Solid state hard drive vs. electro mechanical drive

wpshooter

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2004
1,662
5
81
Is the performance difference of a solid state hard drive worth the expense of replacing an electro mechanical hard drive ?

I am seeing the price of a Samsung 850 Pro as about $138, would this be a worthwhile investment ?

Thanks.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,486
2,363
136
If you can fit all of your stuff onto SSD, or use SSD for programs and mechanical HDD for data - then yes, absolutely. It's night and day difference.
 

coffeemonster

Senior member
Apr 18, 2015
241
87
101
SSD performance over HDDs really becomes noticeable when various programs or backround processes need to access files. Virus scanners, encryption, file transfers. HDD's get slowed to a crawl very quickly.

I have an old HP elitebook at work that frequently brings my productivity to a hault when such programs need to run. You almost never get slowed down like that on even cheap SSDs.

My work laptop is a sandy bridge i5 and my home laptop with SSD is a piledriver APU(richland). The casual observer would think that the old AMD APU is way faster than the sandy bridge i5's.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,443
15,209
136
I use my SSD for OS, apps, games, user profile as well as my most commonly-accessed documents and e-mail storage. Digital camera photos and all other non-performance-intensive stuff goes on the HDD.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,359
1,895
126
For me, it had always been a trade-off with the KISS principle. But before larger capacity SSDs seemed affordable, I had jumped on the ISRT caching bandwagon with introduction of the Intel Z68 chipset. I actually didn't think I needed it when I replaced the accelerated VelociRaptor with a 512GB Sammy 840 Pro.

But now, although my plans shifted with an afterthought accommodation to NVMe M.2 PCIEx4, and because I wanted Win7/Win10 in dual-boot with similar storage capacity either way, I came to the conclusion that there is good reason to keep open options for high-capacity slower SATA HDDs. You can get drives of 2, 3, 4TB for bulk storage. The only challenge left there is to accelerate them with caching to SSD or RAM. The PrimoCache program is a $30 one-time lifetime license with perpetual upgrade.

So you can see benchmark results for a 2TB Seagate 5400RPM Barracuda drive with sequential read-rate of maybe 12,000 MB/s just for using the RAM-caching option. With or without RAM-caching the HDD, you can cache it to SSD and I'm using a 100GB volume on my 960 Pro for that.

In discussing this for earlier threads people had started, it became clear that you could not get a benchmark to show any improvement for Primo's SSD caches, because the caching is done in "stealth" when the computer is idle. Yet, I can see the persistent hit-rate grow for accessing programs and games on the HDD. Today, the hit-rate is at 83%, and this means that 83% of the time, my Seagate Barracuda has a seq-read-rate of roughly 70 to 80% of 960 Pro NVMe spec. Not bad. And, from the Kubrick 2001 film -- "Dave? I can feel it! I can feel it! My mind is growing!"

So I've been planning to upgrade from the Seagate with this:

Crucial MX300 2TB SSD

with a $550 outlay. This is partly "techno-lust" as fellow member CorkyG has called it. I have an annual budget. This project's objective was to build the most perfect computer I could manage with a Skylake K. There is no "need." It is not likely "cost-effective." I keep sitting on the idea, because that budget also includes other wants, like a $550 BenQ 2560x1440 27" gaming monitor -- which I absolutely covet.

As a hardware addict and enthusiast, I'm pulled one way. As someone with accounting skills and a fixed income, I'm pulled the other way.

Let me think about it some more . . . . :D
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,173
524
126
Unless it's a very old, underpowered computer, it's worth it.

I replaced an HDD with an SSD recently in an older 2GB Atom netbook, and was a bit surprised by how little it actually helped performance. The system is just badly underpowered for running Windows and modern applications, and the drive wasn't the main bottleneck.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,359
1,895
126
I really cannot make up my mind on this matter of replacing my Seagate 2.5" Barracuda 128MB-buffer 5400RPM 2TB HDD with the Crucial MX300 2TB SSD.

First, there's no doubt I'm headed in that direction. No doubt at all. It's maybe 1/3 of this year's computer budget, and this is a "peripheral and upgrade-part" year.

I just can't benchmark the SSD-caching under PrimoCache. Version 3.0 may change that, but there have been no Gala announcements or promo-hypes.

It boils down to the difference between caching a ~150 MB/s seq-read device and caching a 500 MB/s SSD to an ~ 3,000 MB/s 200GB NVMe volume on my boot-system-dual-OS 960 Pro.

I don't think it would make much of an improvement. I just think it's something I will eventually do.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Windows has become so bloated that I consider a system without an SSD to be borderline unusable.

Frankly, I find that to be the case for any and every modern OS. Every. Single. One. It's not that they are bloated as operating systems, it's that there's a ton of "moving parts" and complexities that are necessary for modern features. Hosting the boot volume and OS on an HDD makes these modern features become a PITA, because the constant data movement of what is basically random access just brings the HDD to a grinding halt. I am especially impatient on computers sometimes, and it's way too noticeable after having used all modern operating systems on SSDs, I feel being forced to rely upon only HDDs would be tantamount to torture.

I have to sometimes suck it up when using VMs, and that's where the slow storage becomes even more prominent. It's painful.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,359
1,895
126
Frankly, I find that to be the case for any and every modern OS. Every. Single. One. It's not that they are bloated as operating systems, it's that there's a ton of "moving parts" and complexities that are necessary for modern features. Hosting the boot volume and OS on an HDD makes these modern features become a PITA, because the constant data movement of what is basically random access just brings the HDD to a grinding halt. I am especially impatient on computers sometimes, and it's way too noticeable after having used all modern operating systems on SSDs, I feel being forced to rely upon only HDDs would be tantamount to torture.

I have to sometimes suck it up when using VMs, and that's where the slow storage becomes even more prominent. It's painful.

[And to sm625, also . . ] Abso-tively Posilutely Must -- Yes! -- use SSD technology for the boot-system-OS. The only acceptable minimum for either program-files extension or that plus data to another drive might be an SSD-cached or Ram-cached spinner, and the bigger the spinner, I'd say the SSD-cache is the best way to go.

If the drive is always powered within the system, you choose capacity against price and speed among preferably SSDs. But somewhere in a range of single-system storage, I want storage that is persistent, even if left unpowered later for more than 6 months.

Maybe in my general-purpose Skylake PC, I want to get DVR captures from OTA or cable sources. That definitely requires a nice, roomy SATA HDD. With no caching at all.
 

w3rd

Senior member
Mar 1, 2017
255
62
101
I wouldn't even own a computer, if it wasn't on ssd.

The OP's questioned was asked about 8 years ago, and the overwhelming answer then, was "yes". Today, the better question is how/why people don't know this already? (SSD is 1000x faster.)

The only thing you use a mechanical drive for is storage. IE:

C: OS & Programs (250gb SSD)
D: Movies, Photos & Music (1tb mechanical)
 

wpshooter

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2004
1,662
5
81
Am thinking about using a Samsung 850 PRO SSD. Can anyone tell me if this is same/compatible form factor for replacing the factory HD that came in my Dell Optiplex model 980 desktop computer, i.e. is the factory HD a 3.5" drive and if so, will the smaller SSD fit properly in the HD cage ?

Thanks.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,572
10,208
126
I've been trying to re-gain one of my clients again, and help them by upgrading their Windows 7 PC that was bought at BestBuy, to an SSD, or to sell them a newer Kaby Lake custom build with an SSD and Windows 10. (They already did the Windows 10 upgrade to Windows 7, probably not intentionally, but what's done is done, I guess.)

I think that they believed the indian tech-support people over me, for some reason. I don't try to dazzle with technical jargon (as much as I sometimes spout it on here), so this client, not knowing that much about PCs themselves, I think, believed them. At least, they don't come to me for PC work anymore. Sigh. :(

I mean, I always try to "do right" by customers, but sometimes, I guess, doing right by them, and doing what they request, are different things. Which can make things complicated.

I re-formatted their P4 XP rig, after they fell for the Indian Tech-support scam, and charged them $300, $180 was parts, some new HDDs, so I could preserve their old IDE HDD in a USB2.0 3.5" IDE enclosure (not a cheap one, it was Al), so that someone "above my pay grade", could extract their business data off of the HDD. (I know nothing about extracting quicken databases.) Plus, a replacement IDE DVD drive, which even at that point was a bit hard to source.

I felt badly that I had charged them that much, I don't think that they were expecting that, but I tried to do things "professionally", and not just wiping their existing drive with their business data, but preserving it instead, which was more costly in the end. So some time later, I had obtained some decent Core2-era refurbs, and I bought a few, and gave them one. They ended up giving it away to a relative, and continued to use their P4 rig. (They seem to be the kind of person, that feels that they "paid a lot for it", so they "want to keep using it". Even though the more technologically-astute among us, know that the rig is basically scrap at this point.)

Which gets back to "doing the right thing", versus "doing what the customer wants". They WANTED me to "Fix" the P4 with XP. What I should have done initially, was refuse, and offer to sell them a Windows 7 refurb initially.

Anyways, they eventually came into an inherited Pentium dual-core (not sure what architecture, maybe Sandy, maybe Ivy Bridge), with Windows 7. Which is the box, that I wanted to try to help them get onto SSD.

They really just don't know what they're missing. (And still using the P4 rig for misc. things, I hear.)

Edit: Oh, about the "Indian tech-support guy" (Hello, this is "Veendows" calling.) This client kept re-iterating to me, that their relative's PC, that I re-formatted after having issues, and being taken by the Indian Tech-Support scam themselves, that "their IP address was infected". Because, I guess, that's what the scammer told them. So, I re-formatted the PC, and then they kept telling me that, like somehow, that was keeping them from using Netflix. Initially, I though that Netflix black-listed their IP, because of Malware detected on their PC, and that's what they meant.

I finally got a chance to talk to this friend/semi-ex-client recently, and I tried to explain to them, that you can infect a computer, at a certain IP address, but you can't infect an address itself.

I don't know what their Netflix issues were, I didn't work on-site for their client's relative, it was in another state.

Sigh. What do you do, when people are so clueless, they believe scammers, rather than someone that's been working in, on, around, etc., PCs since PCs were a thing? Frustrating.
(Edit: And seem to believe, that you don't need to "backup" anything, that HDDs last... forever? OK, maybe the old, big, slow, lower-density HDDs from the P4 era largely do.)
 
Last edited:

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,359
1,895
126
I've been trying to re-gain one of my clients again, and help them by upgrading their Windows 7 PC that was bought at BestBuy, to an SSD, or to sell them a newer Kaby Lake custom build with an SSD and Windows 10. (They already did the Windows 10 upgrade to Windows 7, probably not intentionally, but what's done is done, I guess.)

I think that they believed the indian tech-support people over me, for some reason. I don't try to dazzle with technical jargon (as much as I sometimes spout it on here), so this client, not knowing that much about PCs themselves, I think, believed them. At least, they don't come to me for PC work anymore. Sigh. :(

I mean, I always try to "do right" by customers, but sometimes, I guess, doing right by them, and doing what they request, are different things. Which can make things complicated.

I re-formatted their P4 XP rig, after they fell for the Indian Tech-support scam, and charged them $300, $180 was parts, some new HDDs, so I could preserve their old IDE HDD in a USB2.0 3.5" IDE enclosure (not a cheap one, it was Al), so that someone "above my pay grade", could extract their business data off of the HDD. (I know nothing about extracting quicken databases.) Plus, a replacement IDE DVD drive, which even at that point was a bit hard to source.

I felt badly that I had charged them that much, I don't think that they were expecting that, but I tried to do things "professionally", and not just wiping their existing drive with their business data, but preserving it instead, which was more costly in the end. So some time later, I had obtained some decent Core2-era refurbs, and I bought a few, and gave them one. They ended up giving it away to a relative, and continued to use their P4 rig. (They seem to be the kind of person, that feels that they "paid a lot for it", so they "want to keep using it". Even though the more technologically-astute among us, know that the rig is basically scrap at this point.)

Which gets back to "doing the right thing", versus "doing what the customer wants". They WANTED me to "Fix" the P4 with XP. What I should have done initially, was refuse, and offer to sell them a Windows 7 refurb initially.

Anyways, they eventually came into an inherited Pentium dual-core (not sure what architecture, maybe Sandy, maybe Ivy Bridge), with Windows 7. Which is the box, that I wanted to try to help them get onto SSD.

They really just don't know what they're missing. (And still using the P4 rig for misc. things, I hear.)

Edit: Oh, about the "Indian tech-support guy" (Hello, this is "Veendows" calling.) This client kept re-iterating to me, that their relative's PC, that I re-formatted after having issues, and being taken by the Indian Tech-Support scam themselves, that "their IP address was infected". Because, I guess, that's what the scammer told them. So, I re-formatted the PC, and then they kept telling me that, like somehow, that was keeping them from using Netflix. Initially, I though that Netflix black-listed their IP, because of Malware detected on their PC, and that's what they meant.

I finally got a chance to talk to this friend/semi-ex-client recently, and I tried to explain to them, that you can infect a computer, at a certain IP address, but you can't infect an address itself.

I don't know what their Netflix issues were, I didn't work on-site for their client's relative, it was in another state.

Sigh. What do you do, when people are so clueless, they believe scammers, rather than someone that's been working in, on, around, etc., PCs since PCs were a thing? Frustrating.
(Edit: And seem to believe, that you don't need to "backup" anything, that HDDs last... forever? OK, maybe the old, big, slow, lower-density HDDs from the P4 era largely do.)

Interesting, Larry. I've got a retirement income, and for some several years I'd thought about creating a business-presence such as yours. Whatever I imagine, I keep thinking about these same problems. It is SOO easy to use the excuse: "I'm too old to start something new." I couldn't find the time for it, anyway. I'm the live-in eldercare caretaker. . . .

As for ch33zw1z and the main question, this: given what I've seen over the last few years in developing capacity on those spinner -- yes -- definitely still of value as "storage." How I chose to integrate them crosses that boundary when one of them contains its own "Program Files [(x86)]" directories. If I can cache that drive to NVMe, it changes the ball game.

And I'm still "sitting on" my contemplations of getting an MX300 2TB disk to replace the Barracuda. $550. Torn between need, want, speed and greed.