Sold the DSLR, now looking for a compact to take to college

[996GT2]

The photography class I wanted to sign up for turned out to be full, so it looks like I'll be taking the class next year. In the meantime, I sold my Rebel XTi since I didn't want it sitting around gathering dust, so I'm looking for a compact (pocketable) camera to take to college for snapshots and such.

Currently looking at the Fuji F100fd with the large (relatively speaking) 1/1.6" SuperCCD sensor and 28-140mm 5x Optical Zoom.

Price looks decent as well. Any other suggestions besides the typical Canon A or SD series? The A series is a little too big to put in a pants pocket, and the SD doesn't seem to have the same level of features or high ISO performance as the Fuji F100fd.

 

[jpeyton]

Even though the F100d can't match the ISO performance of the F31d, it's still better than the competition.

I would still wait until Photokina before buying a camera. See what new models come out.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

I've been pleased with my Canon Sx100IS, although it falls into the hairy part of "pocketable".

 

[xanis]

What's your price range? What kind of things are you looking for in terms of zoom, ISO performance, etcetera?

 

[996GT2]

price range is <$200

Selling points for me: fits in a jeans pocket, wide angle lens, good image quality at 400 ISO and usable pictures at 800 ISO, good battery life

Less important: manual exposure control, continuous drive

So far the only camera to meet all the important points is the Fuji F series, and I was wondering if any other cameras met my criteria

 

[xanis]

What about the Nikon Coolpix S550? As far as I can tell it meets all of your requirements.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: Xanis
What about the Nikon Coolpix S550? As far as I can tell it meets all of your requirements.

Hey, thanks for your suggestion...

I did look into it and the Nikon falls short in 2 areas:

1) Small 1/2.3" CCD sensor vs the 1/1.6" in the Fuji=automatically worse performance at ISO 400 and above

Granted, the sensor in the Fuji is pretty small compared even to an APS-C DSLR sensor, but it's still quite large for a point and shoot (even larger than the sensor in the Canon G9 that costs twice as much)

2) Poor wide angle coverage at 36mm vs 28mm on the Fuji

And less importantly:
3) Nikon has smaller maximum aperture at f3.5 vs f3.3 on the Fuji. I would like to find a camera that meets my requirements and has an f/2.8 or faster maximum aperture, but the Fuji is as close as it gets with f/3.3 as far as I can tell from all the cameras I've researched so far.

Hmm...I will wait until Photokina like Jpeyton said, but it looks like I will probably end up buying a Fuji F series now unless someone can come up with another suggestion?

EDIT:
Tried to find a nice F31fd at a reasonable price, but for some reason (maybe the cult following that these cameras have accrued b/c of ISO performance)...used F31fd cameras all seem to cost more than brand new F100fd cameras.

Also, if I shoot at reduced resolution (say, 6MP) on the F100fd, will it deliver ISO performance similar to the F31fd? Or does it not quite work like that?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Also, if I shoot at reduced resolution (say, 6MP) on the F100fd, will it deliver ISO performance similar to the F31fd? Or does it not quite work like that?

If you downsize the full-res photos to 6MP with a good re-sizing tool, you should have near-identical noise to the F30/F31 at 6MP. In general, downsampling an image reduces the apparent noise.

ZV

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Also, if I shoot at reduced resolution (say, 6MP) on the F100fd, will it deliver ISO performance similar to the F31fd? Or does it not quite work like that?

If you downsize the full-res photos to 6MP with a good re-sizing tool, you should have near-identical noise to the F30/F31 at 6MP. In general, downsampling an image reduces the apparent noise.

ZV

Sounds good...but man, used Fuji F series cameras command pretty spectactular prices on eBay...so I'm still searching for one at a good price (poor college student here lol)

Must be the almost cult-like following associated with those SuperCCD sensors

 

[magomago]

why not a camera with a 1/1.7'' sensor? Something like a canon G? In reality I think you should have kept the DSLR and used it more often...its going to be near impossible to match any high quality ISO performance.

I think if you shoot downsized it will help...but the shots I've seen on lets say the F50fd...its simply too "hazy" in the first place (admittedly i haven't seen how the f100fd improve son this)
http://a.img-dpreview.com/gall...originals/dscf3075.jpg this is an example of what i'm talking about...and it is shot at iso100! It makes one really wonder what "high iso" performance really is. Even if you downsize this photo (at iso 800), there is still substantial noise. http://a.img-dpreview.com/gall...originals/dscf6091.jpg

I'm suprised that the big guns haven't tried selling an APS sensor in a P&S~ even if it cost 700 dollars, something the size of a P&S is going to be hard to get

 

[996GT2]

oops double post...see below

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: magomago
why not a camera with a 1/1.7'' sensor? Something like a canon G? In reality I think you should have kept the DSLR and used it more often...its going to be near impossible to match any high quality ISO performance.

I think if you shoot downsized it will help...but the shots I've seen on lets say the F50fd...its simply too "hazy" in the first place (admittedly i haven't seen how the f100fd improve son this)
http://a.img-dpreview.com/gall...originals/dscf3075.jpg this is an example of what i'm talking about...and it is shot at iso100! It makes one really wonder what "high iso" performance really is. Even if you downsize this photo (at iso 800), there is still substantial noise. http://a.img-dpreview.com/gall...originals/dscf6091.jpg

I'm suprised that the big guns haven't tried selling an APS sensor in a P&S~ even if it cost 700 dollars, something the size of a P&S is going to be hard to get

Well, I was put off by the high cost of engry on many of the G cameras...the G9 is selling for $400+ regularly and that's nearly as much as an XTi...

I don't really regret selling my XTi though, I made about $300 profit on it (long story, I got a super deal). But to let the SLR sit around for a year while I'm at school isn't something I want to do, so I plan to get a new SLR once I get through my first year or two and have more time to devote to photogrpahy. By then an XTi would be pretty obsolete anyway, so I didn't feel it was worth keeping.

I'll look into the G cameras and see if I can find them for a good price...they're a bit on the large side, but definitely more portable than an SLR (which is pretty inconvenient for everyday snapshots).

As far as the lack of a P/S with an APS-C sensor...it would be pretty hard to design a compact camera around such a large sensor, since such a sensor requires a correspondingly large lens to make use of the larger sensor (and large image circle). Even the smallest SLRs today (Olympus E-420 with a pancake lens) are far from comparable to compact P/S cameras in terms of pocketability even with thin prime lenses. To make an APS-C point and shoot with a ZOOM lens that small is an even harder task, especially one that can shoot at fast apertures of f/2.8 or more and doesn't suffer from excessive distortion at the wide angle end. Even if producing such a lens (which would require very advanced optics) was commercially feasible, it would no doubt be very expensive, perhaps going into the $1000+ range. At that enthusiast price range, the demand for DSLRs hugely overwhelms any demand for a point and shoot. Then there are other factors like integrating a fast AF system, putting in a sufficiently large battery, and having room for all of the controls. Definitely not an easy task to accomplish even at the $1000 price range.

Some manufacturers have put APS-C sensors in non SLR cameras, though. Sony has done so with the DSC-R1, but it was bulky and very expensive.

 

[magomago]

well let me re adjust...something comparable would be nice Obviously I don't expect canon SD size, but maybe a fatty A70 I think Olympus is moving in that direction with its micro 4/3rds...

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: magomago
well let me re adjust...something comparable would be nice Obviously I don't expect canon SD size, but maybe a fatty A70 I think Olympus is moving in that direction with its micro 4/3rds...

Yeah, I think that might happen with a P/S camera carrying the form factor of a Powershot G5 or something, but definitely not Canon SD series (at least not anytime soon).

I tried looking at used Canon G cameras...all ridiculously expensive. A USED 5 year old, 5 MP Canon G5 costs $150+ on ebay, and for about $50 more I could just get a brand new Fuji F50fd or F100fd. Besides, the G5 isn't that portable. I saw the DPReview comparison images of the G5 vs the Sony DSC-V1 (which I used to have), and the G5 was a good 25% larger than the DSC-V1 that I already considered on the large side of pocketable.

G7s and G9s are smaller, but also carry correspondingly higher price tags (G7 is at least $250 at the moment, with most going for $300+)

 

[magomago]

well then...aren't you starting to answer your own question? Size is a huge factor for you - enough that it seems IQ will take a back seat. Btw, I have an f31fd, and while the performance is nicer...I don't think it is THAT much better [especially when compared to a dslr at similar iso settings]. IMO the fact that it is 6 MP as opposed to a ridiculous 12 MP on a sensor that tiny probably plays a bigger role in its IQ~ and you can still find relatively decent quality in other cameras that are about 6MP. In that situation, you should be able to find a nice 6 MP P&S that will provide similar quality for cheap because many people move up thinking it is all about the MP (my friend just got in on the refurbed canon deal - 100 bucks for a SD1000 and some of my friends were convinced it was better than my K100D because it had more MP) so it won't be too hard to find a decent 6MP out there.
Besides if you will go back to a DSLR later on...then your decision is pretty much made~ size over IQ. Go grab a f50fd or f100fd (although maybe the IQ of the f100fd is better or they use more advanced algorithms, b/c the f50fd is pretty horrible IMO), or go get a used 6MP P&S