Some good news on the outsourcing front...

[Atreus21]

Even if it is relatively small, hopefully it is indicative of a growing trend.


http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_madeinamerica/


I would've posted the text but it doesn't appear to allow that.

Cliffs:

American business owners are beginning to return their manufacturing operations to the United States from China because of quality issues and other reasons, such as a 24 hour flight to check their products' quality.

A good read. Read this in the barber shop this morning.

 

[Hacp]

What about the H1Bs that are stealing US engineering jobs?

 

[davmat787]

Read this on Ars 3-4 weeks ago, very interesting read and accessible.

 

[Imdmn04]

Apple and Lenovo's stuff are just fine.

If you are outsourcing to China, you better whip them to adopt the quality process set by the Western companies. The guy in the story didn't, you think Steve Job is just gonna sit on his ass if Foxconn made "empty promises" on quality issues?

I don't blindly believe stuff is higher quality just because it is made in America, I believe in the quality control process and those who execute the process, whether they are Chinese or American. Granted, if they are Chinese, you probably have to micro-manage and whip them into executing the quality process because this is not what they are used to.

 

[Engineer]

The 2nd to last company I worked for just finished closing down all 7 of it's border region Mexican plants because of quality. Moving back and expanding the plants they have left (closed down about 7 or 8 US plants). Almost didn't survive....and still might not after the financial issues with the poor quality.

 

[Zebo]

Small Business do that all the time without the resources or customers to get factory orders and shipments from China. My dad and his partner started a tritium light & lighting firm in the 1970's in Anaheim CA and employed ~25 Americans but they sold it in the 1990s to a Chinese company who moved all operations to China. Most business do this when it's time to cash out. Or alternatively move just the jobs when you want to cash in. Labor costs are 1/20th as much and they work twice as hard, no brainier, easy math.

The problem is if you want middle class standards of living that's not the recipe for it which depends on high wages at the bottom.

As far as quality in western and Japanese culture there seems to be an ethos of do a job right or don't do it at all which lacks in many culture, but they can be trained if motivation is right. I saw this a lot in construction business. 1-2 years later and the formerly shotty Mexican workmanship could do good work.

 

[wuliheron]

The old British empire became known as a nation of shop keepers for their widespread ethos of sticking to the spirit of their agreements rather then just the letter. In contrast the Japanese are infamous for seeing just how much they can get away with and, if they can't get away with something, doing serious damage control as fast as possible. The Chinese have issues with corruption and infrastructure that make either of these approaches problematic. In other words, its not just a question of teaching them how to do the job the way you want it done.

 

[Zebo]

That's pretty true. I forgot about all the wheels that need greasing maybe because we are getting that way too. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216

 

[dmcowen674]

Even if it is relatively small, hopefully it is indicative of a growing trend.


http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_madeinamerica/


I would've posted the text but it doesn't appear to allow that.

Cliffs:

American business owners are beginning to return their manufacturing operations to the United States from China because of quality issues and other reasons, such as a 24 hour flight to check their products' quality.

A good read. Read this in the barber shop this morning.

This is good news.

Too bad there are no ramifications to the rich bastards that put profits over people to begin with.

 

[PingSpike]

My company had outsourced a few parts to a Chinese firm (didn't really have the manpower to do it ourselves initially) but then brought it back in because there was one engineer that basically had a full time job of babysitting them to keep the quality from going to shit....so we weren't saving any money or time. You expect some issues initially, but you also expect that once they are resolved for them to not come back over and over again. They were cheap, but if the shit doesn't work who cares?

My wife's company had assays using mouse plasma bought from a Chinese company that they could never get to work right. They finally had the plasma tested and it was dog plasma. Apparently any plasma is just as good to that company.

Honestly though, if you contract work out to the cheapest bidder in a country with lax standards what do you expect to get?

 

[dmcowen674]

My company had outsourced a few parts to a Chinese firm (didn't really have the manpower to do it ourselves initially) but then brought it back in because there was one engineer that basically had a full time job of babysitting them to keep the quality from going to shit....so we weren't saving any money or time. You expect some issues initially, but you also expect that once they are resolved for them to not come back over and over again. They were cheap, but if the shit doesn't work who cares?

My wife's company had assays using mouse plasma bought from a Chinese company that they could never get to work right. They finally had the plasma tested and it was dog plasma. Apparently any plasma is just as good to that company.

Honestly though, if you contract work out to the cheapest bidder in a country with lax standards what do you expect to get?

Thanks for being open on your Traitorships

 

[Lanyap]

Offshoring manufacturing doesn't usually work as well for small businesses as it does for large biz. Large companies have more people to oversee operations.

 

[Doppel]

Decent article but heavy on anecdotes. The reality is that manufacturing in China as a result of US off-shoring continues to grow. There are definitely problems with it, though.

Also, let's not remember that a key reason manufacturing is growing in the US is simply automation; jobs are shed but net output goes up. The ideal manufacturing operation, after all, is one run entirely by machines with a guy to simply collect money from product after it's sold. The good news is that as labor becomes a smaller percentage of total product cost the attraction of going from a $15/hour American to a $2/hour Mexican or Chinese laborer becomes less meaningful. And universally there is going to be efficiency losses from language to different work cultures to travel and management.

 

[MovingTarget]

Decent article but heavy on anecdotes. The reality is that manufacturing in China as a result of US off-shoring continues to grow. There are definitely problems with it, though.

Also, let's not remember that a key reason manufacturing is growing in the US is simply automation; jobs are shed but net output goes up. The ideal manufacturing operation, after all, is one run entirely by machines with a guy to simply collect money from product after it's sold. The good news is that as labor becomes a smaller percentage of total product cost the attraction of going from a $15/hour American to a $2/hour Mexican or Chinese laborer becomes less meaningful. And universally there is going to be efficiency losses from language to different work cultures to travel and management.

Even so, we would still prefer our goods to be made in the US rather than China, even if the goods are produced using only automated processes. We need an industrial/trade policy that will make that happen.

 

[Doppel]

Even so, we would still prefer our goods to be made in the US rather than China, even if the goods are produced using only automated processes. We need an industrial/trade policy that will make that happen.

It would be nice for the average person but not good for the shareholders. Since neither I nor you pay the lobbyists that own the government, don't hold your breath.

 

[davmat787]

Even so, we would still prefer our goods to be made in the US rather than China, even if the goods are produced using only automated processes. We need an industrial/trade policy that will make that happen.

Apparently we really don't, at least not if we have to pay for it. Do you buy exclusively made in the USA products? Ever looked at the walmart story?

If you can buy an equivalent made in the USA product, enough people might pay a 10-15% premium if it has flags all over it, but that is very hard to do. How many people do you think you look country of origin over the price difference between products?

Perhaps we need to do a better job of highlighting companies that are still manufacturing in the US, such as New Balance, so people are more aware of the choices.

 

[Albatross]

This indicates that the economy is more than just numbers:the Northern Europeans who emigrated to the US had significant different cultural and ethical values than their southern neighbors,let alone Asia.
It appears that spiritual matters take precedence after all: protestant ethics,autonomy of the individual(soul) and all that.

 

[Engineer]

Apparently we really don't, at least not if we have to pay for it. Do you buy exclusively made in the USA products? Ever looked at the walmart story?

If you can buy an equivalent made in the USA product, enough people might pay a 10-15% premium if it has flags all over it, but that is very hard to do. How many people do you think you look country of origin over the price difference between products?

Perhaps we need to do a better job of highlighting companies that are still manufacturing in the US, such as New Balance, so people are more aware of the choices.

98% of shoes and 96% of clothing is made outside of the US so there isn't much choice now. New Balance started shipping factories to China just like the rest. I could not find a pair of made in the USA NB's at Shoe Carnival the last time I was there.


And it isn't just low skilled factory work being shipped out. Like I said above about my 2nd employer ago, they closed my plant down and shipped the 35 tool and die making (plus machine building) positions to Korea. There was 1,000+ years of experience at that shop and the plant was actually profitable (only one out of 15 that year before it was closed).

 

[Doppel]

98% of shoes and 96% of clothing is made outside of the US so there isn't much choice now. New Balance started shipping factories to China just like the rest. I could not find a pair of made in the USA NB's at Shoe Carnival the last time I was there.


And it isn't just low skilled factory work being shipped out. Like I said above about my 2nd employer ago, they closed my plant down and shipped the 35 tool and die making (plus machine building) positions to Korea. There was 1,000+ years of experience at that shop and the plant was actually profitable (only one out of 15 that year before it was closed).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Balance#Made_in_USA_.28and_UK.29_stance

http://www.newbalance.com/usa/#/made-in-usa

 

[JSt0rm]

I pointed to clothing made in the us and people scoffed over the prices. Granted the quality and prices were very high but our mindset is the problem. All we want is a bunch of cheap shit.

I'm looking for new furniture now and I'm looking into reclaimed sources of wood products from the 1800's. We dont have old growth wood like that any more and the stuff just looks sick. Buying into this industry supports Americans all the way down the line plus its recycled.

For me I would rather have a few choice items made of quality then closets full of Chinese crap.

 

[JSt0rm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Balance#Made_in_USA_.28and_UK.29_stance

http://www.newbalance.com/usa/#/made-in-usa

Not running shoes but have been made in America for over a century

http://www.whitesboots.com/

 

[shira]

What about the H1Bs that are stealing US engineering jobs?

But you believe in a totally unfettered free market, so the concept of US jobs being "stolen" is irrelevant to you, right?

 

[Hacp]

But you believe in a totally unfettered free market, so the concept of US jobs being "stolen" is irrelevant to you, right?

. I believe in low taxes and regulation so that US manufacturing can thrive. I don't believe in letting people from other countries come over and take our jobs.

 

[JSt0rm]

. I believe in low taxes and regulation so that US manufacturing can thrive. I don't believe in letting people from other countries come over and take our jobs.

Low banking regulation too?

 

[davmat787]

And it isn't just low skilled factory work being shipped out. Like I said above about my 2nd employer ago, they closed my plant down and shipped the 35 tool and die making (plus machine building) positions to Korea. There was 1,000+ years of experience at that shop and the plant was actually profitable (only one out of 15 that year before it was closed).

That sucks, I really don't like hearing examples of offshoring, especially at a personal level such as in your example. Don't get me wrong, my point was it might help a little if we had a better idea of which companies manufacturer in the US so that they can be supported better.

What really is frustrating is when a company offshores due to incompetent management/ownership and laziness, yet those are the same who profit the most. There has to be a better way.