Solar Power

[Meuge]

With the cost of solar panels declining, and the efficiency approaching 40-50%, installing solar panels on your roof seems less and less like a hippie fantasy, and more like a valid option for reducing your electrical bill... something that is likely to attract more people than the concept of cleaning up the environment.

Recently, California unveiled a plan to subsidize installation of solar panels on rooftops of over 1 million houses, with the proposed target of generating about 3 gigawatts of electricity (or the equivalent of 3 large nuclear power plants). This plan would cost the taxpayers about 50c/month in additional charges on their electricity bill.

I'd like to hear some input on the issue, with regards to solar power as a whole, as well as the concept of government-subsidized solar power in particular.

 

[EatSpam]

I'd love to get some solar panels, but unfortunately, the panels that I have found are very costly. Illinois isn't offering any incentives, either.

 

[Meuge]

I was pricing them for my parents' house and they come out to about $8000 altogether, including installation. However, they would pay for themselves in only a few years (5-7). The bigger problem for me was the fact that the waiting lists for good panels reach into the late 2008.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Meuge
With the cost of solar panels declining, and the efficiency approaching 40-50%, installing solar panels on your roof seems less and less like a hippie fantasy, and more like a valid option for reducing your electrical bill... something that is likely to attract more people than the concept of cleaning up the environment.

Recently, California unveiled a plan to subsidize installation of solar panels on rooftops of over 1 million houses, with the proposed target of generating about 3 gigawatts of electricity (or the equivalent of 3 large nuclear power plants). This plan would cost the taxpayers about 50c/month in additional charges on their electricity bill.

I'd like to hear some input on the issue, with regards to solar power as a whole, as well as the concept of government-subsidized solar power in particular.

Once I buy a house in the next few years, I'm going to be installing solar panels on my roof as well. If you get enough of them, you can run your meter backwards.

 

[EagleKeeper]

CA wants to get people to use solar; However; the manufacturing capacity in the US does not exists to allow people to meet the CA targets; let alone the needs for the rest of the country.

 

[Genx87]

Meauge, do you have any links to pricing information on these things?
I have to get the roof replaced due to hail damage and if I can get it done within the cost of the insurance claim I would.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Meuge
I was pricing them for my parents' house and they come out to about $8000 altogether, including installation. However, they would pay for themselves in only a few years (5-7). The bigger problem for me was the fact that the waiting lists for good panels reach into the late 2008.

How much energy did these panels generate?

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
CA wants to get people to use solar; However; the manufacturing capacity in the US does not exists to allow people to meet the CA targets; let alone the needs for the rest of the country.

Probably best to call up the Chinese... I'm sure they'd make our solar panels for us.

 

[alien42]

solar power corporations are finally getting a good valuation on the market too. check out DSTI for reference.

 

[cliftonite]

I think NJ offers 70% rebate on solar panels.

 

[dullard]

I live in an area of extremly cheap electricity (Nebraska). Electricity is nearly the cheapest of the whole nation. For example, in my large apartment (completely electricity), I averaged about $50/month in electricity. In my 2000 sq ft house, I average $75/month in electricity, but I do have a natural gas furnace and a large outdoor spa that takes a lot of electricity in winter. So, if I bump that up to $1000/year lets do the cost analysis.

I have a 6% loan for the down-payment of my house, so the $8000 panels would be at 6% interest rate. Suppose the panel produced all the electricity I use, I'd save $1000/year. At a savings of $1000/year, they'll pay for themselves in just over 11 years (assuming no maintenance costs). But what if they only produce half of what I have to purchase (since it is cloudy nearly all winter here)? Then it'll take 55 years to pay it off (assuming no maintenance costs). 55 years really doesn't sound like a good investment.

So it all boils down to how much energy we'd get out of these $8000 panels.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: dullard
I live in an area of extremly cheap electricity (Nebraska). Electricity is nearly the cheapest of the whole nation. For example, in my large apartment (completely electricity), I averaged about $50/month in electricity. In my 2000 sq ft house, I average $75/month in electricity, but I do have a natural gas furnace and a large outdoor spa that takes a lot of electricity in winter. So, if I bump that up to $1000/year lets do the cost analysis.

I have a 6% loan for the down-payment of my house, so the $8000 panels would be at 6% interest rate. Suppose the panel produced all the electricity I use, I'd save $1000/year. At a savings of $1000/year, they'll pay for themselves in just over 11 years (assuming no maintenance costs). But what if they only produce half of what I have to purchase (since it is cloudy nearly all winter here)? Then it'll take 55 years to pay it off (assuming no maintenance costs). 55 years really doesn't sound like a good investment.

So it all boils down to how much energy we'd get out of these $8000 panels.

A reasonable output for a $10k setup is probably in the range of 7-10kWh/day... or about $30-50 worth of electricity at 0.15c/kWh. Of course, it depends on so many factors that it's hard to tell... but obviously the size of your roof, the angle, and the climate all have huge effects. I've seen systems that produce as low as 5kWh to as high as 30-40kWh/day.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Meauge, do you have any links to pricing information on these things?
I have to get the roof replaced due to hail damage and if I can get it done within the cost of the insurance claim I would.

When I get home from work I'll try to dig up my browser history to get you the links.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Meuge
A reasonable output for a $10k setup is probably in the range of 7-10kWh/day... or about $30-50 worth of electricity at 0.15c/kWh.

That is the killer right there for me. In winter, electricity here is ~5 cents/kWhr, in the summer it is ~8 cents/kWhr. So I'd save less than half your savings, it'll save me ~$15-$25/month. At that rate, the interest alone to buy the panels would never be regained.

Those high efficiency panels would still need to double the efficiency or halve their cost to be worthwhile for me.

 

[Aimster]

If you generate more electricity than you use.

you get money

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Meuge
A reasonable output for a $10k setup is probably in the range of 7-10kWh/day... or about $30-50 worth of electricity at 0.15c/kWh.

That is the killer right there for me. In winter, electricity here is ~5 cents/kWhr, in the summer it is ~8 cents/kWhr. So I'd save less than half your savings, it'll save me ~$15-$25/month. At that rate, the interest alone to buy the panels would never be regained.

Those high efficiency panels would still need to double the efficiency or halve their cost to be worthwhile for me.

Well, the cost is largely a factor of supply vs. demand really. With 2-3 year waiting lines, I can imagine that the price premium on the panels is gigantic.

But in your case, I would think that state/federal subsidies would help. How would you feel if you could dedict up to 50% or your property taxes or 50% of the total cost of the panels, whichever is lower?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Genx87
Meauge, do you have any links to pricing information on these things?
I have to get the roof replaced due to hail damage and if I can get it done within the cost of the insurance claim I would.

When I get home from work I'll try to dig up my browser history to get you the links.

Cool, send them in a PM to me

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Meuge
But in your case, I would think that state/federal subsidies would help. How would you feel if you could dedict up to 50% or your property taxes or 50% of the total cost of the panels, whichever is lower?

I'm assuming the property tax would be a one time deal. A 50% deduction of $3000 would be $1500 deducted. At ~40% tax rate (federal+state), that'll save me $600. It still is short of the $4000 savings I'd need to actually start considering it. Solar power is a great thing, but for many people it just isn't ready yet for prime time.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Aimster
If you generate more electricity than you use.

you get money

Many public utility commissions are mandating that the power companies buy your excess at the market rate.

 

[BrownTown]

i wonder what it costs to produce 3000 megawatts of power using solar panels. Probably alot more then it costs to run a couple of nuke units. So far I have seen no type of solar panel which produces energy cost effectively.

 

[HombrePequeno]

I'm not sure how cost effective these would be in Seattle.

/me hasn't seen the sun in weeks.

 

[JS80]

Anyone ever wonder what the repair and maintenence costs associated with solar panels are?

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
i wonder what it costs to produce 3000 megawatts of power using solar panels.
Probably alot more then it costs to run a couple of nuke units. So far I have seen no type of solar panel which produces energy cost effectively.

Are you mad? Most commercially available roof systems will break even in under 10 years, and some in under 5. So what were you saying about cost-efficiency?

Of course if you talk about states where electricity is 0.05/kWh, that's one thing... but for the more energy-hungry states, where electricity ranges from 0.15-0.2/kWh the benefits are proven, tested, and undisputable.

3000 megawatts ~ 3 VERY large nuclear power plants. The build/operation costs of 3 nuclear plants is actually likely to be more than that.

At 15c/kWh, 3000MWh = $450 million/year.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: JS80
Anyone ever wonder what the repair and maintenence costs associated with solar panels are?

They are metallopolymers. Anything that damages them would likely also damage regular roofing. Obviously if you get 1-inch hail frequently, they're probably not the best idea, but otherwise the only maintenance cost is having to wash your roof a couple of times a year.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: JS80
Anyone ever wonder what the repair and maintenence costs associated with solar panels are?

They are metallopolymers. Anything that damages them would likely also damage regular roofing. Obviously if you get 1-inch hail frequently, they're probably not the best idea, but otherwise the only maintenance cost is having to wash your roof a couple of times a year.

I'm thinking more than the panels itself. Like the converter or something. Short circuit? I'm a noob.