Softmodded a 5800U to a FX2000...or more???

[Duvie]

Test system...

p4 2.4c@3.4ghz (283fsb) 1gb 388mhz ddr
Abit IC7 i875
36.7gb Raptor drive
GeforceFX 5800U
Radeon 8500DV AIW


Run All Summary ***** ATI 8500DV AIW***

---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 6.899

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 22.14

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 41.21

---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 10.36

---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.196

---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 5.807



Run All Summary ***Geforce FX 5800U***

---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 17.06

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 69.06

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 50.42

---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 14.55

---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 18.47

---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.967




Run All Summary ***Softmodded 5800U to ~FX2000***

---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 30.43

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 174.4

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 155.4

---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 35.03

---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 49.00

---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 53.20

____________________________________________________________________

Results Chart:-----ATI 8500 DV------5800U-------SQFX2000+-------(% increase over 5800u)

3dsmax-02-----------6.899------------17.06----------30.43--------------+78.4%

drv-09----------------22.14------------69.06----------174.4--------------+152.0%

dx-08-----------------41.21------------50.42----------155.4--------------+208.2%

light-06---------------10.36------------14.55----------35.03--------------+140.8%

proe-02---------------9.196------------18.47----------49.00--------------+165.3%

ugs-03----------------5.807------------9.967----------53.20--------------+433.8%

____________________________________________________________________











now those scores are screamin higher plus according to this spec site.....
Specview test results (look at the FX4000 below)

I pretty much beat all the fx3000's on systems there...I wonder what the difference is....

Also this card has a badass cooler on it so may test it higher later.....

Very simple process....I can give anyone instructs if they want to do it and save themselves anywhere from 500 to a 1000 dollars....

 

[PrayForDeath]

And how were you able to softmod a desktop Graphics card into a Proffessional Graphics card???!

 

[VisableAssassin]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
And how were you able to softmod a desktop Graphics card into a Proffessional Graphics card???!

soft mod is normally a BIOS flash...where as if you have to go the old school GF2 route...you gotta do some hard moddin

 

[Duvie]

Actually it is about pacthing the forceware drivers and then installing them.....No bios flash....

Pretty simple actually....

Problem is there are no way to patch the 50 and 60's series of drivers, so this may be the last line of cards this may be able to be done to (softmod that is)....Everything may have to be a hardware mod from now on. Certified drivers for many of the CAD apps are still low enough to make this a screamin deal for added performance.

Basically every chipset (Geforce FX) is a Quadro card by nature but identification by the drivers does not turn these items on in the driver settings to be used. You have to force recognition to a quadro card. I am a FX2000 cause of mem and core speeds are similar to that of the Quadro FX2000.

The specviewperf scores seem to confirm I am that and slightly above....Eeven visual modeling performance is phenomenally greater in ADT 204 for me....


Here are my scores with the card OC'd to 525/1050

Run All Summary

---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 30.86

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 175.9

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 156.7

---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 34.98

---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 49.93

---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 54.78


Here it is back at 3.5ghz with 1.6 vcore...

Run All Summary

---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 31.12

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 176.1

---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 158.3

---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 36.27

---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 48.78

---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 52.04

 

[PrayForDeath]

Problem is there are no way to patch the 50 and 60's series of drivers, so this may be the last line of cards this may be able to be done to (softmod that is)....Everything may have to be a hardware mod from now on.

Then what drivers are you using right now? Detonator 4.xx?

 

[SickBeast]

Yeah, that's the same problem I'm having with my 9700PRO softmodded to a FireGL X1; I'm stuck using drivers from last December. I would prefer a hardmod if it would allow me to use the latest drivers. At this point I'm not buying any new hardware if it means using outdated drivers. As fussy as I am, I want to be able to game AND do CAD.

 

[nRollo]

What does this do (if anything) for your gaming fps?

 

[SickBeast]

Well, with my 9700PRO softmod, my 3Dmark03 score only dropped 1% or so. That said, I ran into a bunch of compatibility issues, especially in OpenGL games. I'm fairly confident that with the latest driver set, one could game and CAD quite nicely. I have read that the professional cards only lost a few percent in most cases in gaming.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath

Problem is there are no way to patch the 50 and 60's series of drivers, so this may be the last line of cards this may be able to be done to (softmod that is)....Everything may have to be a hardware mod from now on.

Then what drivers are you using right now? Detonator 4.xx?

I am using the Dets 45.23.....May try 45.28 as well as 45.33, but for now it works....

It also appears my 3dmark scores are in line and FS2002, NBA Live 2003, and UT2003 all play just fine...That is the extent of my gaming. was never tryingto mix gaming with this card. Strictly a CAD card without taking it in the shorts with the premium......

If the hardmod is no that difficult I would think about doing it to run latest driver sets. I will look into that...

 

[Duvie]

Pricewatch has the FX2000 as 1130 at its lowest. It is the most comparable since it has 128mb of DDR2, and 128bit memory addessing....

The FX3000 is about 1330's but has 256mb od DDR2 (help in larger more complexed textured models), and 256bit memory addressing. So why it still has more advantaes my scores show I am ballpark...


All of this and I paid 185 shipped for the 5800 card

 

[MDE]

What brand is the 5800U?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: MDE
What brand is the 5800U?

Inno3d I believe...no markings on the card that I can see from the big heatpipe...

Very nice though as there is no whining up of the little heatsink and the much larger fan that sits on the side is lowe rin db then my cpu fan or some of my case fans. unnoticebale with side on even in looping 3dmark...

 

[Avalon]

So, Duvie...I'm curious.
What exactly are the changes of turning a 5800U or a 9700Pro into a CAD version type card? I know that CAD performance skyrockets, but what actual technical changes take place that cause this massive increase in CAD performance? I was wondering if anyone could explain this to me.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Avalon
So, Duvie...I'm curious.
What exactly are the changes of turning a 5800U or a 9700Pro into a CAD version type card? I know that CAD performance skyrockets, but what actual technical changes take place that cause this massive increase in CAD performance? I was wondering if anyone could explain this to me.

I can not speak for the 9700pro card or any ati card as I have not done the research...The fact is the gpu or vpu is exactly the same in the geforce Fx line of cards regardless if it is a Quadro workstation card or one of the gaming cards. The trick is the software hacking the protection and forcing the software to view the card as the quadro so that the features will be enabled by the software drivers....
It is so simple and only highlights the fact the premium paid for these cards is so over-rated even if you figure the cost of certifaction and tech support. The fact is many of the certified drivers for many of the apps are several series behind latest 61.x line of drivers.


The driver mainly recognizes the fx card as an equivalent Quadro card based on the reported mem/core speeds. The 5800u with 500/1000 is the rated speed of the FX2000 and thus why after the hack the card is recognized in device manager and all apps that read video card as being a FX2000. I believe the 5800 non ultra is supposed to be the FX1000 card cause of the 400/800 mem/core speed.

I think the 5700U card gets recognixed as a FX1100....

the 5200 or something is seen as the FX500 card and so on....

Basically Nvidia does and did not make a separate gpu for the NV30 line for the quadros...It is the same with just some protection done in software and bios to disable those things. The hacks just reverse it so that full functionality is released.



The only thing I have realy seen is the fact the 5900XT does not fully convert to a FX3000, as some other thing is missing that does not activate. The 5800 appears to be the best in my opinion since it has been the one most sucessfully tested to work and perform like an FX2000 if you had it side by side. The FX5900xt in some circle after soft quadro performs worse then mine and even gets outperformed by a FX1100 side by side....

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Pricewatch has the FX2000 as 1130 at its lowest. It is the most comparable since it has 128mb of DDR2, and 128bit memory addessing....

The FX3000 is about 1330's but has 256mb od DDR2 (help in larger more complexed textured models), and 256bit memory addressing. So why it still has more advantaes my scores show I am ballpark...


All of this and I paid 185 shipped for the 5800 card

Wow! Now that's what I call savings! I bet it feels great knowing you got a $1100 card for $185.

 

[Duvie]

Some of the benefits of true Quadro FX line can be things like 2 DVI outputs versus 1 vga + 1 DVI like most of the gaming cards. That may be package specific but I will be testing shortly dual monitor performance in opengl work here shortly...1 DVI flat panel and 1 CRT since those are the outputs I have available.

 

[Avalon]

The trick is the software hacking the protection and forcing the software to view the card as the quadro so that the features will be enabled by the software drivers....

So I take it that it is these features that you unlock to give great CAD performance. Do these features have a name? This is all very interesting indeed. Good luck with the testing Duvie.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Avalon

The trick is the software hacking the protection and forcing the software to view the card as the quadro so that the features will be enabled by the software drivers....

So I take it that it is these features that you unlock to give great CAD performance. Do these features have a name? This is all very interesting indeed. Good luck with the testing Duvie.

Yeah they are called quadro features...Go look at the specs of the quadro card and the added features are clearly listed and differ from the 3d gaming cards...





Here are some instruction of the exact rpocedure I used and it worked first time flawlessly....


First thing is go to www.guru3d.com and download the Rivatuner20RC143NY.zip file and the Forceware Driver 45.23....Throw in Driver Cleaner as well for removing old drivers thoroughly....


1) Go to www.guru3d.com

2) Download Detonator Forceware drivers version 45.23 for winxp/2000

3) Download RivaTuner20RC143NY.zip

4) Download DC3Setup (Driver cleaner)


5) create a folder and place all of these items in them.....

6) unzip and install RivaTuner....

7) unzip and install driver cleaner but don't run yet....

8) extract the 45.23 file into the folder you created...


9) Go to c:/program files/Riva Tuner/PatchScripts/Nvidia (leave open for abit as we have 4 patches to do)

10) then go into the NVstrap Antiprotection folder and double click the win2k file. A pop up will occur...hit continue...then in the next pop-up browse to the folder you created with the extracted driver file. Then click the corresponding file and open...

11) next go into SoftQuadro and click w2k file and direct it to the same folder...

12) next go into the AnisoBoosterOpenGl folder and do the same as the other 2...

13) Finally go into the DetonatorFXAntiprotector folder and do the same....


14) don't reboot yet....launch the driver cleaner program and pick nvidia and remove the existing files....may have to hit clean a couple of times until it can't find any files left.

15) go to My computer...right click....properties....hardware tab...device manager....under display adapter click the nvidia FX5800U card and right click to uninstall....At reboot prompt reboot...

16) at startup it will find vga device...hit cancel....

17) go into the folder you extracted and patched the 45.23 drivers and run the setup....reboot when asked and when you re-enter it should be identified in the device manager as well as the rivatuner main tab as a Quadro FX2000 card...


Let me know if that works for you...it didi for me....I can help him with further settings later.....




He should try to run Specviewperf 7.1.1 ( 7.1 w/ patch)first before mod so we can see the chnages and see if everything looks right. You should see big number changes like mine but not necessarily the same numbers as cpu speed, chipset, and system ram speed can play a part in this...go to www.spec.org to download...

 

[Avalon]

Wow, thanks Duvie
I'll test this out as soon as I can.

 

[tomwxyz]

I followed your instructions with my Gainward FX 5700 Ultra and was successfull (sort of). The system
sees the card as a Quadro FX 1100, Rivatuner sees it as the quadro also. The problem is that in Pro/E
the background for the windows is transparent........ You can't see anything but the Windows background, any new window that opens into this space doesn't clear when it is closed, it leaves it's graphics behind.

I did the mods on Friday and this was the result. This morning ( Monday) when I started the system the display didn't boot at all, I just got some sort of "patchwork" pattern on my screen.

I have changed it back to the stock drivers which work fine until I have more than a single part open. I then lose my graphics accelerartion.

Do you know or someone else out there if there is some setting in Rivatuner that I can change to fix the transparency and bootup problem?

I have used the 45.23 driver for Windows XP.

My system specs:

P4 3.2Ghz 800fsb
ASUS P4P800 mbd
Windows XP pro
(4 X 512) Geil 3200 DDR
Gainward FX5700 Ultra w/256 Mb

 

[Duvie]

Are you running 2 monitors???

Go to www.guru3d.com and ask the questions there as they are quite knowledgeable....

Also post your spec scores please if you can run it...

 

[rbV5]

Nice, that 5800u looks like its going to workout very well. Great job!