Some AAA results and performance hits

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
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I've been meaning to post some information concerning the performance hits when enabling adaptive AA on the X1900 series, but due to recent hardware changes a complete analysis is not possible. Fisrt off, I do not have my X1900 any longer so doing further benches is rather difficult. Of the games that I began to bench, BF2 and FEAR were first. I was meaning to bench others as well since I have a decent amount of the more recent major DX9 titles. The testing was monitored by using FRAPS and the recordings were sent to a FRAPS log. With FEAR I used the in-game benchmark.

Relevant System Hardware Specifications:

[*]X1900XTX @740/850(1700)
[*]AMD Athlon 64 4400+ Toledo
[*]DFI Lanparty UT SLI-DR Expert
[*]2x1GB G. Skill Extreme Edition DDR500 (PC4000)
[*]OCZ Powerstream 520W

Relevant System Software Specifications

[*]Windows XP 32-bit w/SP2
[*]Cat. 6.6 + Chuck Patch
[*]ATI Tray Tools
[*]ATI Tool
[*]BF2 and FEAR of course and patched to the most recent versions.

Please forgive me for not immediatedly providing specific frames as I do not have my normal computer up and running at this point in time. (Believe me, it isn't fun)

My driver settings were also the highest quality settings I could achieve minus a 6xAA setting and Vsync + Triple Buffering. Instead it was 4xAA set from the games and the Vsynce remained disabled for accurate frames.

I did three AAA (Adaptive Anit-Aliaising) settings: No AAA, Peformance AAA, and Quality AAA. (Note: In Tray Tools there is a setting that displays both "Quality" and "Quality with Trilinear". Just for curiousity's sake, I included the "Quality with Trilinear" setting in my initial testing. The difference between "Quality with Trilinear" and the normal "Quality" setting was within 1~2 frames and therefore I considered it a negligible difference.

BF2

In game settings were set to "4", a level that has to be hacked through the config files and results in an "Ultra-High" setting while in the BF2 video options. It was the absolute highest quality settings I could achieve through BF2 itself. Each simulation was done on Daqing Oilfields in Single Player Mode. Each time I traveled the same path of attack. Starting as U.S. and going towards the middle neutral bunker. I wanted to get a good mixture of chain-link fences and vast vegetation since AAA works intensely with those types of alpha textures. The chain-link fences present in the bunker provided a small amount of alpha textures and a decently heated battle as the U.S. and China sides clashed for the neutral flag. I only ran and moved in positions that were easy to recreate for each test and displayed close to the same amount of objects. After the bunker I would diagnoly make my way towards the edge of the solid fence and turn right so as to get a screen full of the higher ground covered with trees. (Note: this is where the peformance hit was felt the most throught any of the testings.)

Once again I apologize for not being able to provide exact frames at the moment and I will update my own findings once I can access my hard drive again, but I remember them within a 5~10 frame set as well as the performance hits they gave.

[*]No AAA
70~100 frames constantly.

[*]Performance AAA
65~100 constantly. I remember it was very close to a 5% decrease.

[*]Quality AAA
48~80 or 90ish. I vividly remember that this was a 25% performance decrease.

FEAR

I used the in-game benchmark for all tests. The benchmark was ran three times and averaged out to portray the average results for each specific setting. In-game settings were all maxed through the game's video options panel (no config file tweaking). Soft Shadows were off.

(All I can really remember was the average section, the middle one that displays the widest margin for the majority of the frames.)

[*]No AAA
~35-39 frames.

[*]Performance AAA
Almost identical to "No AAA". The difference was negligible and therefore I do not remember exact frames for it.

[*]Quality AAA
~45-49 frames. (Yes, I checked again and again. "Quality" AAA gives around a 10 frame increase to the X1900's in FEAR.)

It came to my conclusion that it really depends on the game whether this particular feature will hinder its performance or not.

This isn't meant to be a set-in-stone test as I did not complete many things. If other X1900 owners want to test my results with what they can get, that would be great since I am curious as to what other owners are getting. I wish I could continue some benchmarking, but I am on hold for a little bit as far as gaming goes. All of my findings are estimates that I have yet to specify, but I did want to make notice that BF2 performance can be substantially decreased by this feature while FEAR can be slightly increased. As far as what other games, maybe other X1900 owners could pitch in some of their findings for the moment.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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In Tray Tools there is a setting that displays both "Quality" and "Quality with Trilinear".
FYI - those settings are for AF, not for AA or AAA.
 

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
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Really? Why are they located with the other two options of the Adaptive AA settings? It is right in line with them on that window.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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I can't test it right now but unless something has recently changed if you click on the tray icon you'll see they're separate.

The window you describe must simply have illogical placing of the settings.

AAA has only three settings: off, performance and quality.

AF has: off, performance, quality, quality with full trilinear and high quality AF (the latter only works on R5xx boards).
 

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
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It was under the game profile setttings. BF2 and FEAR were made into profiles that I could edit. When editing there is a checkbox that says, "Enable Adaptive AA" or "Adaptive AA" or something like that. If you select it, three lower bubbles are no longer greyed out and they read from left to right, "Performance"............."Quality"............"Quality with Trilinear".

(This will look stupid, but kind of like this:)

[*]Adaptive AA

Performance *.....................Quality*..................Quality with Trilinear*
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,002
126
In that case it sounds like the label should've said "adaptive AF" not adaptive AA. That also means that you were probably controlling the AF in your tests, not AAA.

There should be another set of settings that read "off", "performance" and "quality" and those are for AAA.

If you can't see them then use the tray icon instead as they are very obvious there (and correctly labelled).
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
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Screenshots would be nice. Ive seen AAA get rid of fences insetad of applying AA to them. (think it was nitro's screenshots). Adaptive seems to blur out the alpha textures.

 

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
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I so wish I could take a screen shot of the thing.

If you can access it, right click on the Tray icon.

Go to the top or "3D profiles" or something like that.
Click on "Manage Profiles" and in the following window you should see what I was talking about.

As far as the trilinear setting you're probably right with it being more to deal with AF rather than AA. But I didn't do anything with it for my projected results. I only used it for a series of comparison to see if it did anything. Once I saw it didn't, I ignored it and only set the appropriate Adaptive AA settings.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,002
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Josh, I think you have have made a mistake.

Click.

I have highlighted the setting that controls AAA with the red arrow.

If you used any of the three settings below that arrow (i.e. performance, quality, quality with trilinear) you were actually changing the AF type, not the AAA type.
 

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
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Originally posted by: BFG10K
Josh, I think you have have made a mistake.

Click.

I have highlighted the setting that controls AAA with the red arrow.

If you used any of the three settings below that arrow (i.e. performance, quality, quality with trilinear) you were actually changing the AF type, not the AAA type.

Yes that's the screen!

Those underlying bubbles were what I made an inital comparison with when I tried to see a difference between "Quality with Trilinear" and "Quality". I should (but can't) redo the performance AAA numbers as I did match the underlying "Performance" bubble with the overlying tab selection of "Performance" and therefore made it inaccurate. Thanks for clarifying those two options in that section.

As far as the Quality AAA numbers, they are still correct as I had the underlying bubble set to "Quality" as well as the overlying tab selection. Luckily, those were the results that I found most interesting. Only when using "Quality" AAA did BF2 deliver a 25% hit and FEAR a 10fps increase.

Thanks for taking the time to propose an actual picture of the utility. Some misfortune has stumbled upon my computer and I am without basic functionality for the moment. Indeed you were right, apparantly I did make a mistake with those performance numbers. :thumbsup:
 

LittleNemoNES

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
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Welcome back from vacation, josh ;)
I Agree with your BF2 score since I use 10xSSAA and 16xHQAF and get about 60+ fps average rarely going down to 40 something. technically single card but with high AA

FEAR...something's wrong. Crossfire scaling still sucks in FEAR,BTW. Still can only use 2xSSAA cos 4x gives me <30 fps in intense scenes. However, I can do 4xPAA online.
 

TheRyuu

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2005
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Does Nvidia' Transparent SS and ATI's Quality AAA apply AA to the Alpha textures the same way???

Just wondering.
 

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
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Does Nvidia' Transparent SS and ATI's Quality AAA apply AA to the Alpha textures the same way???

Just wondering.

Not to my knowledge. Nvidia's SuperSampling Transparency AA doesn't make the chain-link fences in HL2 disappear.

I'm interested in the performance hit that Nvidia's Transparency AA delivers though as I do not remember it to be as substantial as ATI's. I'm not for sure though. I'll give this 7800GT a run with some games and see what results get brought up.

Welcome back from vacation, josh;)
It was interesting seeing some of the views displayed when I was gone. I didn't mind speaking what everyone else was thinking. Thanks for the welcome.
FEAR...something's wrong. Crossfire scaling still sucks in FEAR,BTW. Still can only use 2xSSAA cos 4x gives me <30 fps in intense scenes. However, I can do 4xPAA online
Hmmm....

Why don't you make an overclock profile in ATI Tool for one of your cards, disable Crossfire, and then play FEAR with an overclocked card rather than trying to AFR the two? That might give you better results, I haven't had the unfortunate performance you've had with my single XTX. Still, it would be nice if FEAR did scale with Crossfire better so Crossfire users could enjoy it more.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,002
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Does Nvidia' Transparent SS and ATI's Quality AAA apply AA to the Alpha textures the same way???
Yes - the algorithm is exactly the same.

However in practice ATi's version seems to lose detail quicker and doesn't seem to AA the same sorts of distances as nVidia does.
 

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
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Originally posted by: gersson
Time to see some numbers. Post your FEAR bench and tell us your settings. I will do so ASAP.

Originally posted by: josh6079
...Fisrt off, I do not have my X1900 any longer so doing further benches is rather difficult.

I wish I could, but my normal computer is in pieces.
 

redbox

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2005
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Incomplete test, but some interesting results

Wouldn't the results come after a complete test? :confused:

Now that your x1900xtx has gone the way of the dinosaur how about working on some Q vs. HQ Nvidia settings with the volt modded 7800gt. ;) If we get some water cooling on her maybe we can get close to 7900gt performance so it would be as close to modern as we could get.

We already have the 7800gt at 540/ 1300 what do you guys think it would take to reach 7900gt levels?
 

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
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We already have the 7800gt at 540/ 1300 what do you guys think it would take to reach 7900gt levels?
Four more pixel pipes.

The test is incomplete because of the Performance AAA numbers. I messed up with the AF when testing the Performance AAA so I would need to redo them. The interesting results that I was talking about in the title concern the Quality AAA and their performance increases and decreases.