some advice on an NSX i'm considering (prior engine repair)

[vshah]

So I found one for sale in Cali, within my budget and my favorite color. The price I've agreed on with the seller is great, except for one thing.

The seller listed a head gasket replacement among recent maintenance. When I asked him about it, he was very forthcoming and sent me the following explanation:

Here is the full story on the HG leak: I had an appointment scheduled with Jim to have the new SOS clutch put in my car. The day of the appointment, while pulling the car out of the garage, I noticed a few drops on the floor. Upon further inspection, it was a few drops of coolant. I dropped off the car to Jim and while I dropped off, I mentioned that I noticed the few drops and if he could look into the cause if any. He calls me later and says the head gasket will need to be replaced. Further into our discussion, I mentioned that I have never experienced an over heat issue with the car for the 7 years i've owned it. He explained that Acura did not place the temperature gauge in a great place in the nsx (as i have also read on the forums) so I probably didn't see a spike in my temp gauge if it wasn't a big one. So i just had him take care of it, taking every precaution to have the job performed correctly. So, while the engine was out, I asked Jim what he recommended I change as well while the engine is out. Everything you see listed in my ad, is what he suggested and I had him perform. If you like to any further details with the repair, please feel free to contact Jim.

I asked Jim Russell (well known/respected NSX mechanic in the bay area) about the repair. this is what he had to say:

I think the original cause was bad coolant tank. The machine shop determined the heads needed to be shaved. I am not sure how much they resurfaced off of heads. I am sure that it was not very much. I am also sure it raised the compression a little tiny bit. I brought up the California smog because if compression was not even or to high it would show up and likely fail smog.
Sorry a little fuzzy on details this was done over a year ago. I can tell you the car runs great every time I have seen it.

I asked the owner about the coolant tank and he responded with this:

I had long discussions with Jim while the car was in the shop. I tried to recall everything that occur on the car and explained to him that I never experienced/or saw any overheat. But I did tell him that I thought the coolant tank cracked one time and I replaced it. Let me see if I still have the receipt for it. But to my recollection, it was replaced the year before this last maintenance/repair which would put it in 2010-2011 year frame.

Several members of prime swear by Jim's work, and on the phone he knows what he is talking about (owns an NSX himself as well). The car has been driven 3000+ miles since the repair, including by my friend who went to check it out, he said it drove great. The seller has been extremely forthcoming throughout everything, we've probably emailed back and forth 30 times by now. He's sent me pictures of everything I've requested. I'm inclined to believe him and Jim when they say the repair was done well and the car has no issues now.

I'm getting a PPI and a compression test done on it today.

What are your guys' thoughts regarding the longevity of an engine with a properly repaired head gasket leak? Is it possible for a small leak like the seller described to require the heads to be shaved? Is it more likely that there was a prior overheating event that slightly warped the heads and caused the leak in the first place?

I know for a fact that two other prospective buyers passed on the car due to the HG replacement/engine repair.

Sorry for the long, rambling post, just want to get some thoughts before I move forward with this car.

Thanks,
Vivan


Some more info:
Current owner has owned since 2006
Says he has never tracked it
Previous owner was an older guy in Arizona

Here's what was done during the service:
Timing Belt
Timing Belt Tensioner
Valve adjustments
Water Pump
Head Gasket
Clutch Master Cylinder
Clutch Slave Cylinder
Engine coolant hoses
Spark plugs
Thermostat
Clamps and O-Rings
New SOS Sports clutch also installed

Here's the invoice for the service/engine repair:

 

[Jimzz]

What year is it? 3.0 or 3.2?

 

[Kaido]

I'm of no technical help here, but yeaaaaaaah NSX whoooo! :awe:

 

[vshah]

what year is it? 3.0 or 3.2?

2000, 3.2l

 

[slag]

Maybe it is just semantics, but to me, shaving the head, aka decking, is generally done to increase compression and is a performance activity, whereas truing the head just removes the high spots and makes it flat with a straightedge. Again, maybe just a regional or semantic issue.

 

[vshah]

Maybe it is just semantics, but to me, shaving the head, aka decking, is generally done to increase compression and is a performance activity, whereas truing the head just removes the high spots and makes it flat with a straightedge. Again, maybe just a regional or semantic issue.

the latter is what was done here, heads made flat to ensure good seal.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Why would the heads need machining if it was just a worn gasket?

 

[Jimzz]

If the coolant tank cracked and the head gasket went bad then assume it overheated.

3000miles is not that many to be 100% sure. But if the compression test is good and the price is right go for it.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I've never seen a reputable shop replace a head gasket without resurfacing the head, even if there was no evidence of overheating. If the car runs well and the compression and leakdown tests are good, then it should be fine.

ZV

 

[tfinch2]

I've never seen a reputable shop replace a head gasket without resurfacing the head, even if there was no evidence of overheating. If the car runs well and the compression and leakdown tests are good, then it should be fine.

ZV

Yes, but resurfacing a head just because you are going to replace a gasket != resurfacing a head because it overheated and warped.

Based on your description OP, there was an external leak. Was there an internal leak too (coolant in oil)?

 

[Viper GTS]

But if the compression test is good and the price is right go for it.

I'm inclined to say this as well, particularly since the guy who did the work is reputable in the NSX community.

Worst case find another NSX expert and get a second opinion, but you're going to be accepting some risk/issues regardless of what they say.

Sounds to me like you know enough to make an informed decision on this one vs one that may have experienced the same issue but not been corrected by an attentive owner.

Viper GTS

 

[vshah]

I've never seen a reputable shop replace a head gasket without resurfacing the head, even if there was no evidence of overheating. If the car runs well and the compression and leakdown tests are good, then it should be fine.

ZV

this is good info, thanks

Yes, but resurfacing a head just because you are going to replace a gasket != resurfacing a head because it overheated and warped.

Based on your description OP, there was an external leak. Was there an internal leak too (coolant in oil)?

I guess the unknown is whether the head was actually warped or if it was just surfaced as a routine part of Head gasket replacement as zenmervolt states is best practice. Don't know about an internal leak, will have to talk to Jim & ask him that.

 

[vshah]

if the compression test returns good and consistent numbers, is there a need for a leakdown test?

 

[tfinch2]

Also OP, not to sound like an asshole, but if you're going to blow $25-30k+ on a 13 year old weekend toy but are worrying about repair costs, you may want to rethink the purchase entirely.

 

[vshah]

Also OP, not to sound like an asshole, but if you're going to blow $25-30k+ on a 13 year old weekend toy but are worrying about repair costs, you may want to rethink the purchase entirely.

Not so much worried about repair costs as I am concerned that the car was repaired properly before.

 

[Viper GTS]

Also OP, not to sound like an asshole, but if you're going to blow $25-30k+ on a 13 year old weekend toy but are worrying about repair costs, you may want to rethink the purchase entirely.

Buying a properly cared for mechanically sound car is the intelligent thing to do regardless of the age or price. Unless the car is so incredibly rare that you take it regardless of condition there is no reason to fault him for doing proper PPI.

Viper GTS

 

[tweakmonkey]

Sounds fine to me. And the mechanic is reputable... And it's been 3000 miles. This wouldn't scare me a bit. The compression bump is minor and 91 octane will be fine.

 

[nerp]

Why would the heads need machining if it was just a worn gasket?

Very common to do that.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

How many miles does it have? Sounds to me like you could be coming out ahead in this, since they went ahead and did some engine maintenance (timing belt) that you would have had to do eventually pay for anyway.

It sucks to be the guy selling a car after putting a ton of money into repairs, but it's good to be the guy buying that car. Assuming, of course, that the repairs were done properly, which in this case it sounds like they were. If the mechanic is somewhat of an NSX specialist then the owner obviously wasn't trying to cheap out on repairs.

 

[vshah]

How many miles does it have? Sounds to me like you could be coming out ahead in this, since they went ahead and did some engine maintenance (timing belt) that you would have had to do eventually pay for anyway.

It sucks to be the guy selling a car after putting a ton of money into repairs, but it's good to be the guy buying that car. Assuming, of course, that the repairs were done properly, which in this case it sounds like they were. If the mechanic is somewhat of an NSX specialist then the owner obviously wasn't trying to cheap out on repairs.

84k miles. Indeed, what drew me to this one (other than the color, this is 1 of 44 in this exterior color) was that it won't need a $2k major service for another 6 years, and it has a brand new clutch.

compression numbers:

1: 190
2: 195
3: 195
4: 185
5: 190
6: 190

unfortunately it was done without the throttle open all the way - not sure why. i'm assuming the numbers would go up had that been done, correct?

 

[CurrentlyPissed]

84k miles. Indeed, what drew me to this one (other than the color, this is 1 of 44 in this exterior color) was that it won't need a $2k major service for another 6 years, and it has a brand new clutch.

compression numbers:

1: 190
2: 195
3: 195
4: 185
5: 190
6: 190

unfortunately it was done without the throttle open all the way - not sure why. i'm assuming the numbers would go up had that been done, correct?

If your worried about needing 2k worth of service in the next 6 years. You are looking at the wrong car.

Compression numbers look good.

 

[vshah]

If your worried about needing 2k worth of service in the next 6 years. You are looking at the wrong car.

Compression numbers look good.

there's a difference between being worried about something and preferring a car with up to date maintenance performed by a well respected mechanic who is very familiar with the car. A mechanic with NSX experience is something that just doesn't exist in Pittsburgh. Would you prefer a car with a 1 year old timing belt or one with a 6 year old belt, given that the interval is 7 years? 100% up to date service equals a seller who took good care of his car.

Thanks all, for your help.

 

[CurrentlyPissed]

there's a difference between being worried about something and preferring a car with up to date maintenance performed by a well respected mechanic who is very familiar with the car. A mechanic with NSX experience is something that just doesn't exist in Pittsburgh. Would you prefer a car with a 1 year old timing belt or one with a 6 year old belt, given that the interval is 7 years? 100% up to date service equals a seller who took good care of his car.

Thanks all, for your help.

Sure there is, but that isn't the way you are portraying yourself.

 

[Zenmervolt]

unfortunately it was done without the throttle open all the way - not sure why. i'm assuming the numbers would go up had that been done, correct?

Yes, it can only get better with the throttle open. Generally you want to see a maximum of 10% difference between the highest and lowest readings. With a low of 185 and a high of 195 you're within range.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Sure there is, but that isn't the way you are portraying yourself.

With a car as common and available as the NSX it doesn't make any sense at all to ignore potential maintenance issues.

Having a major service already done isn't just about saving money. It's also about saving time and hassle of having to schedule an appointment and then dropping off or picking up a car.

From my perspective, the OP has portrayed himself as someone who wants to avoid a potentially huge issue (an improperly repaired head gasket or a head gasket failure caused by an un-repaired underlying issue can have catastrophic results). That's not anything at all resembling attempts at penny-pinching. Especially when one of the chief benefits of the NSX is that it's as reliable as an Accord or Civic.

You may be OK with an NSX that's no more reliable than an old Ferrari, but most people would not be, regardless of their ability to manage it financially.

ZV