Solar wind and refreshing of hydrogen on earth ?

[William Gaatjes]

In the "can you store electricity" thread, there was this post by metafor and it got me thinking.

The reason that negative charges are usually associated with a corresponding positive charges is because for the most part, most naturally occurring elements are electrically neutral. To create a voltage, we have to then separate the positive and negative particles. But that doesn't mean they can't exist without the other. You can create a current with just electrons (lightning). You can't create a current with just protons unless you're talking alpha decay or firing entire atoms.

Here are my thoughts :

There is an significant electric field between the earth and the upper sky. Continuously fed by the solar wind providing free electrons and ions. The only strange question remaining then is where do all these electrons and ions end up ? If the earth has been bombarded with hydrogen and helium ions for millions of years, where do all these electrons and even ions(single protons in the case of hydrogen) end up ? I would think reduction or increase of cloud formation is a possible suspect and fueling hydrogen to the earth where it will mix with ionized oxygen(meaning a single oxygen atom and not the general occurring O2 because of photodissociation) to form H2O or watermolecules.

From not so new research (i think by NASA and has been around give or take 15 years ) by the way, sprites, blue jets, pixies, gnomes and elves have been discovered (what is in a name ). Or lighting strikes (and EMP pulses creating a conduct to travel from the ionosphere down to the clouds) going up from the clouds to the ionosphere and above. This can mean there is a depletion of electrons or lonely protons arriving or that a surplus of electrons are arriving. Thus we get a fresh new amount of hydrogen from the sun in the upper sphere or electrons. And perhaps can be captured in by the magnetic field lines of the earth to be released at the magnetic poles of the earth. Or can be directly be captured in by the gravity pull of the earth.

I would think the solar wind from our sun can vary in different compositions from time to time. And that this perhaps can greatly effect the cloud formation on the earth. Combine that with a burst of energetic cosmic ray particles and we have an increase of the most potent greenhouse gas there is. Water vapour.

From NASA :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HAIN4BVwOA

And a quick look up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning

positive lightning or lightning where a positive charge is carried.
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/jetstream//lightning/positive.htm

What is this positive lightning made up of ? It has to be positively charged ions i assume?

EDIT:
Why i think this a recombination of an electron and a proton ?

emission nebula: A type of nebula that shines by emitting light when electrons recombine with protons to form hydrogen atoms. The electron frequently approaches the proton in steps emitting energy as light as it gets pulled in. In one of the most common "steps," the recombining electron emits a photon of red light. Since many atoms in the nebula do this all at once, the nebula appears red in color. This type of nebula is created when energetic ultraviolet light from a hot star shines on a cloud of hydrogen gas, stripping away electrons from the atoms (ionization). The free electrons can then begin the process of recombination. Plural of nebula: nebulae.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/lib/glossary.html

An hydrogen atom is capable of emitting red light and most of those upward going lightning strikes appear red in color.

Is there by the way any news on the cosmic ray particle connection and cloud formation from Henrik Svensmark ? The last news i received was that the theory he and his fellow scientists proposed seem to become acknowledged by experiments at CERN.

 

[silverpig]

Positive and negative charges are always paired up. The universe is neutral to one part in 10^60 or something like that, and the sun sends a lot of protons our way too.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Positive and negative charges are always paired up. The universe is neutral to one part in 10^60 or something like that, and the sun sends a lot of protons our way too.

That makes sense that our universe is electrically balanced .
But it seems a lot of situations are happening in our universe to keep those charges locally separate or unbalanced. Which i think is a good thing because otherwise we would probably not exist. A bit of topic, but interesting to note : I do think that electrical and magnetic forces are important to the formation of nebula's and galaxies as is gravity. maybe not as much as gravity at first, but when the electrical and magnetic forces become dominant, these may very well have something to say about the final structure. But i am wondering off.

Here is what i was thinking :
But the solar wind is energetic enough to send those charges away separately. Combine that with natures violent particle accelerators below, in and above the ionosphere and cosmic rays(particles), UV radiation energetic enough to strip electrons of atoms, the chance increases that hydrogen can be formed and that H2O can be formed.
Gravity can pull it down easier since it is a more concentrated mass (combined masses of 3 atoms on a smaller scale when compared to being separated and having more distance between all three atoms).
The electrical polarization of an H2O molecule may also be an important factor. I am not sure but from reading it seems the ionosphere is polarized, i am not sure about this though. Now if this polarization of the ionosphere is that the H2O molecule are pushed and pulled down towards the earth, and gravity is doing it's work as well, it just might be enough, increasing the chance enough to make a difference because of an increase in probability. It is just a thought, i do not know if it is correct.
From a different perspective, there could also be an increase of destroying those same newly formed atoms during this increase, balancing the end result

There are questions i like to ask you :

Protons have more mass then electrons right (1836* or something, i am getting older :\) ?
How much time would an electron need to reach the earth when expelled from the sun ?
How much time would an electron need to reach the earth when expelled from the sun when expelled during a solar flare ?

How much time would an proton need to reach the earth when expelled from the sun ?
How much time would an proton need to reach the earth when expelled from the sun when expelled during a solar flare ?

UV radiation(photons) would just take around 500 seconds in space from the sun to the earth.

Do you have any idea how to calculate this ?

because on the time scales that atoms function, all this just might make a big difference.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Although i am always cautious using wikipedia i will for the ease of use rely on it for now and try to confirm it later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind

Emission

The total number of particles carried away from the Sun by the solar wind is about 1.3 × 1036 per second.[16] Thus, the total mass loss each year is about (2–3) × 10−14 solar masses,[17] or 6.7 billion tons per hour. This is equivalent to losing a mass equal to the Earth every 150 million years.[18] However, only about 0.01% of the Sun's total mass has been lost through the solar wind.[19] Other stars have much stronger stellar winds that result in significantly higher mass loss rates.

If only a small part of that mass is arriving as H molecules and is combined with oxygen which comes from the earth itself(according to wikipedia oxygen is the third most abundant element in the earth crust), that would explain a lot.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Found some links :

http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/SolarWind.shtml

http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=2569

http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=46875

http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=33273

In general the speed of the overall solarwind seems to be between 800 kilometers to 100 kilometers per second when in proximity to the earth. i do not know the speed when it actually hits the ionosphere.

The protons seem to arrive within 1 to 2 hours.

Electromagnetic radiation such as UV light and x-rays travels in 8 minutes.

I think i can assume the electrons will fall between these numbers.

Then there are fast solar winds and slow solar winds. Which can interact.

But i still wonder what the composition might be.
Are the protons and electrons evenly distributed or are their situations where the electrons or protons form a more condensed mass locally. When the solar wind travels long enough, this all would diffuse and combine creating stellar hydrogen in the process, at least that is what i think. maybe i am wrong so please correct if that is the case.