the TDP class upgrade.

It could be just binning, too. The G4560 may take only 35W in 90% of the CPUs, but if Intel made that SKU have a 35W TDP, then 10% of the bin wouldn't meet specs. Same reason that AMD overvolts their Polaris GPU chips.

 

[cbn]

It could be just binning, too. The G4560 may take only 35W in 90% of the CPUs, but if Intel made that SKU have a 35W TDP, then 10% of the bin wouldn't meet specs. Same reason that AMD overvolts their Polaris GPU chips.

It must be binning because if you look at the links I provided the Core i3 7100T is 2C/4T 3.4 Ghz and the Core i3 7300T is 2C/4T 3.5 Ghz.

But I do wonder if a good share of the G4560 (through trial and error of individual chips) could work as a 35W bin? Granted G4560 is 3.5 Ghz, but it doesn't have AVX/AVX2 and the iGPU is only GT1.

 

[escrow4]

Hmmm, either way I'll poke around in the guts of this system once I get it going.

EDIT: This mITX build has got me excited. Haven't built something this small since an ISK HTPC.

 

[tamz_msc]

Why do I get the feeling that an unlocked KL Pentium is round the corner, a la G3258?

 

[cbn]

Why do I get the feeling that an unlocked KL Pentium is round the corner, a la G3258?

.....because next year is the 20th Anniversary for Celeron? So unlocked 2C/4T Celeron?

I just hope if they release such a part they don't confine it to Z boards only. Maybe since it would be such a cheap processor it could work either on H boards or a special "low spec" type Z board. (Z210?)

 

[.vodka]

According to Tom's the G4560 consumes 23w under stress testing, it could easily run fanless for daily usage.

I'll have to replace the E8400 + Radeon 6450 + half dead G31 motherboard my parents are using for web browsing, it's only got one out of two memory slots working and it's maxed out at 2GB DDR2. Feeling a bit cramped with a few Chrome tabs open.

G4560 + some B250 motherboard so it'll boot out of the box and a 4GB DDR4 stick, doesn't really matter what speed, if 3D performance is needed for the iGPU I'll add another stick down the road and enable dual channel. Lots of extra speed, lots of power savings, less heat... it's perfect for them.

Last year I built some Haswell Celeron G1820 cheap rigs for some people, I was impressed with the performance of that heavily cut down chip... the G4560 sure impresses for what it costs.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Why do I get the feeling that an unlocked KL Pentium is round the corner, a la G3258?

Well, we finally got an unlocked i3, although the price makes it a pointless choice compared to the cheapest i5 CPU, unless you just like to experiment. (Or are into very high ST benchmarks, as would benefit some emulators.)

It would be cool, if next year, Intel produced a: HyperThreaded, Unlocked, Celeron. And made it $59.99, or less. Unfortunately, being a Celeron, it would largely be pointless to OC, because of the lack of cache, and would end up much like the G3258, although in a different way. (Celeron slow due to lack of cache, no way around that, G3258 slow in gaming, due to lack of threads, no way around that.)

Yeah, I could see Intel doing that. It would be a "special" CPU, but it wouldn't risk cannabalizing the rest of their product stack, like the G4560 seems like it might.

Edit: It would indeed be pointless, if it required buying a "Z" board, just to OC a Celeron.

Interesting, my Biostar B150 board, has the ability to adjust CPU ratios... non-Z OC for Skylake unlocked CPUs? I would like to investigate this more, but there aren't any multi-unlocked SKL / KBL CPUs out or announced, that aren't "K" CPUs. An unlocked Celeron would be neat-o.

Maybe it's for locking-in all-core Turbo to the max turbo multi for single-core?

 

[escrow4]

So the build is priced out and the G4560 it is.

EDIT: By gutting some parts and cheapening on others the total shaved off is around $300 compared to a full fat sexy i5 build.