Some 20 year old chick gets shot in the head, accidentally, in a church

[BladeVenom]

it takes effort to carry a gun around. It's a good 5 pounds or so, right?

LOL! My smallest is about half a pound. Most are under 2.

 

[corwin]

it takes effort to carry a gun around. It's a good 5 pounds or so, right? TO justify this inconvenience while going in public places, you have to imagine that you might need to use it. which is why the pro-gun people talk about worst case scenarios to justify their carrying around a weapon in public.

A girl got shot in church. The gun should not have been allowed in church to begin with. There actually are laws against guns in public places like churches, but the gun lobby has worked against them in recent years.

More proof you really don't know anything about guns...and of course they're carried because it's possible we'll have to use them, otherwise we wouldn't carry them...duh! And of course churches should be of limits, because we all know no criminal has ever killed a bunch of defenseless people while at church

 

[spidey07]

it takes effort to carry a gun around. It's a good 5 pounds or so, right? TO justify this inconvenience while going in public places, you have to imagine that you might need to use it. which is why the pro-gun people talk about worst case scenarios to justify their carrying around a weapon in public.

A girl got shot in church. The gun should not have been allowed in church to begin with. There actually are laws against guns in public places like churches, but the gun lobby has worked against them in recent years.

No there aren't, however there are laws the protect property rights and the church can forbid weapons if they like and post a sign.

 

[micrometers]

No there aren't, however there are laws the protect property rights and the church can forbid weapons if they like and post a sign.

In effect that doesn't really work out though since no public institution wants to alienate 2nd amendment nuts with a "no guns" sign. It becomes opt-out. The default should be no guns.

 

[kami333]

Licensed security officers = mall cop/rent-a-cop, no?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Civilians are better trained than the cops yo!

 

[spidey07]

In effect that doesn't really work out though since no public institution wants to alienate 2nd amendment nuts with a "no guns" sign. It becomes opt-out. The default should be no guns.

Make sure you support Starbucks coffee tomorrow. It's an important day to show your support and offer them some business. I'll be getting a 20 dollar gift card.

 

[momeNt]

Sure
That would be correct...

It's a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TVSTkAXg

 

[JulesMaximus]

More proof you really don't know anything about guns...and of course they're carried because it's possible we'll have to use them, otherwise we wouldn't carry them...duh! And of course churches should be of limits, because we all know no criminal has ever killed a bunch of defenseless people while at church

Right, it happens all the time.

This is as dumb as that stupid bitch who was carrying openly at a childrens soccer game in PA a few years ago.

 

[highland145]

In effect that doesn't really work out though since no public institution wants to alienate 2nd amendment nuts with a "no guns" sign. It becomes opt-out. The default should be no guns.

The bars around here are always full sans guns except illegally carried.

 

[corwin]

Right, it happens all the time.

This is as dumb as that stupid bitch who was carrying openly at a childrens soccer game in PA a few years ago.

Nothing happens "all the time"...but it can and has happened. Were they idiots in their handling? Of course they were, but why is a church any different/more "off limits" than a grocery store?

What's stupid is how they handled it, not that they had it there...open carry is a whole different story, I support concealed but open is different

In effect that doesn't really work out though since no public institution wants to alienate 2nd amendment nuts with a "no guns" sign. It becomes opt-out. The default should be no guns.

There's plenty of places that have them, they still get business, the default is if it isn't illegal then it isn't prohibited...honestly where does your paranoia come from? Is this a recent thing or have you been afraid your whole life?

 

[corwin]

It's a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TVSTkAXg

Ahh...

 

[SlitheryDee]

How in the hell can you forget the round in the barrel? Neither of those guys respected the gun enough. This kind of stuff always seems to happen to either kids who don't know enough about guns to properly respect them, or to adults who think they know so much about guns they no longer have to respect them. You can't be that nonchalant and expect to carry a gun.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Nothing happens "all the time"...but it can and has happened. Were they idiots in their handling? Of course they were, but why is a church any different/more "off limits" than a grocery store?

What's stupid is how they handled it, not that they had it there...open carry is a whole different story, I support concealed but open is different

There's plenty of places that have them, they still get business, the default is if it isn't illegal then it isn't prohibited...honestly where does your paranoia come from? Is this a recent thing or have you been afraid your whole life?

Not having them eliminates accidents completely.

Yes, they were stupid. Stupidity knows no bounds...

 

[corwin]

Not having them eliminates accidents completely.

Yes, they were stupid. Stupidity knows no bounds...

So you're all for removing everything that anybody could have an accident with? No personal responsibility...I get it, that's what's wrong with so much these days, if anyone gets hurt by anything let's just take it away from everyone, cause you know nobody can be trusted because this one guy this one time...

 

[micrometers]

The issue is the cost of negligence. Everyone is negligent. It's just that the costs of negligence vary. If I neglect to keep my tires properly inflated on my car it might burn a bit more fuel and go flat more easily.

If I fuck up in my handling of a gun it might go off and kill someone. People are always going to be careless, but guns have a particularly high cost to carelessness. Then it really does become a cost-benefit calculation about the sort of society that you want. IMO easy access to guns does not result in positive outcomes. It is easier for psychos to obtain them (Jared Loughner bought ammo on the day of the shooting) and everyday citizens will have accidents.

 

[KeithP]

The men took precautions. They walked away from the crowd in a recreation room at Grace Connection Church and into a closet.

Sounds to me like they weren't actually in the Church but were in a building next to/around the Church.

But I guess accurately reporting what happened doesn't make for a good headline.


-KeithP

 

[spidey07]

Sounds to me like they weren't actually in the Church but were in a building next to/around the Church.

But I guess accurately reporting what happened doesn't make for a good headline.


-KeithP

But the gun just accidentally went off! They were sitting there looking at it and BAM, it fired a heat seeking death bullet that would not stop until it met it's target.

No, somebody pulled the trigger. Charge him with negligent and likely reckless endangerment.

1) not treating every firearm as always loaded? check
2) Letting barrel cover something you don't intend to destroy? check
3) Not knowing target and what's beyond it? check
4) Pulling the damn trigger unless target and what's beyond it are to be destroyed? check

broke all 4.

 

[corwin]

The issue is the cost of negligence. Everyone is negligent. It's just that the costs of negligence vary. If I neglect to keep my tires properly inflated on my car it might burn a bit more fuel and go flat more easily.

If I fuck up in my handling of a gun it might go off and kill someone. People are always going to be careless, but guns have a particularly high cost to carelessness. Then it really does become a cost-benefit calculation about the sort of society that you want. IMO easy access to guns does not result in positive outcomes. It is easier for psychos to obtain them (Jared Loughner bought ammo on the day of the shooting) and everyday citizens will have accidents.

Bad analogy...with nearly the same frequency you could say not having your tires properly inflated could cause a blow out on the highway in which you lose control of your vehicle and cross the median killing a family of four in a head on collision...this is a very rare occurrence and definitely negligent, but not enough to remove the right from the overwhelming majority of people who are competent

 

[corwin]

But the gun just accidentally went off! They were sitting there looking at it and BAM, it fired a heat seeking death bullet that would not stop until it met it's target.

No, somebody pulled the trigger. Charge him with negligent and likely reckless endangerment.

But that would mean, gasp, someone was responsible and not an inanimate object!

 

[micrometers]

Bad analogy...with nearly the same frequency you could say not having your tires properly inflated could cause a blow out on the highway in which you lose control of your vehicle and cross the median killing a family of four in a head on collision...this is a very rare occurrence and definitely negligent, but not enough to remove the right from the overwhelming majority of people who are competent

So guns should be regulated similarly to cars, no?

 

[Analog]

In Michigan, that's a no-no for CCW permits:

the state’s concealed-carry law that prohibits permit holders from carrying their firearms into schools, churches, day care centers, sports arenas, bars and college dorms and buildings, among other places.

 

[Ichinisan]

Or getting a free ride when you already paid.

I'll trade you 10,000 spoons for a knife.

 

[CountZero]

I'm sorry to hear that :rose:

Yes because the thousands upon thousands of us who do carry have this happen almost daily right? You're paranoid

You intentionally carry around a deadly weapon in case you need to kill someone and you are calling out someone else as paranoid? Pot meet kettle...

 

[JulesMaximus]

So you're all for removing everything that anybody could have an accident with? No personal responsibility...I get it, that's what's wrong with so much these days, if anyone gets hurt by anything let's just take it away from everyone, cause you know nobody can be trusted because this one guy this one time...

I didn't say that. But this guy is now personally responsible for critically injuring a young girl because he chose to bring a firearm to church. If he left it at home this wouldn't have happened, that is a fact. No crimes were thwarted by his being armed that day, that is also a fact.

More people carrying guns around will mean more accidents. People are fallible.