SOLVED: Using SSD in Windows 7 / Enableing Trim / Problem running “fsutil”, guidance?

[Herkulese]

The Windows System Drive in my new build a Crucial M500 240gb SSD, and I want to utilize it as efficiently as possible.

When I first started the system, I went into bios, and saw both the SSD and Second Hard Drive listed, but upon installing Windows 7, and going into explorer, the second hard drive did not show up.
I went back into bios and realized that the drives were set to Native IDE, so I switched AHCI, since I have an SSD as a system drive, after which no drives are listed in the BIOS drive list, but they do both show up in widows, and I can now use my second data drive just as planned.

I have since, removed partitions, formatted and reinstalled Windows ,7 and am moving along with installing all other software and making the drive images after each. Be aware that I create a drive image after each install, then recover each image after creating it, to make sure that these are good images. This is how I keep Windows clean.

THE ISSUE: I want to insure that Trim is enabled and functioning properly, but whenever I run ”fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify” from the command prompt, it just returns the message that this function requires administrative privileges.

I am logged in on the administrative account, so I would think that administrative privileges would be active.

QUESTION: How do I proceed, so that I can run fsutil, and are there other things to consider when using and SSD, besides setting AHCI in BIOS, and Trim in Windows?

Thanks,
Roger

 

[Herkulese]

OK, I found an article that actually addressed Command Prompt -Administrative Privileges and how to set them.

Please verify this for me:
Click the Start Button (Orb)
Click on All Programs
Click on Accessories
Right Click on “Command Prompt”
Select Run As Administrator.

FURTHER QUESTION: Will having Trim enabled go ahead and keep my SSD clean, organized, and efficient? Are other issues to consider when running an SSD?

I did find this artical about 12 things you must do when using an SSD in Windows 7.
http://www.maketecheasier.com/12-things-you-must-do-when-running-a-solid-state-drive-in-windows-7/

Are these all important steps: For example, I am not sure of doing the Page File thing.

It looks like many of these items would be reset every time I reset an older image. If this is true, it would seem that I should go back to my initial Activated Windows Install, with video drivers, and set them there, so that they would be set for good. Then I could reinstall the few programs that I have so far, and reimage again.

I suppose I could just set them now and then make another image, as I don’t know why I would need to go back to any earlier images.


Thanks

 

[kevinsbane]

I did find this artical about 12 things you must do when using an SSD in Windows 7.
http://www.maketecheasier.com/12-things-you-must-do-when-running-a-solid-state-drive-in-windows-7/

Are these all important steps: For example, I am not sure of doing the Page File thing.

It looks like many of these items would be reset every time I reset an older image. If this is true, it would seem that I should go back to my initial Activated Windows Install, with video drivers, and set them there, so that they would be set for good. Then I could reinstall the few programs that I have so far, and reimage again.

I suppose I could just set them now and then make another image, as I don’t know why I would need to go back to any earlier images.


Thanks

1. You've done that one already
2. This is done automatically if you have an SSD.
3. No point, you have a big enough SSD.
4. Don't do this.
5. This is done automatically if you have an SSD.
6. Don't do this. The only thing you might want to do is to set a limit on the size of the page file.
7. This is probably the only actual useful piece of information you can take from the article. Hibernation is rarely needed nowadays, and the only reason I can find is if you want to switch batteries on your laptop without losing your session.
8. This is done automatically if you have an SSD.
9. Errrrr. What? Ignore this.
10. Errrrr. What? Ignore this.
11. Errrrr. What? Ignore this.
12. Errrrr. What? Ignore this.

I don't know who wrote that article. But it's out of date at best (May 2012, when SSD were a lot smaller, hence all the space-saving tips - 3, 6, 7) and outright incorrect at worst - 5). The article should be renamed "12 things I thought I had to do with my SSD to feel good about tweaking it". A third of it is actually useful, and of that third, only 1 needs tweaking for most people (hibernation).

 

[Herkulese]

1. You've done that one already
2. This is done automatically if you have an SSD.
3. No point, you have a big enough SSD.
4. Don't do this.
5. This is done automatically if you have an SSD.
6. Don't do this. The only thing you might want to do is to set a limit on the size of the page file.
7. This is probably the only actual useful piece of information you can take from the article. Hibernation is rarely needed nowadays, and the only reason I can find is if you want to switch batteries on your laptop without losing your session.
8. This is done automatically if you have an SSD.
9. Errrrr. What? Ignore this.
10. Errrrr. What? Ignore this.
11. Errrrr. What? Ignore this.
12. Errrrr. What? Ignore this.

I don't know who wrote that article. But it's out of date at best (May 2012, when SSD were a lot smaller, hence all the space-saving tips - 3, 6, 7) and outright incorrect at worst - 5). The article should be renamed "12 things I thought I had to do with my SSD to feel good about tweaking it". A third of it is actually useful, and of that third, only 1 needs tweaking for most people (hibernation).

Thank you for the help.
It is truly appreciated.

 

[Charlie98]

THE ISSUE: I want to insure that Trim is enabled and functioning properly, but whenever I run ”fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify” from the command prompt, it just returns the message that this function requires administrative privileges.

I am logged in on the administrative account, so I would think that administrative privileges would be active.

If you are running that from the command prompt, when you go to open the screen, right click on it and select 'run as administrator.' Even if you are logged in as Admin, you still have to tell it to run at a higher level.

kevinsbane is also correct... W7 takes to SSDs very well, about the only thing I do anymore is turn off Hibernation and resize the page file. Trying to run an SSD at uber efficiency is nice, but the effort to get that last 1% of performance is largely unnecessary, there is already plenty of performance.

 

[Herkulese]

If you are running that from the command prompt, when you go to open the screen, right click on it and select 'run as administrator.' Even if you are logged in as Admin, you still have to tell it to run at a higher level.

kevinsbane is also correct... W7 takes to SSDs very well, about the only thing I do anymore is turn off Hibernation and resize the page file. Trying to run an SSD at uber efficiency is nice, but the effort to get that last 1% of performance is largely unnecessary, there is already plenty of performance.

To your very good point:
I am not after uber efficiency. I just want reasonable efficency, and not to do anything stupid.
Thanks

BTW what is a good size for the Page File?

ALSO: If for some reson Trim was not set, and I set it now, will data that was deleted prior to the setting get removed, or not? If not, is ther any way to get rid of that old data?

 

[razel]

BTW what is a good size for the Page File?

There is no good Page File size for everyone. If you want to 'find out.' Set it to half a GB and let it grow.

ALSO: If for some reson Trim was not set, and I set it now, will data that was deleted prior to the setting get removed, or not? If not, is ther any way to get rid of that old data?

It will be deleted. Garbage collection works TRIM or no TRIM. Having TRIM just makes it more efficient.

 

[Herkulese]

BTW what is a good size for the Page File?

There is no good Page File size for everyone. If you want to 'find out.' Set it to half a GB and let it grow.

ALSO: If for some reson Trim was not set, and I set it now, will data that was deleted prior to the setting get removed, or not? If not, is ther any way to get rid of that old data?

It will be deleted. Garbage collection works TRIM or no TRIM. Having TRIM just makes it more efficient.

Thanks Razel,
Clear and to the point.
_______________________________

I am not sure how to ask this question, so I will just do the best that I can.

OK, when I create a disk image of my system SSD, then write that image back to the same SSD, how is it done?

Does the newly written image get written to unused space on the drive, or is the whole disk written over, including the blank space?

If only the used portion is written, and if it is written onto new space, will garbage collection get rid of the previously written image information so that that portion of the disk can be reused?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

To your very good point:
I am not after uber efficiency. I just want reasonable efficency, and not to do anything stupid.
Thanks

BTW what is a good size for the Page File?

ALSO: If for some reson Trim was not set, and I set it now, will data that was deleted prior to the setting get removed, or not? If not, is ther any way to get rid of that old data?

Per the article you linked. You didn't say anything about what make and model controller you're using, motherboard, etc. I could spawn a new issue and heated discussion about this, though: I lean to the conclusion that you'd really only want to use an SATA-III SSD in AHCI mode -- unless you want to use ISRT. Even as its own "RAID0" under ISRT, the drive should allow Windows 7 SP1 (8 and WHS11 SP1) to implement TRIM successfully.

Either you won't notice the difference between 500 MB/s and 900 or more MB/s if choosing to RAID0 two or more SSDs, or features like Samsung Magician's "RAPID-Mode" will bring you to that level anyway as an AHCI configuration.

Just make sure you've upgraded your Windows 7 64-bit(?) to SP1. It should've occurred automatically in Windows UPdate a long time ago, even if you didn't have it. I say this more than anything because of the "AF" HDD standard, and issues about alignment of SSDs.

ALSO [ADDENDUM]: Per the article, and let me say I believe KevnisBane is spot-on down center field on most of it, whether or not you do any of those things taken by themselves would depend on what you're using the computer for. I just hooked up a Sammy 840 EVO 120 to serve as my boot and system drive; I have another Mushkin 60GB on the same controller for storing volume shadow copies. And a server might have different deployments -- say as a database server, or a file server or one doing greatest duty as a media server. What you do on a workstation or standalone desktop is something else.

 

[razel]

OK, when I create a disk image of my system SSD, then write that image back to the same SSD, how is it done?

Does the newly written image get written to unused space on the drive, or is the whole disk written over, including the blank space?

If only the used portion is written, and if it is written onto new space, will garbage collection get rid of the previously written image information so that that portion of the disk can be reused?

If the disk image was an entire disk sector by sector (used and free space), clone then it is replicated as-is. All other methods will probably be written to the disk beginning to end.

On SSDs, disk layout is just logical. Physically modern SSDs will want to write to NAND based on what was least written to rather then beginning to end.

By the way, I like how you ended your OP with what could be your real name. Nice to meet you. My real name is close enough to my forum name.

 

[Herkulese]

Per the article you linked. You didn't say anything about what make and model controller you're using, motherboard, etc. I could spawn a new issue and heated discussion about this, though: I lean to the conclusion that you'd really only want to use an SATA-III SSD in AHCI mode -- unless you want to use ISRT. Even as its own "RAID0" under ISRT, the drive should allow Windows 7 SP1 (8 and WHS11 SP1) to implement TRIM successfully.

Either you won't notice the difference between 500 MB/s and 900 or more MB/s if choosing to RAID0 two or more SSDs, or features like Samsung Magician's "RAPID-Mode" will bring you to that level anyway as an AHCI configuration.

Just make sure you've upgraded your Windows 7 64-bit(?) to SP1. It should've occurred automatically in Windows UPdate a long time ago, even if you didn't have it. I say this more than anything because of the "AF" HDD standard, and issues about alignment of SSDs.

ALSO [ADDENDUM]: Per the article, and let me say I believe KevnisBane is spot-on down center field on most of it, whether or not you do any of those things taken by themselves would depend on what you're using the computer for. I just hooked up a Sammy 840 EVO 120 to serve as my boot and system drive; I have another Mushkin 60GB on the same controller for storing volume shadow copies. And a server might have different deployments -- say as a database server, or a file server or one doing greatest duty as a media server. What you do on a workstation or standalone desktop is something else.

Motherboard - Gigabyte 970A-UD3 (AM3+)
- AMD SATA Controller
- Date 11/6/2013
- Version 1.2.1.359
CPU - Phenom II X4 965
SSD - Crucial M500 340gb
Usage - Home Stand Alone / Office Apps / Sound and some Video Editing / Cad
OS - MS Windows 7 SP1 + all updates since release

If the disk image was an entire disk sector by sector (used and free space), clone then it is replicated as-is. All other methods will probably be written to the disk beginning to end.

On SSDs, disk layout is just logical. Physically modern SSDs will want to write to NAND based on what was least written to rather then beginning to end.

By the way, I like how you ended your OP with what could be your real name. Nice to meet you. My real name is close enough to my forum name.

I use EaseUS ToDo backup to do the images, and they go pretty quicly.

Again, the question: Will the previous images be tagged for cleanup? Or will these just continue to add up?
After several reimagings, the SSD shows 31.7GB full.
EDIT: I just wrote back my previous image so that I can make the new SSD settings, and the size is still 31.7 GB full.

This includes:
Windows 7 SP1 Home Premium and all updates
MS Office 2010 Home
Fairly large Bible program

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Motherboard - Gigabyte 970A-UD3 (AM3+)
- AMD SATA Controller
- Date 11/6/2013
- Version 1.2.1.359
CPU - Phenom II X4 965
SSD - Crucial M500 340gb
Usage - Home Stand Alone / Office Apps / Sound and some Video Editing / Cad
OS - MS Windows 7 SP1 + all updates since release



I use EaseUS ToDo backup to do the images, and they go pretty quicly.

Again, the question: Will the previous images be tagged for cleanup? Or will these just continue to add up?
After several reimagings, the SSD shows 31.7GB full.
EDIT: I just wrote back my previous image so that I can make the new SSD settings, and the size is still 31.7 GB full.

This includes:
Windows 7 SP1 Home Premium and all updates
MS Office 2010 Home
Fairly large Bible program

I have limited experience with backup imaging. I've done it two different ways: WHS (Microsoft) takes image backups of my client workstations daily, and I used True Image 2014 to experiment with imaging of the server OS a pool-member disks separately. I'm not sure about deleting files from the image that had been deleted from the source-drive before the most recent image was made, but initial images are "full" while subsequent "updates" to them are "incremental."

Howsoever that may be, the things I said about BIOS disk modes is correct, and it would be the OS -- Windows 7 SP1 -- which would implement TRIM successfully for AHCI disks and disks configured to be separate and standalone under RAID mode. This, of course and for many of us, seems to be correct at least for onboard Intel controllers. I don't see why it wouldn't be equally true for your particular chipset.

 

[Herkulese]

I have limited experience with backup imaging. I've done it two different ways: WHS (Microsoft) takes image backups of my client workstations daily, and I used True Image 2014 to experiment with imaging of the server OS a pool-member disks separately. I'm not sure about deleting files from the image that had been deleted from the source-drive before the most recent image was made, but initial images are "full" while subsequent "updates" to them are "incremental."

Howsoever that may be, the things I said about BIOS disk modes is correct, and it would be the OS -- Windows 7 SP1 -- which would implement TRIM successfully for AHCI disks and disks configured to be separate and standalone under RAID mode. This, of course and for many of us, seems to be correct at least for onboard Intel controllers. I don't see why it wouldn't be equally true for your particular chipset.

Are you saying that I should consider running a single drive in Raid Mode?
I don't have any problem with it. I just want to make sure that I am understanding correctly. Can you elaborate a bit on your earlier post about this?